mhm... open letter to canon?

[distant.star]

This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is.  This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

I think the premise of this thread is questionable, but overall, it doesn't seem like the "stupidest" here. There have been some interesting points made.

And if you think this can be characterized as anywhere near the "cesspool" of the Internet, I think you haven't seen the nether reaches!

Nothing wrong with a discussion where people can say wrongheaded things, and perhaps be corrected or at least challenged.

[bdunbar79]

This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is.  This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

I think the premise of this thread is questionable, but overall, it doesn't seem like the "stupidest" here. There have been some interesting points made.

And if you think this can be characterized as anywhere near the "cesspool" of the Internet, I think you haven't seen the nether reaches!

Nothing wrong with a discussion where people can say wrongheaded things, and perhaps be corrected or at least challenged.

While I won't disagree with your statement, it just adds to the amazement of current Canon users, who hate Canon, complaining about how bad Canon sucks, but they are current Canon users......and they contribute to this site.  We all have a choice.  You hate Canon, buy something else.  You hate the 6D.  Buy something else.  Period.  Canon doesn't owe any of you anything; you have a choice in the market.

[Northstar]

The thing that gets some people upset is when you've invested huge sums of money in the glass, and then they "hold back" on the camera.   Can/Nik almost have a duopoly in terms of market share.  I believe these two companies have 90% of the dslr market, so it's not like buying a car, or TV, or new golf clubs.  Once you buy in with the glass, you hope that "your company" makes a tech leap or strives for excellence in some way so that you have a residual long term benefit. 

[MARKOE PHOTOE]

These are the tools that are available to work with at the moment and these change so quickly as witnessed by the qty of new and/or improved lenses and bodies.  Surely, a true artist does the best they can with the tools that are currently available.

Why waste time crying over what could have been. Get out there, use your creative mind and tools available and make it the best YOU possibly can.

[sanj]

I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.

[Gothmoth]

I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.

and from my experience they buy the even cheaper D600 like mad right now.

the problem for canon is they don´t exist in a vaccum.

[Gothmoth]

This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is.  This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

wonder why he participates in this thread so much then.... instead of taking pictures.... 

[poias]

Canon is doing just fine (for now). This internet furor over their inferior sensor will eventually prompt them to innovate, but the reason they look as bad is because the competitive tech from sonikon is simply too good. A life long Canon user, now I use D600... it just destroys my 5D3 in IQ, no question about it. The detail, tone, and color is far superior to 5D3 (in RAW as use jpegs only as preview).

[bdunbar79]

This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is.  This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

wonder why he participates in this thread so much then.... instead of taking pictures.... 

Yeah, haha, I guess the 1200 I take every week with my CANON equipment isn't enough?  There's always something wrong right?   

[DarkKnightNine]

This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is.  This is embarassing for the site.

Hmm interesting assumption since not only are you here, but you have commented several times. So what does that say about you? My point is not to insult you (as you have done to others by calling us stupid for being a part of this discussion) but to point out that any discussion and sharing of ideas cannot not be classified as stupid or a cesspool if we have learned something from each other or enjoy sharing our ideas or opinions with one another. Lighten up bro. We are just things off our chests. No harm in that. You don't like or want to be a part of that, don't join or read. No need to be insulting.

[DarkKnightNine]

The thing that gets some people upset is when you've invested huge sums of money in the glass, and then they "hold back" on the camera.   Can/Nik almost have a duopoly in terms of market share.  I believe these two companies have 90% of the dslr market, so it's not like buying a car, or TV, or new golf clubs.  Once you buy in with the glass, you hope that "your company" makes a tech leap or strives for excellence in some way so that you have a residual long term benefit.

Exactly my point and the reason why I feel I have the right to complain. I've given Canon literally over $70,000 in glass and various bodies during my 6 years as a professional shooter and it pisses me off that I'm now locked into a system that doesn't deliver the goods. To add insult to injury is the fact that they are more than capable and appear to be doing it on purpose to maximize profits. When people say why don't you just switch or buy something else, I say sure, ask Canon to reimburse my $70,000 and then I'll consider spending it elsewhere and probably get more back for my buck. Otherwise I have every right to complain about a company that doesn't deliver products that maximize the investment I've already made with them.

[Northstar]

Canon is doing just fine (for now). This internet furor over their inferior sensor will eventually prompt them to innovate, but the reason they look as bad is because the competitive tech from sonikon is simply too good. A life long Canon user, now I use D600... it just destroys my 5D3 in IQ, no question about it. The detail, tone, and color is far superior to 5D3 (in RAW as use jpegs only as preview).

"Destroys" ....let's not be dramatic...."slightly better" is more accurate.

[criza]

Indeed, Canon will not care about some letter from a bunch of camera gear geeks like all of us here or elsewhere. Vote with you feet. I personally doubt that the 6D will sell very well. But I'm sure Canon has done their market research and have their reasons to believe that it is a good model for them to release as it is. Maybe it's just there to drive the sales of other models. I really don't know. There is not enough detail in their financial statements to fully figure it out - or at least I couldn't the last time I looked at their data  -yes, I'm really geekish enough to actually do such a thing; I do, however, draw the line at specialized industry market research reports that you can buy for big chunks of money...

Canon (and very few others) has a fascinating business model in a very difficult environment that has dramatically changed over the last decade and a half. They have done many many things right and at the right time. The fact that they still exist is somewhat of a miracle and attests to the fact that their marketing folks are as savvy as their developers at least.

By the way: the next industry changing wave of disruptive innovation is well underway. And it may be more difficult for Canon and Nikon then the digital revolution. With the capabilities of iPhones and such the market for P&S cameras and even entry level DSLRs may shrink. That's a problem because for these companies that's where the money is - not counting Canon's "professional" (non-camera related) business line or Nikon's medical devices, etc.

So instead of whining and complaining about this, that and the other we should be glad that we still have options. I could see a future where professional grade cameras might be very expensive items for a small market segment. Think Leica's business model. This kind of stuff has happened in other sectors. I'm thinking of professional audio equipment for instance. While a lot of things have become digital and dirt cheap - and surprisingly good, other high grade pieces of gear have become very very expensive for those who need it or think they need it. Or try finding a real watch maker these days. Mechanical watches have become a pure luxury item and the handful of people who can service them charge an arm and a leg.

If we are moving into a direction where large(r) format SLRs or beyond become considered obsolete by the vast majority of users you are going to end up paying dearly to the few specialized manufactures who still make this for you.

+1. Best post in this thread. Thank you for your thoughts.

[x-vision]

The thing that gets some people upset is when you've invested huge sums of money in the glass, and then they "hold back" on the camera.   

Exactly.

As others have said already, this is not a 'take it or leave it' proposition.

I wish it was, so Canon would have faced the music (big time!) for their recent marketing choices. 

[x-vision]

I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.

Well, it remains to be seen if the 6D will be perceived as good value for money.

Basic, consumer-level specs ... for $2099 ... is not good value for money in my book.

The thing is, even if the 6D drops to $1500, I'll still have my doubts.
The basic AF system on the 6D is certainly not confidence inspiring.
And what good is a gorgeous FF sensor on a camera that can't focus.
That's my view of things.