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Author Topic: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]  (Read 62043 times)

Woody

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2012, 02:01:47 AM »
I rather have a 7MP camera with the dynamic range of a 4K video camera than 40+MP with the existing DR

Well, as SoNikon has clearly demonstrated, pixel count/density has little to do with DR. The 16 MP D7000 sensor and 36 MP D800 sensor have better DR than Canon's 22 MP 5D3 sensor.

Anyway, I have finally come to understand why Canon was so much more wary of Sony several years ago. In an interview with Chuck Westfall, the latter deemed Sony as a very serious competitor without mentioning Nikon. Sony's CMOS technology is really quite impressive, considering how much they struggled in the past with their terrible CCDs... this all changed after some disgruntled Canon employee in Japan went online to repine how badly he was treated by his employer... back then, many dismissed his complaints as fake or juvenile, but look what's happened in the past few years... sigh...

If Nikon, Sony or Olympus offers similar lenses to what own now, I will have jumped ship.

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2012, 02:01:47 AM »

verysimplejason

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2012, 02:28:50 AM »
I rather have a 7MP camera with the dynamic range of a 4K video camera than 40+MP with the existing DR

I dream of the day I can get the same output out of my camera as to what I see in the viewfinder.

Technology today should enable multiple sensors for highlights and shadows and midtones combined in real time.

Even if the camera did 3fps and have 7MP (approx. 4K resolution) I would
Buy one.

It's about time cameras start "seeing" what we see...

multiple sensors? around $20K up.   :D  It will only be available for those who really gets a lot of money through photography or those very rich pampered guys.  Well, we can dream...

Zlatko

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2012, 02:35:00 AM »
So finally a rumor to stop the bleeding of people owning Canon gear selling up for Nikon.

i.e. this rumor was to be expected after the combination of the D800 and D600 showed up Canon's current full frame sensor being found wanting.

Expect the 5D Mark III to have a shorter life than either then 5D or 5D Mark II.
So, are you one of the people "owning Canon gear selling up for Nikon"?

mystic_theory

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2012, 03:33:38 AM »
More DR with a Canon body? Unbelievable: have our prayers being heard?
After looking at the Canon R&D sector sleeping for a (few) year(s) I start daydreaming myself. :-)

dougri

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2012, 03:36:11 AM »
I rather have a 7MP camera with the dynamic range of a 4K video camera than 40+MP with the existing DR

I dream of the day I can get the same output out of my camera as to what I see in the viewfinder.

Technology today should enable multiple sensors for highlights and shadows and midtones combined in real time.

Even if the camera did 3fps and have 7MP (approx. 4K resolution) I would
Buy one.

It's about time cameras start "seeing" what we see...

Check out the patent I linked previously... if they have developed this to production, it may be the single sensor solution to your wishes.  Lots of 16b ADCs and pixel-level exposure control might get the 15-stop DR you are dreaming of.  Oh well, nice to dream about anyway ;)

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20100141792.PGNR.

dilbert

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2012, 03:43:02 AM »
So finally a rumor to stop the bleeding of people owning Canon gear selling up for Nikon.

i.e. this rumor was to be expected after the combination of the D800 and D600 showed up Canon's current full frame sensor being found wanting.

Expect the 5D Mark III to have a shorter life than either then 5D or 5D Mark II.
So, are you one of the people "owning Canon gear selling up for Nikon"?

Whether or not I am is not the point.

This rumor is strategic in nature, as will be the announcement of the camera next month, because it is talking to specific feature/performance areas where Canon is currently vulnerable.

Canon need to do something to keep people from wondering whether or not their R&D has fallen behind and cannot keep up with the pace that Sony have set.

pasghik

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2012, 03:57:08 AM »
If Nikon, Sony or Olympus offers similar lenses to what own now, I will have jumped ship.

Actually I looked at Nikon's lenses. They have everything except 70-200 f/4 (which I never wanted) and 135 f/2.
On the other side they have brilliant 14-24 f/2.8, 28 f1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, 50 f/1.8G and other lenses.

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2012, 03:57:08 AM »

Ricku

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2012, 04:31:36 AM »
If Nikon, Sony or Olympus offers similar lenses to what own now, I will have jumped ship.

Actually I looked at Nikon's lenses. They have everything except 70-200 f/4 (which I never wanted) and 135 f/2.
They are also lacking when it comes to 24 and 17 mm tilt shift lenses. This is one of the big reasons to why I haven't jumped ship.

If this new sensor from Canon is all we are hoping for, then I will have zero reason jump.

Woody

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2012, 05:00:00 AM »
Actually I looked at Nikon's lenses. They have everything except 70-200 f/4 (which I never wanted) and 135 f/2.
On the other side they have brilliant 14-24 f/2.8, 28 f1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, 50 f/1.8G and other lenses.

For my use, their 10-24 performs horribly and they have nothing like the 17-55 f/2.8 IS and 70-200 f/4 IS. Their 16-35 f/4 and 24-120 f/4 perform similarly to the Canon counterparts. Besides, I have too many other Canon accessories... need to consider more carefully...

verysimplejason

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2012, 05:02:19 AM »
I rather have a 7MP camera with the dynamic range of a 4K video camera than 40+MP with the existing DR

I dream of the day I can get the same output out of my camera as to what I see in the viewfinder.

