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Author Topic: Comparing 6D with 5D3  (Read 30810 times)

Canon-F1

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2012, 07:21:19 AM »
One thing that isn't talked of so much is how much life one can expect from the shutter of a 6D. I expect a cheap build, and the 1/180 sync is telling of a cheaper shutter, so how durable it is will determine the 6D as pro worthy or just an FF rebel.

100000 vs. 150000 shutter accusations in the 5D MK2.

but then... replacing a shutter is not such a big deal.

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2012, 07:21:19 AM »

tomscott

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2012, 07:25:47 AM »
I would like to see how people actually use the AF in their systems.

Having infinite points is great... but is it needed? or even that useful in terms of accuracy? Recently gone from a 9 point 40D to the 19 point 7D.

Always used single, centre point AF. I decided to have a go with the different zones on the 7D to be open minded and not be stuck in my ways with centre point. Using full auto it focuses on the closest item. I find this very hit and miss, same with all the other modes.

Now tracking subjects the zone modes are very useable but everything else I still use single centre point. Very accurate I get what I want in focus and the centre is more sensitive anyway.

So why is everyone complaining about the 6D. From what I read nearly everyone uses centre point. So why the outcry? I think using full auto isnt suitable it misses most of the time, the zones are specific and single point and recomposing is how most of us have been doing it for years!??

I also find the more points the more time it takes to choose and focus? Therefore more likely to miss the shot?

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Canon-F1

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2012, 07:31:25 AM »

So why is everyone complaining about the 6D. From what I read nearly everyone uses centre point. So why the outcry? I think using full auto isnt suitable it misses most of the time, the zones are specific and single point and recomposing is how most of us have been doing it for years!??

i don´t know where you have that info from.

but i agree that if your a rebel user it makes not much sense choosing another AF point then the central one.

egg or hen?

with a f1.2 the recomposing is prone to errors.
but then i guess not many rebel owners have such fast glass.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:32:57 AM by Canon-F1 »

CanonLITA

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2012, 08:37:42 AM »
AF Center Point:   -3 vs. –2 EV   = 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light

EV, like stops, is log2.  So, not 33% more sensitive, the 6D works in half as much light.

But of the two, I'd still pick the 5DIII.

Thanks for that. This is a great forum, as I learn something new every day.

Great forum indeed, and Neuro makes it greater

neuroanatomist

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2012, 10:30:13 AM »
I would like to see how people actually use the AF in their systems.

Having infinite points is great... but is it needed? or even that useful in terms of accuracy? Recently gone from a 9 point 40D to the 19 point 7D.

Always used single, centre point AF. I decided to have a go with the different zones on the 7D to be open minded and not be stuck in my ways with centre point. Using full auto it focuses on the closest item. I find this very hit and miss, same with all the other modes.

Now tracking subjects the zone modes are very useable but everything else I still use single centre point. Very accurate I get what I want in focus and the centre is more sensitive anyway.

So why is everyone complaining about the 6D. From what I read nearly everyone uses centre point.

Who's this mythical 'everyone', and does it include anyone besides you?   :P  I suppose the 'everyone' would include those users who just shoot every photo with their main subject smack in the middle of the frame.  To heck with pleasing composition...

For tracking moving subjects, the more points the better - better tracking data drives better motion prediction, more densely spaced points means smoother handoffs from one point to the next.

Zone AF and full Auto have their uses, but yes, you need to be aware of their limitation - they select the closest subject under an AF point in the active group.  Personally, I don't use automatic AF point selection (although I do use the 61-pt auto mode with the 1D X in AI Servo, since you manually select the starting point, then the camera face-tracks the subject all the way through the frame using all available points).

As Canon-F1 correctly points out, using the center point and recomposing is fine if you're shooting with a slow lens (f/4 or f/5.6) and/or with a distant subject, because in those cases the deep DoF will mask the focus error.  But focus-recompose with a fast prime shot wide open results in back focus - that's geometry, plain and simple.  The closer you can get an AF point to your subject, the better.  That's one reason why the AF point spread on the 5D/5DII was unliked (it didn't help that the outer points weren't very accurate, either). 

