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Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]  (Read 32018 times)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2012, 12:26:21 AM »
I think Canon is doing an okay job making a camera for almost everyone's needs right now considering their losses through natural disasters and Nikon's.... I mean Sony's jump on sensors. Honestly, if you can't take a great photo between ISO 100 (or even 50) and ISO 1600, which is the most common area for all photographers.... What's the point?  Wow, I'm a wedding photographer and it's crucial to my survival that I take clean photos at ISO 104k+ Wow, I didn't even know people were actually there in that dark spot until I took the photo. Canon's sensor is so far behind awwwww Boo-frikkety-hoo. People made it work for so many years, and they're still making it work now. "OMG DYNAMIC RANGE I CAN'T TAKE THE PHOTO CORRECTLY TO BEGIN WITH SO I NEED TO MAKE UP FOR IT IN POST. I HAVE LESS AF POINTS AND IN MY MIND ALL OF THE PHOTOS ARE OUT OF FOCUS. OMG THE SENSOR IS THE HEART OF THE IMAGE AND WITHOUT HIGH SPECS I CAN'T TAKE A PHOTO. SPECS ARE EVERYTHING BECAUSE THE PEOPLE IN MARKETING SAID SO. I HAVE NO SENSE OF PHYSICS OR CREATIVITY, WAAAAAAAAH. I DON'T CARE ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHY ITSELF, I WANT TO WORK IN THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. I LIKE TROLLING. I LIKE GOING TO CANON'S FORUM AND BASHING CANON BECAUSE THEY'RE #1 IN MARKETSHARE AND I DON'T KNOW WHY. MAYBE BECAUSE THINGS LIKE LENS LINEUP, ERGONOMICS, UI, AND SKIN TONE REPRODUCTION MATTER NOTHING IN THE REAL WORLD BUT MEGAPIXELS DO." Yeah.... Listen to yourselves.

Sure more DR can be useful to rescue shots, but it is hardly just about that! Do you not get that many scenes DO NOT FIT into the DR Canon delivers WHEN PROPERLY EXPOSED. Sure an infinite number do, but an almost infinite number do not. People care about this because THEY actually DO care about actual photography.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 02:47:07 AM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2012, 12:26:21 AM »

Woody

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2012, 01:35:47 AM »
After the 6D, Canon won't be getting any more money from me until they fix their low ISO dynamic range shortcoming. For lenses, I will pick the new Sigma 35 f/1.4 over Canon 35 f/1.4L, and Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC USD vs Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM Mk2.

If m43 introduces a long focal length 1:1 macro lens (~ 250 mm in 35 mm equivalent), I will give some serious thoughts about dumping all my Canon stuff.

mrsfotografie

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: September 24, 2012, 02:12:53 AM »
After the 6D, Canon won't be getting any more money from me until they fix their low ISO dynamic range shortcoming. For lenses, I will pick the new Sigma 35 f/1.4 over Canon 35 f/1.4L, and Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC USD vs Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM Mk2.

If m43 introduces a long focal length 1:1 macro lens (~ 250 mm in 35 mm equivalent), I will give some serious thoughts about dumping all my Canon stuff.

Maybe it's becoming time a third party manufacturer also develops a Canon compatible body  8)  ;)
5D3, 5D2, Sony α6000, S90 | SY14 f/2.8, Ʃ20 f/1.8, 24 f/2.8, 35 f/2, Ʃ35 f/1.4A, 50 f/1.8 I, Ʃ50 f/1.4 EX, 100L Macro, 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 1.4x II, 70-300L, 100-400L | E-mount: SY12 f/2, Ʃ19 & 30 f/2.8 EX DN, 16-70 ZA OSS, 55-210 OSS, Metabones SB | FT-QL, AE-1P | FD(n) & FL lenses

aj1575

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2012, 02:37:52 AM »
Should hit shelves about 2015. The one thing I hate about Canon is that they make an announcement and then it is months before the product is available. Getting tired of that. Why don't you wait until you are only a week or two away from release before making the announcement?