Technology today should enable multiple sensors for highlights and shadows and midtones combined in real time.

Even if the camera did 3fps and have 7MP (approx. 4K resolution) I would
Buy one.

It's about time cameras start "seeing" what we see...

Check out the patent I linked previously... if they have developed this to production, it may be the single sensor solution to your wishes.  Lots of 16b ADCs and pixel-level exposure control might get the 15-stop DR you are dreaming of.  Oh well, nice to dream about anyway ;)

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20100141792.PGNR.

You are basically correct.  There's only one sensor and pixel level control on exposure time and something like a mini HDR being done on per pixel level. 
"5. The image capturing apparatus according to claim 4, wherein the exposure amount map generation unit is configured to set at least one of two types of exposure time to each of the plurality of pixels. "

Wow!  This means an additional processor just for controlling and computing the exposure time on a per pixel basis.  So the more pixels, the more processing time and the more processing time, the more heat generated by the camera...  I hope they do develop a good way of releasing those heat since I am thinking that this technology will generate more heat than whatever the present Canon cameras are generating.  I think this is the primary reason why Canon is already stating that this camera will be a DR monster but at the same time may not be able to operate efficiently at high ISOs.  Don't you think this is also the primary reason why Canon was not able to implement it with 5D3, 1DX and 6D since the technology may have been available since 2009?  They don't want to sacrifice the HIGH ISOs vs better DR.

Woody

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2012, 05:08:38 AM »
I think CRguy mis-titled the topic.  Here's the properly marked up version:
More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]

So, do you think if Canon has given up completely on high pixel cameras? Or are you saying we should only expect something like that much later...? An early pre-announcement with much later release seems to be Canon's strategy lately...  ;D

pasghik

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2012, 05:12:15 AM »
If Nikon, Sony or Olympus offers similar lenses to what own now, I will have jumped ship.

Actually I looked at Nikon's lenses. They have everything except 70-200 f/4 (which I never wanted) and 135 f/2.
They are also lacking when it comes to 24 and 17 mm tilt shift lenses. This is one of the big reasons to why I haven't jumped ship.

If this new sensor from Canon is all we are hoping for, then I will have zero reason jump.
Personally I never even considered TS. So for me it is not a problem. BTW, Samyang has made 24 TS.
That must be good.

Actually I looked at Nikon's lenses. They have everything except 70-200 f/4 (which I never wanted) and 135 f/2.
On the other side they have brilliant 14-24 f/2.8, 28 f1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, 50 f/1.8G and other lenses.

For my use, their 10-24 performs horribly and they have nothing like the 17-55 f/2.8 IS and 70-200 f/4 IS. Their 16-35 f/4 and 24-120 f/4 perform similarly to the Canon counterparts. Besides, I have too many other Canon accessories... need to consider more carefully...
Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm 1:2,8G IF-ED not IS, but still.
I am not pro in nikon lenses, but for wide angle there is excellent Tokina 11-16.

I also have other Canon accessories, and I am considering more carefull. ;)

verysimplejason

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2012, 05:14:55 AM »
I think CRguy mis-titled the topic.  Here's the properly marked up version:
More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]

So, do you think if Canon has given up completely on high pixel cameras? Or are you saying we should only expect something like that much later...? An early pre-announcement with much later release seems to be Canon's strategy lately...  ;D

Well, Canon can't sleep that long.  :)  It might feel that they're ignoring the threats but behind the scene, they are busy pressuring their engineers to deliver a better body.  It's always about money and money will drive Canon's strategy.  They're a big company with lots of managers with lots of experience.  Money will always be the driving factor for these companies.

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2012, 05:14:55 AM »

Louis

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2012, 05:49:58 AM »
This is exciting and depressing all the same, because exciting that it could be what we all have wish for but with a price tag we don't,  Canon annoy me because anything they do that means effort they charge mega dollars for it, the D800 is so reasonably priced, I cant see Canon ever producing a D800 beater for around the same price bracket, also I cant see Canon ever developing a camera in the 3D 4D range, it would kill sales of the 1D Line, expect it to be a 1Dx S or as mentioned an all new name and that of course the same pricing as the 1D Line.

FunPhotons

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2012, 06:15:55 AM »
I rather have a 7MP camera with the dynamic range of a 4K video camera than 40+MP with the existing DR

I dream of the day I can get the same output out of my camera as to what I see in the viewfinder.

Technology today should enable multiple sensors for highlights and shadows and midtones combined in real time.

Even if the camera did 3fps and have 7MP (approx. 4K resolution) I would
Buy one.

It's about time cameras start "seeing" what we see...

multiple sensors? around $20K up.   :D  It will only be available for those who really gets a lot of money through photography or those very rich pampered guys.  Well, we can dream...

Have a single sensor, but with a mask that drops a few stops on every other pixel, i.e. they've got sunglasses on. Combine the pixels and off you go. It would just drop the resolution of your sensor by 1/2, so if you combine it with a higher pixel sensor overall (46mp), then you'd stay par with today with increased DR. I should patent that idea (probably already been done)

And the whiners won't complain about file sizes being too big

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Re: More Big Megapixel Talk [CR1]
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2012, 06:15:55 AM »