Note that bodies with lots of AF points (not the 7D, but 1-series bodies and the 5DIII) allow you to limit the number of user selectable points, which speeds up the process of moving the AF point around.
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blaow

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2012, 06:41:11 PM »
I'm interested in picking a 5dmkiii or a 6D for astrophotography. Out of the two, which one points to have a higher signal to noise ratio?

RC

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2012, 07:01:18 PM »
It was hard for me to navigate without pressing the Set button.  I'm sure with practice and time, either can be efficient although my bias prefers the joystick by a long shot.

Given the mediocre af system of the 60d/6d there's really no pressing need for a joystick to select af points, and to zoom around the preview imho the multicontroller is ok. So that wouldn't be the reason no to buy the 6d for me, it's simply "too little (features) for too much (money)".

That's true, but I do like to use the joystick with the Q menu settings.   As someone else pointed out in an earlier post, the rear button layout seems to be arranged as if there was going to be a flip screen.

For me its just one more negative of the 6D.  Going back and forth between my 7D and a 6D would be more awkward than between a 7D and 5D

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #51 on: September 27, 2012, 07:01:18 PM »

dilbert

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #52 on: September 27, 2012, 07:17:28 PM »
The 6D sensor is just 35.8mm x 23.9mm.
The 5D III's is 36mm x 24mm.
I don't know how significant that difference would be to you (or me.)

6D 855.62 sqmm
5D3 864 sqmm

6D has a crop factor of 1.01 compared to the 5D3.

Sharper100

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #53 on: September 28, 2012, 12:25:52 AM »
Sry, its a bit off topic but WHY THE HELL does it say "AE Bracketing +/- 3 EV) in almost every report I read? You can bracket up to 7 shots +/- over 8 EV, thats a lot! I was confused when I read that the 5D III had only +/-3 beacuse I thought its not better vor HDR than my 7D, but +/- 8 stops is a lot. Although I had the 6D in my handy on tuesday, I didn't check if its the same with the 6D. But it's not ok to write "AE Bracketing +/- 3EV", because it would mean its the same as for example the 7D where you can only take 3 shots up to +/- 3EV, thats it. With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?

According to the 5D3 manual (page 170), the camera brackets the exposure up to +3 stops. This can be done with 2, 3, 5, or 7 shots.  So, regardless of the number of shots, the AEB is still within +3 stops.
 
It then says you can set Exposure Compensation (which is another + or -5 stops) in combination with the AEB. I am not sure if the Exposure Compensation can be bracketed (on the + and -) similar to AEB, or is it set only in one direction (darker or brighter). Perhaps those who have tried it can verify this.
 
In either case, the specs for 6D and 5D3 seem to be similar on this feature.
 
Despite all the other differences (minor or major as noted by others); for me, the biggest question is how 6D's new AF system will perform. For this, I will wait until 6D is released, tested, and reviewed....Unless 5D3 price gets closer to my budget  :-\ 

 
 

pz-photography

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #54 on: September 28, 2012, 01:44:36 AM »
Sry, its a bit off topic but WHY THE HELL does it say "AE Bracketing +/- 3 EV) in almost every report I read? You can bracket up to 7 shots +/- over 8 EV, thats a lot! I was confused when I read that the 5D III had only +/-3 beacuse I thought its not better for HDR than my 7D, but +/- 8 stops is a lot. Although I had the 6D in my handy on tuesday, I didn't check if its the same with the 6D. But it's not ok to write "AE Bracketing +/- 3EV", because it would mean its the same as for example the 7D where you can only take 3 shots up to +/- 3EV, thats it. With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?

According to the 5D3 manual (page 170), the camera brackets the exposure up to +3 stops. This can be done with 2, 3, 5, or 7 shots.  So, regardless of the number of shots, the AEB is still within +3 stops.
 
It then says you can set Exposure Compensation (which is another + or -5 stops) in combination with the AEB. I am not sure if the Exposure Compensation can be bracketed (on the + and -) similar to AEB, or is it set only in one direction (darker or brighter). Perhaps those who have tried it can verify this.
 
In either case, the specs for 6D and 5D3 seem to be similar on this feature.
 
