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Author Topic: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]  (Read 21493 times)

torger

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2012, 04:35:23 PM »
I think Canon thinks this is a niche camera, primarily competing with medium format digital.

Anyone familiar with medium format digital prices know that this camera does not need to be cheap. I think it is smart of Canon to make it a true pro body (unlike the D800) since it will then be more attractive as a "MF killer".

Even with a high cost body you will need the best lenses which will not be cheap either. High resolution photography is not cheap, so I would not spare any expenses on the body.

The 40 megapixel Hasselblad H4D-40 is $16,000 body only, and it is one of the cheaper MFD systems.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 04:40:12 PM by torger »

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: September 25, 2012, 04:35:23 PM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: September 25, 2012, 04:38:14 PM »
If Canon releases such a high MP camera, then price will be one of the major factors accountable for its success. It does not look like an "upgrade" cam for 5DMKIII as it will appeal to a limited market (landscapes and studio shooters), so it will not be in any real direct competition with 5DMKIII.

Wait a second. I thought studio and landscape shooters represent the majority of the market, at least according to all the whiners on Canon Rumors :o

No, the majority of whiners on Canon Rumors just want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the "same old" that is marginally better than what was previous.

i.e. They don't want a sensor in a camera that is almost identical in characteristics to one that is already 3.5 years old, they want a sensor that measurably has less bad attributes and measurably more good attributes.

torger

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: September 25, 2012, 04:43:46 PM »
If Canon releases such a high MP camera, then price will be one of the major factors accountable for its success. It does not look like an "upgrade" cam for 5DMKIII as it will appeal to a limited market (landscapes and studio shooters), so it will not be in any real direct competition with 5DMKIII.

Wait a second. I thought studio and landscape shooters represent the majority of the market, at least according to all the whiners on Canon Rumors :o

No, the majority of whiners on Canon Rumors just want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the "same old" that is marginally better than what was previous.

i.e. They don't want a sensor in a camera that is almost identical in characteristics to one that is already 3.5 years old, they want a sensor that measurably has less bad attributes and measurably more good attributes.

Yes the success of this camera will very much be about low ISO performance, since that is what high resolution photographers use. Will it have as good DR as D800 at ISO50/ISO100? If it is as "bad" as 5D mark 3 it will not be a MF killer.

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: September 25, 2012, 04:50:30 PM »
If Canon releases such a high MP camera, then price will be one of the major factors accountable for its success. It does not look like an "upgrade" cam for 5DMKIII as it will appeal to a limited market (landscapes and studio shooters), so it will not be in any real direct competition with 5DMKIII.

Wait a second. I thought studio and landscape shooters represent the majority of the market, at least according to all the whiners on Canon Rumors :o

No, the majority of whiners on Canon Rumors just want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the "same old" that is marginally better than what was previous.

i.e. They don't want a sensor in a camera that is almost identical in characteristics to one that is already 3.5 years old, they want a sensor that measurably has less bad attributes and measurably more good attributes.

If you look at Canon's sensor technology, the greatest improvement since they added Correlated Double-Sampling around a decade ago is their microlensing. Gapless microlenses were the most recent evolution on top of having microlenses at all. Since that "innovation" (I'm not even sure Canon was the first to use it), Canon has really cheated their way by. Fundamentally, Canon sensor tech is a decade old, if not older...where as the competition is using sensor tech that has been innovated throughout the last decade, with major improvements as recent as a couple years ago.

Most people used to think that the only real arena left for improvement in sensors was megapixels, and people were sick of "more megapixels." Canon did actually listen to their customers cry for "fewer, but better, megapixels and MOAR ISO!!" Canon's failure, though, was to see that the competition has been doing both...improving the quality of each pixel while concurrently increasing megapixels. I don't think people in general thought that was possible...the old anecdotes (which are still profusely regurgitated across the net even these days) about smaller pixels being worse pixels are wrong, and people are finally beginning to realize that. Canon, who holds the largest user base, seems to be stuck, stagnant, and I think people are finally realizing they have been for a LONG time. Now that its becoming known that we can have both MORE pixels while concurrently getting BETTER pixels, fewer and fewer photographers will be satisfied with Canon effectively standing still with their sensor technology.

The new demand is "More AND better megapixels!!", rather than "Better pixels at any cost, even if it means less megapixels." Personally, I think the demand is justified. Canon needs to get back into the game. They need to start innovating NEW technology, heat up the competition, and help drive prices down. That can only mean a win-win for the consumer...and being a consumer, I like my wins!

KitsVancouver

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: September 25, 2012, 05:55:17 PM »
I would ill advise telling someone to take a 1Ds3 to a wedding; I know people did it, but the 5D Mark II was a far better tool for that, relatively speaking.   

Why is that?  I'm curious why a 1Ds3 would be a bad camera for a wedding photographer. 

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: September 25, 2012, 06:02:27 PM »
I would ill advise telling someone to take a 1Ds3 to a wedding; I know people did it, but the 5D Mark II was a far better tool for that, relatively speaking.   

Why is that?  I'm curious why a 1Ds3 would be a bad camera for a wedding photographer.

Today, in 2012, I would not use it, IF I had either a 5D2 or 5D3.  Besides, did I ever say anywhere it was a bad camera for a wedding photographer?  No, there are better tools, NOW, however.  You have much better ISO performance choices NOW.  Technology improves and tools improve, and that is the only point I was making.
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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »
If Canon releases such a high MP camera, then price will be one of the major factors accountable for its success. It does not look like an "upgrade" cam for 5DMKIII as it will appeal to a limited market (landscapes and studio shooters), so it will not be in any real direct competition with 5DMKIII.