This is funny. The memory plays tricks on us. It was maybe two years ago, when people on the other side (Nikon) were complaining, that Nikon is announcing products, and that it takes them so long to deliver. Canon at the same was able to deliver right to the spot. Now times have changed, Nikon is fast, and Canon is slow.
Just wait for another year or two, and things will change again. Canon needs to catch up in the sensor department, so they announce their products early, to keep people at bay.(Two years ago it was Nikon who needed to catch up, so they were early to announce products).

What can we do about it? A) Complaining in online forums, about how much Brand X or Y suck because of whatever? B) Switch brands every 4 years? C) Just live with these cycles, and take some nice pictures with already great equppment in the meantime?

I'll go with C.

kapanak

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2012, 02:50:42 AM »
After the 6D, Canon won't be getting any more money from me until they fix their low ISO dynamic range shortcoming. For lenses, I will pick the new Sigma 35 f/1.4 over Canon 35 f/1.4L, and Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC USD vs Canon 24-70 f/2.8L USM Mk2.

If m43 introduces a long focal length 1:1 macro lens (~ 250 mm in 35 mm equivalent), I will give some serious thoughts about dumping all my Canon stuff.

Maybe it's becoming time a third party manufacturer also develops a Canon compatible body  8)  ;)

As unrealistic as that sounds, one has to consider that similar things have been done in the past.

Look at Pentax and the almost uncountable number of different camera SLR bodies from a vast number of manufacturers with the K-mount. Before that, the M42 screw mount ...

Same goes for Leica and their M39/L39/LTM screw mount ... many many manufacturers (including Canon) used that mount for their cameras and lenses. Same goes for M-mount, with admittedly much less companies using the mount (Konica Hexar RF, Voigtlander Bessa R and T, etc).

Then look at a smaller number of companies that used the Nikon F mount. Fuji being one of them.

The patents for the EF mount have already expired after 25 years ... Wouldn't anybody be able to make an EF compatible camera without paying royalties or even asking Canon for permission? In fact, didn't we see a EF electronic adapter for E-mount just months ago, as well as the recently released Blackmagic Design video camera? Then again, the mount and it's electronic contacts and communications (aperture, IS, exif, etc) may be free to use as of this year, but the motor controls and AF communications and algorithms are protected by separate patents, so there might be a hurdle there. Sigma could get around it perhaps.

Just a thought.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 04:04:09 AM by kapanak »

madmailman

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2012, 05:52:55 AM »
I can't help but chuckle at the state of affairs on this forum now. For years I coveted a 5Dmkii but couldn't justify getting rid of my 7D to do it. After all the 7D AF system is "light years" ahead of the antiquated 5dmkii AF system. I read hundreds of threads and posts dedicated to how bad the mkii AF system was/is. The general consensus was just giv us a 22mp (who needs more, right) 5D with a better AF system. Well Canon delivered exactly that. What's the old saying? Watch out, you might get what you asked for. I'm still amazed at the pictures a lot of you have gotten with your 5D mkii and it's antiquated AF system.

So what exactly is needed on the 7Dmkii ? Just better DR? More MP? WiFi? Espresso maker? Remember the warning (it's in bold above).

P.S. I'm busy saving for a 5D mkiii and I am soooo loking forward to getting my hands on it, even if it doesn't have enough DR/MP/WiFi/whotsits/thinga-mabobs.  ;)
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Albi86

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2012, 06:06:59 AM »
I can't help but chuckle at the state of affairs on this forum now. For years I coveted a 5Dmkii but couldn't justify getting rid of my 7D to do it. After all the 7D AF system is "light years" ahead of the antiquated 5dmkii AF system. I read hundreds of threads and posts dedicated to how bad the mkii AF system was/is. The general consensus was just giv us a 22mp (who needs more, right) 5D with a better AF system. Well Canon delivered exactly that. What's the old saying? Watch out, you might get what you asked for. I'm still amazed at the pictures a lot of you have gotten with your 5D mkii and it's antiquated AF system.



