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Author Topic: Dream Package for Soccer???  (Read 10740 times)

Halfrack

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Dream Package for Soccer???
« on: September 28, 2012, 05:14:37 PM »
I won an auction to shoot sideline/endline at a MLS game here in Seattle.  Having done this before, I was slightly limited in what I was shooting, but I'm going all out for this one.  The dilemma I'm having is what to rent to augment my existing kit...  At this point here's what I have coming from Roger (in red) with my existing kit:

Monopod with Manfrotto T bar and RC4 QR plates with:
5d3 with 300/2.8IS and 1.4xII tele
1d2 with 70-200/2.8

Spider belt with:
Right Hip 7d with 24-70/2.8
Left Hip T4i with Tokina 12-24/4 with a 40/2.8 and 17-55/2.8IS for fun

Now, to start with, I'm not even sure the placement of the 5d3/1d2/7d is correct, but I think that with the range on the 300 and the wide of the 24-70 (28-112) are going to be the main image makers, but the 1d2 is getting lots of range in the middle of things.

Now the fun, if I get ambitious, what would you 'upgrade' from this??  I've considered a second 5d3/7d, 70-200/2.8isII, 300/2.8isII even going so far as a D800e with a 200-400 or a 14-24/4.  In a really bad dream I'd have a H5d-80 for some amazing shots, but my bank isn't that crazy with me...

The location is Qwest Field / CenturyLink field (just hosted Monday Night Football) so the lighting is as good as it'll get.  Time frame is beginning of November, and being Seattle, there is a chance of rain possible...  I've been digging around my existing photos from a few years ago trying to notice a pattern in MM, but it's all over the board, and some of it I cropped down.  Oh, and we get some great support so there'll be plenty of crowd shots:
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 11:50:27 AM by Halfrack »
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Dream Package for Soccer???
« on: September 28, 2012, 05:14:37 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer (Football for those elsewhere)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 07:12:57 PM »
Maybe just better to call it soccer.  Most know what it is. 
Football refers to many different games depending on where you are.
 
Football refers to a number of sports that involve, to varying degrees, kicking a ball with the foot to score a goal. The most popular of these sports worldwide is association football, more commonly known as just "football" or "soccer". Unqualified, the word football applies to whichever form of football is the most popular in the regional context in which the word appears, including association football, as well as American football, Australian rules football, Canadian football, Gaelic football, rugby league, rugby union[1] and other related games. These variations of football are known as football codes.

Halfrack

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2012, 11:49:47 AM »
Updated
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Richard Lane

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2012, 01:21:05 PM »
That sounds like a cool day!  8)

Are you asking how you should position the equipment?

Are you going to have 2 cameras on the monopod?  Personally, I think 2 cameras on a monopod would throw the balance off too much for me, but I must admit I have never shot like that before.  Are you bringing 4 cameras?  This sounds a bit excessive to me.  I would leave the t4i at home.  I would also leave the EF-S 17-55 at home since it will only mount on the 7D, the only reason to swap that out with the 24-70mm would be for weight reduction. I would also leave the pancake home due to it's lack of versatility.

I would put the 5D3, 300mm f/2.8L IS with 1.4X on the monopod by itself.  Then I would put the 70-200mm on the 7D and have that at my right hip on a strap (I use black rapid sport) or whatever you like.  I would use the 5D3 and 7D for action/field shots.  The 7D has been favorably compared to the 1D3, that's why I was suggesting the 7D over the 1D2 for your action shots, but bare in mind that I have never shot with the 1D2, but I do own a 7D, MKIV and 1DX, as I like to shoot primarily sports and action shots.  Also, when quickly switching from the 5D3 to the 7D for your action, I think it will be easier, because those cameras are more similar to each other, than the 1D2.

I would put the 24-70mm on the 1D2(1.3X) to get wider shots, than if it were on the 7D(1.6X).

The equipment list is more than enough.  You may just want to bring the Tokina 12-24mm and carry it on your belt and leave the rebel at home. You will then need to have a place on your belt or strap to attach to the tripod ring of the 70-200mm when mounting the Tokina on the 7D, since I don't believe that it will fit on the 1D2 or 5D3.  This is a problem with mixing 5D3(FF), 1D2(1.3) and 7D(1.6) crop cameras with EF-S type crop/digital lenses. But it will all be good because you're planning it out in advance. ;)


These are just suggestions for you to consider,
Rich

« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 02:15:54 PM by Richard Lane »

Halfrack

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 04:51:46 PM »
Thanks Richard, yes, at this point I need to chat it out and am looking for feedback.  I came up with the 2 cameras on a monopod  a few years ago and I seem to remember it going well.  We'll see how it goes :D

I agree that the 70-200 and the 300 are going to be doing 80% of the shooting.  My logic for using the 7d over the 1d2 for the 24-70 is that the times I need the wide, I will want the higher IQ (goal celebrations coming at me).

