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5Dc as an entry level FF.

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Author Topic: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?  (Read 16855 times)

K-amps

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2012, 12:33:34 AM »
Thats pretty good for 3200. I never got shots with this low grain/ noise on 3200 on my 5dc...
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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2012, 12:33:34 AM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2012, 12:42:04 AM »
I disagree. The 5Dc still has better ISO performance than my 7D. Here is the untouched, full-res, no-NR jpg straight from lightroom. Since lenses are sharper on FF, it makes the noise seem more like grain and not like mush on APS-C. This means you can be more aggressive with NR and keep sharpness than aps-C.

Its a very clean file. Feel free to examine it for your determination.

ISO-3200 is quite usable. Remember, this file has no sharpening or post-processing of any kind.

http://images.us.viewbook.com/9a8bb8062cdfc9b86e057b85a601e742.jpg


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dr croubie

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2012, 02:11:01 AM »
Why are lenses sharper on FF?


It's not that they're sharper, every lens only resolves so many line-pairs per mm and that's it, it's that on FF they appear sharper.
Take an 18MP sensor, it's got 3456 pixels high.
On aps-c (7D etc), that's 3456 pixels in 16mm, pixels are 4.6 microns apart, 216 pixels per mm
On FF (ie 1DX), that's 3456 pixels in 24mm, pixels are 6.9 microns apart, 144 pixels per mm

Maximum (theoretical) resolution should be 1 line-pair in 2 pixels (read here as to why this is unrealistic in the real world).

Anyway, take a lens that can resolve 72 lppmm, and put it on a 1DX. Take an image of a test chart that has 72lppmm. In a perfect world, that would give you an image that contains 72lppmm.
Take that same lens, and put it on a 7D. The lens can only resolve 72lppmm, but the sensor can see up to 108lppmm.
Blow both of those images up to the same size. The 1DX image contains 72*24 = 1728 line pairs. The 7D image only contains 72*16 = 1152 line pairs (and probably some aliasing and artefacts too). So the same lens on the 1DX looks 'sharper', as it were, it's resolving the maximum that the sensor can handle, whereas on the 7D it's only resolving a lower number.


All of that is theoretical, of course, and a lot of things make those numbers impossible (like Bayer and AA filters, read the above link). Counteracting this, there's also the fact that most lenses get softer near the FF corners, which just doesn't show up on APS-C sensors, so take that into consideration too...
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RLPhoto

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2012, 09:29:00 AM »
Thats pretty good for 3200. I never got shots with this low grain/ noise on 3200 on my 5dc...

Did you nail your exposure's?

Also, the larger the format of film, the less critical it is of the lens you put in front of it.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 09:53:00 AM by RLPhoto »

K-amps

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #64 on: October 10, 2012, 11:19:11 AM »
Thats pretty good for 3200. I never got shots with this low grain/ noise on 3200 on my 5dc...

Did you nail your exposure's?

Also, the larger the format of film, the less critical it is of the lens you put in front of it.

I think I did... infact I was looking at some of my older shots and I have visible grain in the well exposed areas (100% views ofcourse) at ISO 640... I deleted a bunch of older stuff yesterday and I saw one that showed this phenomenon. I don't think I had a defective body... it took amazing shots at below 400 ISO.

I just expected it to trounce the T2i in 1600-3200, and it did not seem to do so...

I did love the Viewfinder though compared to the T2i. I like the Auto ISO on the T2i, makes shooting on the go so much easier.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 12:25:21 PM by K-amps »
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KyleSTL

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2012, 11:47:58 AM »
I've only taken my 5D out in low light a few times since I bought it a few weeks ago.  My camera shows banding at 3200, and some noise (with no obvious patterning) at 1600 and 800.  The 800 and 1600 noise is pretty easily correctable in DPP (I always shoot raw), but the 3200 requires the slider to move further than I'm accustommed to and results in blurring of details easily visible at 50%.  Overall, I'm very happy with my 5Dc.  I did miss the extra 'reach' of my previous cameras (XT, XTi, 30D) when I went to a baseball game last week (front row, right field line, ~50 ft beyond 1st base), but I can always buy longer lenses in the future, or crop when necessary.
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K-amps

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2012, 12:26:10 PM »
I've only taken my 5D out in low light a few times since I bought it a few weeks ago.  My camera shows banding at 3200, and some noise (with no obvious patterning) at 1600 and 800.  The 800 and 1600 noise is pretty easily correctable in DPP (I always shoot raw), but the 3200 requires the slider to move further than I'm accustommed to and results in blurring of details easily visible at 50%.  Overall, I'm very happy with my 5Dc.  I did miss the extra 'reach' of my previous cameras (XT, XTi, 30D) when I went to a baseball game last week (front row, right field line, ~50 ft beyond 1st base), but I can always buy longer lenses in the future, or crop when necessary.

This mirrors my experiences as well. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2012, 12:26:10 PM »

RLPhoto

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2012, 12:28:53 PM »
Thats pretty good for 3200. I never got shots with this low grain/ noise on 3200 on my 5dc...

Did you nail your exposure's?

Also, the larger the format of film, the less critical it is of the lens you put in front of it.

I think I did... infact I was looking at some of my older shots and I have visible grain in the well exposed areas (100% views ofcourse) at ISO 640... I deleted a bunch of older stuff yesterday and I saw one that showed this phenomenon. I don't think I had a defective body... it took amazing shots at below 400 ISO.

I just expected it to trounce the T2i in 1600-3200, and it did not seem to do so...

I did love the Viewfinder though compared to the T2i. I like the Auto ISO on the T2i, makes shooting on the go so much easier.

Do you have any examples of excessive noise @ 640?

K-amps

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2012, 12:48:57 PM »
Actually Ramon, I would not call it excessive. Overall it was not bad, many of the 3200 shots i took were usable after NR albeit at the cost of some sharpness. I think it was a fine Camera.... its just unfair to compare it to the 5diii... which I sometimes mentally do.

I have not seen banding unless I lift dark/ under-exposed areas even at 3200 and if I shot to the right, it was better ...
« Last Edit: October 11, 2012, 03:50:59 PM by K-amps »
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Synomis192

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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »
I've only taken my 5D out in low light a few times since I bought it a few weeks ago.  My camera shows banding at 3200, and some noise (with no obvious patterning) at 1600 and 800.  The 800 and 1600 noise is pretty easily correctable in DPP (I always shoot raw), but the 3200 requires the slider to move further than I'm accustommed to and results in blurring of details easily visible at 50%.  Overall, I'm very happy with my 5Dc.  I did miss the extra 'reach' of my previous cameras (XT, XTi, 30D) when I went to a baseball game last week (front row, right field line, ~50 ft beyond 1st base), but I can always buy longer lenses in the future, or crop when necessary.

Glad to know that RAW files are handled well using PP. I still don't know how to use NR setting correctly though, is there a certain value that you use when you use NR levels?

Interestingly enough, I was reading your gear list on your sig, you have the same lenses. On a side note, how well does the 28-105mm f/3.5-5.6 work on a 5Dc. I think that's my go to EF lens for now once I upgrade that is.
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Re: Canon 5Dc as an entry for FF? yay or nay?
« Reply #69 on: October 10, 2012, 05:05:28 PM »