You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2012, 06:06:59 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2012, 06:29:37 AM »
I can't help but chuckle at the state of affairs on this forum now. For years I coveted a 5Dmkii but couldn't justify getting rid of my 7D to do it. After all the 7D AF system is "light years" ahead of the antiquated 5dmkii AF system. I read hundreds of threads and posts dedicated to how bad the mkii AF system was/is. The general consensus was just giv us a 22mp (who needs more, right) 5D with a better AF system. Well Canon delivered exactly that. What's the old saying? Watch out, you might get what you asked for. I'm still amazed at the pictures a lot of you have gotten with your 5D mkii and it's antiquated AF system.

You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

+1 ... exactly!

Etienne

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2012, 07:31:22 AM »

Maybe it's becoming time a third party manufacturer also develops a Canon compatible body  8)  ;)

BDCC has an EF mount camera, $2995.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/855879-REG/Blackmagic_Design_BMD_CINECAM26KEF_Cinema_Camera.html

madmailman

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2012, 08:11:59 AM »
You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

Your blu-ray comparison is BS. There is nothing new in todays blu-ray player that wasn't in one from 4 years ago. So if you want to use that as an example then compare the price of the mkii from 4 years ago to now. Big difference right? The mkiii has a new sensor, new AF, new processor. i.e. it is NOT 4 year old tech. Anybody who thinks it is is just plain daft. It might not be the tech you wanted in the mkiii but it IS what people asked for.
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Woody

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2012, 08:24:42 AM »
Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Why did Canon introduce a 9 point all cross AF sensor in theT4i/650D but not the 6D? I just find this bizarre.

Etienne

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2012, 08:36:00 AM »
You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

Your blu-ray comparison is BS. There is nothing new in todays blu-ray player that wasn't in one from 4 years ago. So if you want to use that as an example then compare the price of the mkii from 4 years ago to now. Big difference right? The mkiii has a new sensor, new AF, new processor. i.e. it is NOT 4 year old tech. Anybody who thinks it is is just plain daft. It might not be the tech you wanted in the mkiii but it IS what people asked for.

The Blu-Ray player analogy is quite good.

Blu-ray players have improved enormously since introduction. They not only play faster and clearer, they offer a plethora of new features from streaming almost any media from any source, wifi, control by smart-phones, inclusion of media card slots. The upgrades are too numerous to list here. .... and as Albi86 points out, at a fraction of the previous cost.

Albi86's points are well-made.

pasghik

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »
You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

Your blu-ray comparison is BS. There is nothing new in todays blu-ray player that wasn't in one from 4 years ago. So if you want to use that as an example then compare the price of the mkii from 4 years ago to now. Big difference right? The mkiii has a new sensor, new AF, new processor. i.e. it is NOT 4 year old tech. Anybody who thinks it is is just plain daft. It might not be the tech you wanted in the mkiii but it IS what people asked for.

5Dmk3 has a little bit better sensor. Same MP, better ISO by appr. 0.3 stop.
Biggest improvement is AF. But 5Dmk3 is also cost 1000 Euro more than mk2 did on its release and twice the price at the moment of 5Dmk3's release.
So we get more (better AF) for more money. After 4 years. This is not what "technical progress" means.

If we compare 5Dmk3 with other contemporary cameras, it looses in everything. You can claim as much as you want, that only Canon has correct color, sits good in hand or whatever.
But from technical (measurable) point of view, 5Dmk3 for 3500 Euro belongs to the year 2008.
In year 2012 it is highly overpriced.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »

Albi86

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2012, 09:02:07 AM »
You're failing to frame things in the right context. 4 years ago all people wanted was a better AF in the 5D2, now things have changed as technology matured and new performance standards were defined.

Also, the improvement in AF (supposedly) boasted by the 6D over the 5D2 is quite undersized for today's standards and for the price of that camera with respect to other missing features compared to its older sibling.

Some years ago a Blu-Ray player was 800€, now you can have one for 80€. Selling old technology for a brand-new price tag is unacceptable. But I guess Apple fans and stockholders would probably disagree with me.

