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Author Topic: mhm... open letter to canon?  (Read 22375 times)

7enderbender

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 09:36:07 PM »
Indeed, Canon will not care about some letter from a bunch of camera gear geeks like all of us here or elsewhere. Vote with you feet. I personally doubt that the 6D will sell very well. But I'm sure Canon has done their market research and have their reasons to believe that it is a good model for them to release as it is. Maybe it's just there to drive the sales of other models. I really don't know. There is not enough detail in their financial statements to fully figure it out - or at least I couldn't the last time I looked at their data  -yes, I'm really geekish enough to actually do such a thing; I do, however, draw the line at specialized industry market research reports that you can buy for big chunks of money...

Canon (and very few others) has a fascinating business model in a very difficult environment that has dramatically changed over the last decade and a half. They have done many many things right and at the right time. The fact that they still exist is somewhat of a miracle and attests to the fact that their marketing folks are as savvy as their developers at least.

By the way: the next industry changing wave of disruptive innovation is well underway. And it may be more difficult for Canon and Nikon then the digital revolution. With the capabilities of iPhones and such the market for P&S cameras and even entry level DSLRs may shrink. That's a problem because for these companies that's where the money is - not counting Canon's "professional" (non-camera related) business line or Nikon's medical devices, etc.

So instead of whining and complaining about this, that and the other we should be glad that we still have options. I could see a future where professional grade cameras might be very expensive items for a small market segment. Think Leica's business model. This kind of stuff has happened in other sectors. I'm thinking of professional audio equipment for instance. While a lot of things have become digital and dirt cheap - and surprisingly good, other high grade pieces of gear have become very very expensive for those who need it or think they need it. Or try finding a real watch maker these days. Mechanical watches have become a pure luxury item and the handful of people who can service them charge an arm and a leg.

If we are moving into a direction where large(r) format SLRs or beyond become considered obsolete by the vast majority of users you are going to end up paying dearly to the few specialized manufactures who still make this for you.
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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2012, 09:36:07 PM »

verysimplejason

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2012, 09:44:43 PM »
I feel there's no need for an open letter.  Sales performance alone will be enough for Canon to finally listen.  So I love the more negative comments Canon receives, the more a lot of people will buy Nikon.  When that happens, maybe Canon will finally listen.  Besides, I think Canon marketing people are always listening to all those whinings from Canon users.  It's one of their responsibilities after all.

andy

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2012, 10:37:17 PM »
This is my first post here at Canon Rumours.  Don't laugh... yesterday I ordered a 6D with the 24-105L lens.  I am promised delivery in December.  I currently have a T1i and four canon lens (two L's and soon three).  Over the past three years I have taken quite a few photos and gradually become more interested in and able to produce better photographs.  I have read quite extensively which has helped my photos quality progress and I have been looking at getting a better camera for months.  I like the Canon system and would rather not have to learn a second one.  Not being a pro, and not wanting to be, I am looking for a camera that will allow me to be more creative and get the shots I envision.  I want to explore nature videos and night and landscape photography, although most of my current photos are of people.  I decided on the 6D since I expect it will be at least as good as the 5d mark ii and since it is new it should serve me well for a number of years.  Some of the features that convinced me to go for this camera were the built in lens correction using downloadable lens profiles (I have a 24mm 1.4II that really needs a better camera), the focal adjustment, the wifi, the full frame sensor (I like that it has a bigger pixel than the 5d mark iii even if fewer).  None of the lack of features that people have been complaining about on the site seemed like deal-breakers to me.  Since I am still collecting lens and trying many different types of photography I am not set on buying the "ultimate" camera at this time.  By not buying the 5D mark iii I am able to buy a camera and another lens.  For me, the 6D suits me more than the other offerings out there at this time and I am so excited.  I can't wait for December.

bdunbar79

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2012, 10:41:35 PM »
This is my first post here at Canon Rumours.  Don't laugh... yesterday I ordered a 6D with the 24-105L lens.  I am promised delivery in December.  I currently have a T1i and four canon lens (two L's and soon three).  Over the past three years I have taken quite a few photos and gradually become more interested in and able to produce better photographs.  I have read quite extensively which has helped my photos quality progress and I have been looking at getting a better camera for months.  I like the Canon system and would rather not have to learn a second one.  Not being a pro, and not wanting to be, I am looking for a camera that will allow me to be more creative and get the shots I envision.  I want to explore nature videos and night and landscape photography, although most of my current photos are of people.  I decided on the 6D since I expect it will be at least as good as the 5d mark ii and since it is new it should serve me well for a number of years.  Some of the features that convinced me to go for this camera were the built in lens correction using downloadable lens profiles (I have a 24mm 1.4II that really needs a better camera), the focal adjustment, the wifi, the full frame sensor (I like that it has a bigger pixel than the 5d mark iii even if fewer).  None of the lack of features that people have been complaining about on the site seemed like deal-breakers to me.  Since I am still collecting lens and trying many different types of photography I am not set on buying the "ultimate" camera at this time.  By not buying the 5D mark iii I am able to buy a camera and another lens.  For me, the 6D suits me more than the other offerings out there at this time and I am so excited.  I can't wait for December.