Despite all the other differences (minor or major as noted by others); for me, the biggest question is how 6D's new AF system will perform. For this, I will wait until 6D is released, tested, and reviewed....Unless 5D3 price gets closer to my budget  :-\

If its that way in the manual (I didn't check myself yet) then its wrong. The bracketing range depends on the number of shots. At least on my 5D III, if you change the "Number of bracketed shots" in C.Fn1 e.g. to "7", go to "Q" then to "Exp. com/AEB setting" and then turn die upper dial clockwise I can take 7 pictures with the 1st to be over 8 stops under and the last one over 8 stops overexposed. I really don't know why this shouldn't be in the manual and why nobody cares....
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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #55 on: September 28, 2012, 04:20:29 AM »
With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?

Canon expects you to use Magic Lantern which features unlimited and automatic(!) bracketing :so they don't bother with their own firmware anymore :->

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #56 on: September 28, 2012, 03:22:28 PM »
[quote author=neuroanatomist link=topic=9675.msg175990#msg175990 date=1348669813

Who's this mythical 'everyone', and does it include anyone besides you?   :P  I suppose the 'everyone' would include those users who just shoot every photo with their main subject smack in the middle of the frame.  To heck with pleasing composition..

As Canon-F1 correctly points out, using the center point and recomposing is fine if you're shooting with a slow lens (f/4 or f/5.6) and/or with a distant subject, because in those cases the deep DoF will mask the focus error.  But focus-recompose with a fast prime shot wide open results in back focus - that's geometry, plain and simple.  The closer you can get an AF point to your subject, the better.  That's one reason why the AF point spread on the 5D/5DII was unliked (it didn't help that the outer points weren't very accurate, either). 
[/quote]

I think the mythical 'everyone' are people like me who used to make a living with a pair of the original 5D's, where center point was the only point worth using, and that method of working carried over to the 5DmkII, partly out of habit, but mostly out of necessity still. Having used the 85L+35L for 90% of my portrait work in that time, I've always able to nail focus where I want it in more than enough shots to get what I needed by focusing and recomposing. Granted, I am talking about portrait and wedding work, mostly. It only takes a little practice and finesse to figure out what works, but it's not like I ever have a bunch of back-focused shots in any given take, and it's not a problem to finding pleasing compositions at wide apertures.

Now that we are onto the 5DIII, I find myself actually changing focus points all the time, and it's been it's own small learning curve, and I focus and recompose less. That being said, my keeper rate is higher overall, regardless of focusing technique, with the 5DIII because it really is just so much better overall and I'm learning to actually trust my camera, which says a lot. (finally canon, thanks).

emag

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2012, 04:58:46 PM »
I'm interested in picking a 5dmkiii or a 6D for astrophotography. Out of the two, which one points to have a higher signal to noise ratio?

Astro is one of my prime interests also; I've gone film-300D-40D(modded)-60D and was interested in the high ISO capabilities of both the 6D and 5D3.  One thing I'd miss with both of those would be the EOS Clip filters I use.  I think if you're considering plunking down the bucks for either one, it might be worth renting each one first before locking yourself in.  I would at least wait until others (with deeper pockets than mine) have put both cameras through their astrophotography paces and posted reviews/results.  Just when you decide......the 7DMkII will come along.

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2012, 04:58:46 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2012, 05:04:12 PM »
Don't forget ergonomics and button layout.   Myself coming from a 7D, it would be awkward going to the smaller joystick less 6D.   Personally I like the larger body, even the 60D feels a bit small. 

Personally I think the joystick is a con.  The setup on the 6D is just like the 60D and I loved it.  Once I went to my 7D, I was disappointed.  You have to constantly switch back and forth between the pad and joystick.

The wheel sounds like it would be very awkward to quickly change focus points around precisely.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2012, 05:05:38 PM »
One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users.  The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).

This is not true. Adapted screens can be fitted to the 5D Mark III by simply removing two small screws. There are a limited number of suppliers for the screens that, while not as easy to replace as in the 1Dx, or in fact the consumer APS-C devices, take no more than ten minutes to swap.

Yeah but the metering gets messed up then and there is no menu item to compensate.

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Re: Comparing 6D with 5D3
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2012, 05:05:38 PM »