Your blu-ray comparison is BS. There is nothing new in todays blu-ray player that wasn't in one from 4 years ago. So if you want to use that as an example then compare the price of the mkii from 4 years ago to now. Big difference right? The mkiii has a new sensor, new AF, new processor. i.e. it is NOT 4 year old tech. Anybody who thinks it is is just plain daft. It might not be the tech you wanted in the mkiii but it IS what people asked for.

Who said the 5D3 is a bad camera? People only complain about pricing, being an incrememental upgrade from the 5D2. The obvious proof is the IQ being roughly the same, with the 5D3 having an edge due to the new processor adn a higher rate of keeprs due to better AF. After 4 years this is the bare minimum, not something to thank heaven for. Another proof is the 5D2 still being a great value option, especially in comparison with the new, more expensive and yet unconvincing 6D. There's general consensus about latest Canon products being around 500$ overpriced, for as much as you can find it BS.

Now go and see the D600 killing the D700 (though being an upper-tier camera!) in almost every respect, having better high ISO in spite of its double resolution, and see how much Nikon priced it. Now THAT is a revolutionary product.


LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2012, 01:55:31 PM »
I can't help but chuckle at the state of affairs on this forum now. For years I coveted a 5Dmkii but couldn't justify getting rid of my 7D to do it. After all the 7D AF system is "light years" ahead of the antiquated 5dmkii AF system. I read hundreds of threads and posts dedicated to how bad the mkii AF system was/is. The general consensus was just giv us a 22mp (who needs more, right) 5D with a better AF system. Well Canon delivered exactly that. What's the old saying? Watch out, you might get what you asked for. I'm still amazed at the pictures a lot of you have gotten with your 5D mkii and it's antiquated AF system.

So what exactly is needed on the 7Dmkii ? Just better DR? More MP? WiFi? Espresso maker? Remember the warning (it's in bold above).

P.S. I'm busy saving for a 5D mkiii and I am soooo loking forward to getting my hands on it, even if it doesn't have enough DR/MP/WiFi/whotsits/thinga-mabobs.  ;)

5D3 IS great other than it's hard to believe they actually slightly regressed on low ISO image quality after half a decade which was very disappointing (and it wouldn't been awesome had it had dual digic and 30MP and still 6fps, maybe the new digic takes too much power or is too large, who knows, hopefully not  thinking about future models or maybe they still can't do line-skipping free video above 22MP) and it's just plain silly that they yet again crippled AutoISO in pathetic fashion (maybe ML can fix it). (They also didn't make nearly as much as they could have for video, although now with ML we finally have zebras, better histograms and focus peaking so that is now partly fixed. Still lacking crop modes, clean HDMI out, better codec settings and bitrates and while the GH2 seems a bit too video-like crisp the 5D3 seems kinda softer than 1920x1080p. ML might fix the codecs settings and bitrates hopefully and probably clean HDMI out, crop modes might be more doubtful sadly since they haven't figured out how to code the Digic image processor and chip readouts.) But for stills other than a kind of outdated sensor for low ISO it is a great cam and delivers what was asked (and for video it did deliver the moire-free video). For shooting when it has enough reach and you don't need tons of DR it's absolutely awesome.

The price on the 5D3 did seem a bit high at intro since it didn't also bring along top low ISO DR, although it's now settling more into $2800-3100 range which seems perfectly fine.

7D2 could use the new 5D3 AF (and of course the improved low ISO that they haven't seem to be able to do an get rid of all the vertical banding, on the 7D it can even show in mid tones to one degree or another on many copies) and the improved video. (the 7D AF was not all that, I trusted the 5D2 center point more for one shot and for some sports, like soccer, I swear the 5D2 more often did better than worse for AI Servo than the 7D, although for surfing the 7D did great AI Servo much better than 5D2; 5D3 generally does much better than 7D for AF, the only place they seem the same is for surfing).

Even with the 5D3 out there the 7D2 still makes sense because at only 22MP FF the 5D3 simply doesn't have the reach needed for some things (and 8fps certainly doesn't hurt either).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 01:59:52 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 70D & 700D in 2013? [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2012, 01:55:31 PM »