If the t4i is dropped, the 12-24/17-55/40 would be left behind, as I don't want to swap lenses, but am willing to insert/remove the 1.4X.

I am also considered doing the 1d2/300 combo, with the 5d3/70-200+1.4x and 7d/24-70 keeping the mid-range the highest IQ.  Moving between the bodies isn't that bad - I've got grips so at least where the shutter is will be consistent.  ARG! the possibilities!!!
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Zlatko

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2012, 05:52:34 PM »
I think you are all set with exactly the lenses you need.  The only upgrade I would consider is a second 5D3 for its magnificent image quality, autofocus and high ISO performance. 

Richard Lane

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 05:55:29 PM »
Is this game in an indoor stadium and is the lighting poor?

If so, then consider the 5D3 as your primary body with the best ISO and best AF, so I would put that body out in front for the majority of the work, which for me would be the 300mm +/- 1.4x @300mm-420mm.

The 7D is the 2nd best body, so I would give that the rest of the work, on whatever lens you feel that will be.  For me the 7D would go on the 70-200mm and then 1D2 would get the 24-70mm for celebrations, fans, and stadium shots.  I usually find that most player celebrations would be farther away from you, by the goal or on either sideline (depending which team scores), so the 70-200mm would be better for that.

Personally, I would carry the wide angle lens on my think tank belt for cool stadium shots and wide half-time shots.  However, I'm not sure why you don't want to swap lenses? 

You certainly have a lot of combinations to choose from!

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2012, 05:55:29 PM »

bkorcel

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2012, 06:32:49 PM »
5D3 and 300mm f2.8L.  You can crop shots even from the other side of the field and still resolve sweat drops.

TrumpetPower!

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2012, 07:04:41 PM »
As I understand it, the standard single-shooter setup is two bodies: a Great White on a monopod (at least a 400 or 500 for big field sports -- rent one if need be) on the left, and a 70-200 on the right. Most of the time, you shoot with the Great White. When the action gets close, that goes over your left shoulder, lens pointing down, left arm wrapped around the monopod. In the same movement, you bring the 70-200 up to your eye with your right hand.

You'd have a normal and an ultra-wide on your belt, and swap with the 70-200 when warranted (mostly for crowd / sidelines shots when action is slow.

I know there's lots of excitement at this chance for you (congratulations!), but I'd keep it simple. If you've got extra gear, have it available (with a friend in the stands, for example) as a backup in case of disaster, but don't have it with you. (Extra memory and batteries, a Shorty McForty, that sort of thing excepted, of course.)

One last suggestion: see if you can get in touch with somebody local who already does this for a living. Offer to buy lunch in exchange for tips. Oh -- and see if you can do some practice runs at a high school or college game (or even practice session), too.

Cheers,

b&

P.S. I also understand that good knee pads are not optional. b&

P.P.S. Have fun! b&

charlesa

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2012, 12:45:09 AM »
As I understand it, the standard single-shooter setup is two bodies: a Great White on a monopod (at least a 400 or 500 for big field sports -- rent one if need be) on the left, and a 70-200 on the right. Most of the time, you shoot with the Great White. When the action gets close, that goes over your left shoulder, lens pointing down, left arm wrapped around the monopod. In the same movement, you bring the 70-200 up to your eye with your right hand.

You'd have a normal and an ultra-wide on your belt, and swap with the 70-200 when warranted (mostly for crowd / sidelines shots when action is slow.

I know there's lots of excitement at this chance for you (congratulations!), but I'd keep it simple. If you've got extra gear, have it available (with a friend in the stands, for example) as a backup in case of disaster, but don't have it with you. (Extra memory and batteries, a Shorty McForty, that sort of thing excepted, of course.)

One last suggestion: see if you can get in touch with somebody local who already does this for a living. Offer to buy lunch in exchange for tips. Oh -- and see if you can do some practice runs at a high school or college game (or even practice session), too.

Cheers,

b&

P.S. I also understand that good knee pads are not optional. b&

P.P.S. Have fun! b&

+1

expatinasia

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2012, 02:09:07 AM »
Are you bringing 4 cameras?  This sounds a bit excessive to me.  I would leave the t4i at home.  I would also leave the EF-S 17-55 at home since it will only mount on the 7D, the only reason to swap that out with the 24-70mm would be for weight reduction. I would also leave the pancake home due to it's lack of versatility.

then in another reply

24-70mm for celebrations, fans, and stadium shots.  I usually find that most player celebrations would be farther away from you

Both great points from Richard Lane and his last point is very important to remember, especially for when they raise a cup or trophy etc.

Also remember the more equipment you have the more complicated and messy your day is going to be. I know guys that shoot entire matches with just a 70-200.

Also remember rain covers. You do not want to be stuck in heavy rain without any camera protection.

I have never heard of knee pads being used, as most decent stadiums have benches for the media to cram onto. Perhaps check with them, if they don't ask whether you can take your own collapsible.