Wait a second. I thought studio and landscape shooters represent the majority of the market, at least according to all the whiners on Canon Rumors :o

No, the majority of whiners on Canon Rumors just want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the "same old" that is marginally better than what was previous.

i.e. They don't want a sensor in a camera that is almost identical in characteristics to one that is already 3.5 years old, they want a sensor that measurably has less bad attributes and measurably more good attributes.

Canon substantially improved on the 5D2 when they introduced the 5D3.  There were numerous actual improvements, from substantially better high ISO performance to a much more responsive body to much better autofocus.  Canon addressed numerous requests from pros.  With the 5D3, the 5D series went from prosumer to pro.  But then uninformed people whined terribly that it had become too expensive and somehow wasn't improved enough.  Which leads me to conclude that many people want better products but aren't willing to actually pay for them; they will always decide that the better product is "overpriced".

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »

Canon-F1

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: September 25, 2012, 07:10:30 PM »
.  Which leads me to conclude that many people want better products but aren't willing to actually pay for them; they will always decide that the better product is "overpriced".

or maybe they just compare canon to other brands....

Zlatko

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: September 25, 2012, 07:44:04 PM »
.  Which leads me to conclude that many people want better products but aren't willing to actually pay for them; they will always decide that the better product is "overpriced".
or maybe they just compare canon to other brands....
I've done that comparison.  The D800 is a fine camera, but the 5D3 meets my photographic needs much better.  The 5D3 was designed as if the engineers were very attentive to my wishlist for a camera.  The D800 was designed for other photographers' wishlists.  As a result, there is nothing in the D800 that would make me choose it over the 5D3.  But I was addressing the claim that people "want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the 'same old' that is marginally better ...".  Canon has done exactly that with the 5D3.

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: September 25, 2012, 07:49:25 PM »
  As a result, there is nothing in the D800 that would make me choose it over the 5D3.  But I was addressing the claim that people "want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the 'same old' that is marginally better ...".  Canon has done exactly that with the 5D3.

and the 6D compared to the 5D MK2 or D600?

no question the 5D MK3 is a great camera.
but i understand that some landscape/studio photographer hoped for more MP and better DR.

and if you don´t care about high iso... i think it´s fair to say that the new 5D MK3 sensor is not such a jump.

Zlatko

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: September 25, 2012, 08:08:59 PM »
  As a result, there is nothing in the D800 that would make me choose it over the 5D3.  But I was addressing the claim that people "want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the 'same old' that is marginally better ...".  Canon has done exactly that with the 5D3.

and the 6D compared to the 5D MK2 or D600?

no question the 5D MK3 is a great camera.
but i understand that some landscape/studio photographer hoped for more MP and better DR.

and if you don´t care about high iso... i think it´s fair to say that the new 5D MK3 sensor is not such a jump.
I haven't compared the 6D to those cameras because it's not out yet.

Photographers who hoped for more MP and better DR will likely get the camera they want, just not on the exact day that they want it, and maybe not at the exact price they'd be happy to pay.   Canon is a big company but not so big that they can meet everyone's needs all at once.  The landscape/studio photographers will get their wishlist fulfilled on another day.

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2012, 09:33:56 AM »
If Canon releases such a high MP camera, then price will be one of the major factors accountable for its success. It does not look like an "upgrade" cam for 5DMKIII as it will appeal to a limited market (landscapes and studio shooters), so it will not be in any real direct competition with 5DMKIII.

Wait a second. I thought studio and landscape shooters represent the majority of the market, at least according to all the whiners on Canon Rumors :o

No, the majority of whiners on Canon Rumors just want Canon to deliver actual improvements rather than the "same old" that is marginally better than what was previous.

i.e. They don't want a sensor in a camera that is almost identical in characteristics to one that is already 3.5 years old, they want a sensor that measurably has less bad attributes and measurably more good attributes.

Canon substantially improved on the 5D2 when they introduced the 5D3.  There were numerous actual improvements, from substantially better high ISO performance to a much more responsive body to much better autofocus.  Canon addressed numerous requests from pros.  With the 5D3, the 5D series went from prosumer to pro.  But then uninformed people whined terribly that it had become too expensive and somehow wasn't improved enough.  Which leads me to conclude that many people want better products but aren't willing to actually pay for them; they will always decide that the better product is "overpriced".

5DIII ISO performance is about 0.5 stops improved over the 5DII, if you are using RAW (doesn't everybody use RAW with the 5D series?). Don't be so "uninformed."

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2012, 10:25:26 AM »
5DIII ISO performance is about 0.5 stops improved over the 5DII, if you are using RAW (doesn't everybody use RAW with the 5D series?). Don't be so "uninformed."

The 5d3 doesn't take the same shots like the 5d2 w/ 0.5 steps lower iso, that's too general. From the raw samples I looked at myself it's hard to nail down a specific number because the iso 5d2 to 5d3 in iso1600-iso3200 is surely much smaller than announced by Canon, but the visual appeal of the 5d3 shots is better because of less banding and a "nicer" film-like noise pattern.

The 5d3 certainly has a decisive gain above iso 6400, if you need that and can cope with the loss of dynamic range and color.

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Re: Canon EOS 3D at 46.1mp Next Month? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2012, 10:25:26 AM »