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Author Topic: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]  (Read 59866 times)

AdamJ

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #165 on: October 01, 2012, 09:09:09 PM »
On one hand you are correct that the revenues do not correspond to this being a hobby activity, but once you look at any Canon website, the statement is readily confirmed (although using slightly different terms) as Canon does distinguish between their offerings for companies (multi-functional devices and such) and their offerings for private or home office usage.

Indeed, but still, Canon's Consumer Business Unit (photo / video and home printers - no office equipment) accounted for 37%, or $16.8bn, of Canon's total revenues, and 43% of operating profit, in 2011. This contradicts the previous poster's assertion that the camera division is 'very small' and a 'hobby activity' for Canon.

Yes there is a niche called professional photography, but this is really just a niche. Most of the photographic equipment revenue appears to come from what they call consumer or home office usage, which may include people getting started in the business.

Professional photography might indeed be a niche but Canon's commitment to it is evidently no less than Nikon's, which seemed to be the previous poster's implication.

That is a distinct area from doing business with large corporate customers with hundreds or thousands of employees, so within Canon you will find a multitude of of employees taking care of corporate customers, but only a few will actually have something to do with photography.

You don't see this with Nikon. All their other businesses seem to have eroded over time, so that for them only photography appears to be left.

In the absence of any employee numbers per business unit from Canon, the fairest assumption is that Canon's photography-related headcount as a ratio to turnover is not wildly different from Nikon's.

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #165 on: October 01, 2012, 09:09:09 PM »

symmar22

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #166 on: October 02, 2012, 05:46:02 AM »
Just to come back to the photographic matter, I would be very interested in such a camera, 5D3 has been for me a disappointment, since I was expecting more from the sensor. I agree the camera is a BIG improvement over the 5D2 about everything else, but it shows that Canon has not done the proper homework concerning sensors. Like it or not, it's always been about pixels, like before we all wanted films with more resolution. IMHO releasing a new prosumer camera with 22MPX priced at 3500$ when Nikon and Sony have 24MPX on consumer DX cameras, looks like it will appear outdated soon. It looks a bit like the D700 that was likely the best camera on the market back then, but every Canon guy was laughing at its 12MPX sensor. Now I agree that something around 20MPX is enough for a lot of tasks.

   I understand people want a "do it all" camera, but pro market does not have necessarily the same considerations. IMHO, there is a place for more specialized cameras. The 1DX should fit the task for sport / news people, the 5D3 for event / wedding photographers, but still there is space for a camera dedicated to high quality SLOW picture, like architecture / landscape / industrial / studio photography.
   I see a lot of people complaining about low ISO capability or poor AF such a camera might end with. Is it really of such importance ? Does anybody use a GOOD tripod for this kind of pictures ? Because it is a very valuable accessory I strongly advise to try.... Who gives a client a picture of his building taken with 12800 ISO ?

   What I mean here is that a few years ago, architecture / studio / landscape were made with medium format or view cameras, that do not have AF, and the only slide film you would have considered was 100 ISO. Therefore I think a high MP camera is intended at a market who doesn't need such features, people who need high ISO or super AF systems already have these cameras with the 5D3 and 1DX. Personally, this camera would have 1600 ISO max and no AF, I could cope with it as I am sure most serious landscape / architecture / studio photographer could as well...

And NO, I can not afford a 30000$ Hasselblad system, so 5000$ for such a camera would be a blessing. I am mainly using TS-E lenses and Nikon equivalents don't really have the same quality as Canon's (except for the 45 TS).

One word as well about the post processing, I see a lot of people complaining about the size of the files and the time required to process them. I can not understand that people who spend 10,000$ on a camera system cannot not afford a decent computer. You can built a PC with 6 Cores, a fast SSD and 16Gb of memory for around 1000$, that will swallow your pics in a few seconds. Personally I upgrade  my PC every year or 2, the motherboard / CPU / RAM update is less than 500-600$. Of course for Apple users things are not quite as simple, but this is another debate. Post processing big files has never been a real issue, assuming of course you have enough RAM (I advise minimum 16GB, that's 80$).