Congratulations on your purchase!  The 6D will certainly offer at least as much or more in regards to IQ as the 5D Mark II and if anything, possibly better AF performance in low light.  Enjoy it and I hope you don't have to wait too long to get it!
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distant.star

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2012, 10:44:07 PM »

.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed: everything else is public relations."
-George Orwell

I have seen no journalism in the photography equipment field. The nearest we have to journalism is Roger at Lens Rentals, and that's a sad situation for consumers.

to be honest, i like to see a website raise uncomfortable questions.

but today it´s all nice "blahblah".

when a website is lucky enough to get an interview, it looks like they do everthing to keep the manager comfortable.

the result is an interview that is nothing more then boring PR.
cheap advertising for the companys.

when have you read an interview with a canon manager where the interviewer asked question you would ask?
You're offended? Oh, really! Life IS offense -- get used to it.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2012, 11:53:51 PM »
with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....
The 6D is supposed to excel at low-light autofocus.  If you don't need that, then it probably wasn't built for you but rather for users who need that.  If you have different needs for AF, Canon offers the 5D3 and 1DX.  If none of those meet your needs, there are Nikon and Sony and others.  Why complain that Canon isn't making the exact camera you want at the price you want at the time that you want it?  No manufacturer can satisfy everyone.  If Canon builds the exact camera that you want, then other potential buyers can rightfully "demand a statement" as to why Canon didn't build the camera that they wanted at the price that they wanted at the time that they wanted it.  There would be no end to such statements.  Besides, who has tested the 6D's AF and found it lacking?  People are complaining before they can even try the camera.




You can't be serious?!
"Excel at Low Light performance"?
You actually believe that marketing bull***t?
Have you read what else Canon has to say about the 6D on their website?
They actually say stuff like, "with continuous shooting up to 4.5fps, you are ready to capture fast action".
That line was actually taken from their description:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d
Unless "fast action" is a Seniors' Walk-a-Thon, the 6D is not ready to capture jack.


My point is the talk about "excelling at Low Light performance" is most likely equally fabricated marketing hype.


And as far as the guy complaining about it, he is well within his right to do so if he is to plunck down his money for one. It always amazes me how people run to Canon's (or any other major company's) rescue when others complain about their subpar efforts. The guy has every right to complain about the 6D because in this day and age, it is a crap effort from a company that should know better. And as long as people just sit their and say nothing, Canon will continue to put out subpar equipment at overflated prices backed overhyped marketing. Every Canon camera put out this year was good but could have been a hell of a lot better for what they are charging. But the 6D is just plain crap. Period.





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RC

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 11:55:22 PM »
Indeed, Canon will not care about some letter from a bunch of camera gear geeks like all of us here or elsewhere. Vote with you feet. I personally doubt that the 6D will sell very well. But I'm sure Canon has done their market research and have their reasons to believe that it is a good model for them to release as it is....
I don't give Canon's marketing as much credit as you do.   I believe the 6D wouldn't even exist if the D600 didn't exist.  My belief is Canon released what they could to salvage/maintain market share from the D600.  I just don't see that this 6D was designed and spec'd with Canon's customers in mind. 

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 11:55:22 PM »

Peter Hill

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2012, 11:56:37 PM »
Last month I published an Open Letter to Canon Australia at http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/9263512-an-open-letter-to-canon-australia and put a link on their FB page. It wasn't about the 6D (you get what you pay for). It was about the fact that their website does not disclose any RRPs, that their arguments for not honouring Canon USA warranties (or Japan or UK or anywhere but Oz) were specious, that they won't sell much through their on-line store if they don't stock it with anything, and that it sucked big time that they did not offer any rebates, unlike Canon USA. Whilst I garnered much support and I felt much better for getting my gripe off my chest, it was a futile exercise.