What scares me a bit, is that it seems Canon doesn't really have at this time the ability to release a sensor that could match the DR needed by this type of camera, one must admit Nikon/Sony has a much better sensor with the D800. Hope we get more real infos soon.

Now I am ready to get slaughtered but after all it's all about debating..... ;)

PS : sorry about my syntax, but I am not a native English speaker
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 12:30:15 PM by symmar22 »

Tov

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #167 on: October 02, 2012, 08:26:16 AM »
I think the Ds series always had sufficient AF and low ISO performance but still came at a prize.
This new 46.1 mp beast isnt going to be any different.
However I doubt that it is going to appear very soon. I think that Canon marketing came up with the idea of spreading a rumour of a very high mp camera  so people would think twice before taking the plunge to the D800.

A lesser Af system would mean taking a step back.
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #168 on: October 09, 2012, 08:54:00 AM »
I'm just wondering...

46.1MP is 8316x5544. 14 bits of usual information make 16384 levels of a colour. Is it not so, that increasing the resolution to such a level you should also remember to increase the colour depth to avoid the banding, which may occur at the pixel level? Does Nyquist-Shannon rule has anything to do here or not? If so - is the 46.1MP maximum usable resolution in 14 bits domain?

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #169 on: October 09, 2012, 07:45:25 PM »
I'm just wondering...

46.1MP is 8316x5544. 14 bits of usual information make 16384 levels of a colour. Is it not so, that increasing the resolution to such a level you should also remember to increase the colour depth to avoid the banding, which may occur at the pixel level? Does Nyquist-Shannon rule has anything to do here or not? If so - is the 46.1MP maximum usable resolution in 14 bits domain?

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You won't experience banding with 14-bit color in most cases, regardless of the image resolution. If you did, it would usually be in large regions of smooth gradient...such as a sky. That already occurs on current and past generation cameras, and is sometimes exacerbated of how your computer screen is calibrated (not caused by, simply made more apparent).

Based on the current rumors, Canon is also boosting the bit depth to a full 16 bits, so this would be a 46.1mp sensor with a 16-bit ADC, which would produce some pretty incredible tonal fidelity, as well as add the potential for a total of four stops or so of improved DR (assuming Canon really does get a handle on their read noise, we might go from an average of 11.something stops to 15.something stops.)
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tron

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #170 on: October 09, 2012, 08:31:16 PM »
Really? I would imagine it will have a different AF system. The 5D III is a prime candidate for a great AF system, but a megapixel monster with a low frame rate? I guess I don't really see it getting the top-end 61/41pt AF system. I certainly hope it gets something better than the 6D's 11pt AF and even the 7D's 19pt AF systems, though.
Why? If it is a 1-series body it will most probably have the top AF system. Wasn't this situation the same with 1DsIII ?

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #171 on: October 09, 2012, 08:33:09 PM »
AF, etc
first Canon need a sensor to compete with.
low read out noise
Large DR
There are non
That is true I am afraid  :(. However, Canon might have a surprise  ::)

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #171 on: October 09, 2012, 08:33:09 PM »

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #172 on: October 09, 2012, 09:43:22 PM »
Really? I would imagine it will have a different AF system. The 5D III is a prime candidate for a great AF system, but a megapixel monster with a low frame rate? I guess I don't really see it getting the top-end 61/41pt AF system. I certainly hope it gets something better than the 6D's 11pt AF and even the 7D's 19pt AF systems, though.
Why? If it is a 1-series body it will most probably have the top AF system. Wasn't this situation the same with 1DsIII ?