EOBeav

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 12:30:21 AM »
I honestly think the 6D will be a very good FF camera.
A very good xD FF camera, or a very good xxxD FF camera? To me, it just looks like they've Rebelized the xD line.
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Zlatko

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 12:42:01 AM »
with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....
The 6D is supposed to excel at low-light autofocus.  If you don't need that, then it probably wasn't built for you but rather for users who need that.  If you have different needs for AF, Canon offers the 5D3 and 1DX.  If none of those meet your needs, there are Nikon and Sony and others.  Why complain that Canon isn't making the exact camera you want at the price you want at the time that you want it?  No manufacturer can satisfy everyone.  If Canon builds the exact camera that you want, then other potential buyers can rightfully "demand a statement" as to why Canon didn't build the camera that they wanted at the price that they wanted at the time that they wanted it.  There would be no end to such statements.  Besides, who has tested the 6D's AF and found it lacking?  People are complaining before they can even try the camera.
You can't be serious?!
"Excel at Low Light performance"?
You actually believe that marketing bull***t?
Have you read what else Canon has to say about the 6D on their website?
They actually say stuff like, "with continuous shooting up to 4.5fps, you are ready to capture fast action".
That line was actually taken from their description:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d
Unless "fast action" is a Seniors' Walk-a-Thon, the 6D is not ready to capture jack.

My point is the talk about "excelling at Low Light performance" is most likely equally fabricated marketing hype.

And as far as the guy complaining about it, he is well within his right to do so if he is to plunck down his money for one. It always amazes me how people run to Canon's (or any other major company's) rescue when others complain about their subpar efforts. The guy has every right to complain about the 6D because in this day and age, it is a crap effort from a company that should know better. And as long as people just sit their and say nothing, Canon will continue to put out subpar equipment at overflated prices backed overhyped marketing. Every Canon camera put out this year was good but could have been a hell of a lot better for what they are charging. But the 6D is just plain crap. Period.
Wow ... what an ultra-cynical point of view!  You haven't even tried the camera and you're calling it "crap" and worse.  Canon has released an ultra-low-light autofocus spec for the 6D and there is no reason to disbelieve it.  Why would you disbelieve it -- other than having an ultra-cynical point of view?

And why don't you wait to try it before slamming the camera and the company that makes it?  Oh yes, ... that would require just an ounce of fairness, which you can't seem to muster.

Of course, the 6D isn't going to please everybody.  No camera can.  If multi-cross-type autofocus is someone's priority, Canon offers it!  You just have to pay for it.  They're not obligated to put every feature they make in every camera they make.

Why do people feel entitled to the exact camera that they personally envision at the price that they want to pay?  The fact that a camera does not meet your personal photographic needs at this moment does not mean it is "sub-par".  Can you just imagine that it might be very well designed to meet someone else's photographic priorities, perhaps someone with a different photographic style or different subject matter?  And if another company offers you the camera you need, then by all means buy it!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:43:34 AM by Zlatko »

Tayvin

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2012, 01:01:41 AM »
I think your time would be better spent building your own "Perfect Camera".  I'm not trying to be rude, but do you read the comments on these types of sites?  Half the people blogging are angry at everything and I don't think it has anything to do with Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc...  The perfect camera body is not going to fix your life.

M.ST

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2012, 01:28:16 AM »
I don´t understand why Canon put no CF card slot or a CF and a SD card slot in it.

That´s why a lot of 7D, 5D Mark II and 50D users are not willing to switch to the 6D.

Hillsilly

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2012, 01:52:52 AM »
It was about the fact that their website does not disclose any RRPs...

Getting a little off topic, but its good to see a lot of authorised reps (such as Camerapro in Brisbane) list the 6D at $2199.  The do say the price might change, but I think it bodes well.  When you consider that price includes $200 GST, the underlying price is even cheaper than the US.  Overall, local Canon pricing for camera bodies hasn't been shocking me as much as it used to.

Back on topic, I can't believe how much anger the 6D has generated.  Peoples, its just a camera.  It will probably work very well, even if it is uninspiring to many.  There's plenty of other alternative cameras out there.  You don't have to pin your hopes and aspirations on this one.  If its not perfectly suited to your needs, don't buy it.  The best way of getting your message across to Canon is for them to see all of their 6Ds gathering dust on the shelf while the D600 sells like hotcakes.
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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2012, 01:52:52 AM »

verysimplejason

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2012, 02:40:09 AM »
I don´t understand why Canon put no CF card slot or a CF and a SD card slot in it.

That´s why a lot of 7D, 5D Mark II and 50D users are not willing to switch to the 6D.

6D is for rebel users who wants to go FF.  7D, 5D2 and 50D can go for 5D3, the upcoming 7D2 and the 70D.  The choice is there though I admit not in the price range that we want.

aj1575

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2012, 02:52:21 AM »
with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....

Move on, buy a Nikon D600, and enjoy the greener grass on the other side....


...and then you will meet a guy who is focusing with its -3EV center AF-Point where the Nikon is completly blind. You can't have it all. I moslty use my center point only, since it is the best I've got, and it is the best way get in-Focus shoots with my old heavily used EOS 350D.

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Re: mhm... open letter to canon?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2012, 02:52:21 AM »