Well, your assuming its a 1-series body. The current rumors either indicate its a 3D, or possibly some new line of cameras with a whole different naming scheme. Either way, if its a studio and landscape camera, I would expect the key selling point to be the sensor, not the AF system, and a complex, advanced AF system in a low-frame rate camera...well, that needlessly increases cost when it's not really needed or beneficial.
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #173 on: November 01, 2012, 02:24:37 PM »
So nothing was announced at Photoplus?  ;-)
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #174 on: November 01, 2012, 05:16:17 PM »
So nothing was announced at Photoplus?  ;-)

I'd say the Frankenstorm put a bit of a dampener on everything.
But there's nothing at the Photoplus or Javits website to say the whole event was cancelled, so I'm assuming Photolus did actually happen.
But it would be a bit poor form if anyone did announce anything (and it would have just gotten lost in the noise anyway), so nope, nothing fun...
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #175 on: November 01, 2012, 06:21:09 PM »
Finally some relative credible rumors and 16 bit. I believe will be in a 5D3 Body (not 1D) aimed directly to studio work. At those specs will be at around $ 5K.
For what i do... regarding photography... 46 MP is a blessing from haven

I really, really hope this will be true

if its a 5Dmk3 body and $5000 count me in if its a 1D body i'll pass
I wouldn't mind a high MP body for certain stuff
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #176 on: November 01, 2012, 07:11:20 PM »
This might be off the wall for hard core students of Canon history who can predict what Canon will do -- but it will be interesting to see which of two paths Canon will take with this puppy.  Assuming this is a 5D style camera:

1.  further the specialization (and sale) of different bodies by preserving both a 5D and a high MP camera, optimizing each for their respective niches and preserving the sale of both, i.e. a 5D4 appears in addition to the 46mp body. 

2.  compete more directly in the D800 style market, but at a higher price -- , i.e. merge the 5D and high MP lines into one  camera that can play well at both 46mp and 21-ish. Use it for studio, landscape, location, wedding, lightweight sports and wildlife.    Odds are that the 46mp body won't appear until 5D4 time anyway :D

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2012, 07:39:02 PM »
This might be off the wall for hard core students of Canon history who can predict what Canon will do -- but it will be interesting to see which of two paths Canon will take with this puppy.  Assuming this is a 5D style camera:

1.  further the specialization (and sale) of different bodies by preserving both a 5D and a high MP camera, optimizing each for their respective niches and preserving the sale of both, i.e. a 5D4 appears in addition to the 46mp body. 

2.  compete more directly in the D800 style market, but at a higher price -- , i.e. merge the 5D and high MP lines into one  camera that can play well at both 46mp and 21-ish. Use it for studio, landscape, location, wedding, lightweight sports and wildlife.    Odds are that the 46mp body won't appear until 5D4 time anyway :D

I was thinking along the same lines.  If this camera had crop-mode and 6fps - 8fps, it could really be a do-all kinda camera.  If the 1DX had 22MP, it would be quite close to perfect.  WiFi and it would be.   :D

If it's light enough, I'd be fine with a 1-series body.  I handled my friend's Nikon D4 and was impressed with it's weight.  I could totally carry that all day.
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #177 on: November 01, 2012, 07:39:02 PM »

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #178 on: November 01, 2012, 08:50:26 PM »
It just kills me when people complain about the weight of todays DSLRs'.  ::)

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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #179 on: November 02, 2012, 12:00:41 AM »
It just kills me when people complain about the weight of todays DSLRs'.  ::)

I'm curious what that comment is based on? As I understand older film SLRs, they did not have nearly the same amount of "stuff" packed into them. They did not need the kind of power modern DSLRs do, so did not need huge battery packs (which is where a lot of weight comes from). Modern electronics are also quite dense, and we pack a LOT of electronics into relatively small packages these days. I've never known film itself to be particularly heavy.

So, if film SLR bodies were heavier than modern DSLR bodies, what, exactly, made them that much heavier?
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Re: 46.1mp Canon DSLR Previewed at PhotoPlus 2012? [CR1]
« Reply #179 on: November 02, 2012, 12:00:41 AM »