And lastly, always remember who and want you are shooting for (or trying to impress) if it is a magazine, look at what they use on a regular basis and try and shoot in a similar style.

Most sports photographers aim for the action shots, punts (or kicks are easier) or tackles etc. Even crowd celebrations tend to be pretty focussed affairs so try and pick a group or just someone in the crowd that looks animated and would make a good subject and is easy to shoot from where you are.

Also, I really do NOT recommend leaving any equipment with a friend in the stands. There are many, many reasons for this.

I shoot sports quite frequently and love it, don't take too much, plan it through, and enjoy.

Ps. If I did have a little money to burn and you wanted to rent something. I would probably try and rent the 1DX and stick the 300 on that. With 12fps you are sure of getting enough shots.

Also, it never hurts to ring Canon and see if they can do anything. They can be very helpful at times.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 02:10:59 AM by expatinasia »
1D X + backup + different L lenses etc.

expo01

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2012, 05:08:40 AM »
You want the dream setup for football (soccer), here you go:

4*1DX (2 on you, 2 behind the goals)

2*14L
1*400 2.8 IS II (because you f'ing save 1.5kg compared to the old one) 300 is too short on FF (my opinion as a football photographer)
1*70-200 2.8 IS II (it's just way better than the version 1)
1*24-70 L II
1*16-35
1*8-15L

Gitzo 5540 or equivalent monopod
pocket wizards
1-2 flashes (always take flashes, just in case)
big ass peli-case
walkstool (camping seat, extremely important! must have)

some words of advice:

  - football/soccer is not american football. you can remain stationary for a full halftime (minus the few runs you do in case of penalty kicks, goal emotions, corners etc.).
  - with a 400, position yourself about 2/3 between the goal and the cornerflag (direction corner flag)
  - use the 400 as your main lens, switch to 70-200 if the players pass the 16 meter mark (2 bodies on you, else you miss it)
  - maybe lay down your 400 and 70-200, switch to a 8-15 and 16-35 move around to get a filled stadium short from one of the corners (maybe even a bit up, like half the rows or more) you want to show a massive, filled stadium. you can't go wrong with 1 or 2 fisheye shots, just don't overdo.
  - when your up there doing wide shots, be sure to keep an eye on the field...if a goal happens, just use the pocket wizard to capture it  ;D
  - take a few images of the fans
  - take a shot of the coaches (can also do before the kickoff when you're at the sideline to get the groupshot of the team)
  - take a groupshot of the team after they walk in before the kickoff (they normally stand in a line or pose in 2-3 rows)
  - all action sequences need the ball in the frame, emotion pics should be close-ups, keep the 4-eye rule in as many action shots as you can, position yourself to where the background is not filled with empty seats, try to keep an eye on ads in the background (sometimes you can get awesome shots with them, i.e: 1 player gets fouled and you catch him falling down, the ad behind him is for painkillers, that's just an outright awesome shot there!)

for any more questions, just reply here.

regards from europe


PS: I myself have almost completly switched from football/soccer to other photography areas, hence my trusty 1D4, 24-70 and 400 2.8 have been sold. I still do the occasional football/soccer match (just international games) but I can still get enough shots with the 5D3 and the 70-200. You can tell my new preference and area if you go past my bodies and lenses in the signature.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 05:13:32 AM by expo01 »
1DsIII | 5DIII | 20D | 70-200 2.8 II | 14 2.8 | 15 2.8 | 50 1.8 II | 85 1.2 | 100 2.8 | Elinchrom Outdoor and Indoor lots of Flashes from Canon and Nikon

drummstikk

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 06:18:56 AM »
Soccer action goes from right up your nose to tiny specks on the opposite corner of the field in a matter of seconds. I'd put together one body/lens combo that gives  you the most possible reach. In your case, that means the 300 2.8 on the 7D. I think you will find you do 90% of your photography with the longest lens in a soccer game. The 7D gives you enough resolution to do some cropping, so I'd probably leave off the 1.4X the majority of the time, but I would use it for some tight vertical "action portraits."

Then I'd put the 70-200 on either the 5D or the 1D2. Even though 8MP is kind of lean by modern standards, I might lean toward the 1D2 because the AF, even though it's several years older, may still actually be superior to the 5DIII. (I have no personal experience with 1D2 or 5D3, but my old 1D mark nothing seems to me to focus slightly more snappily than my 7D.) You will probably have the 70-200 hanging at your side most of the time, but want to pick it up and auto-focus with it on short notice, possibly with only one hand. If you are uncomfortable with the gap between 200mm on the zoom and the 480mm equivalent of the 300/7D combo, you can put the 1.4x on the zoom.

Your wide zoom will likely get very limited use, so put it on your "third string" body. Carrying 4 bodies seems unnecessarily burdensome to me. Just pick one lens for the third body (the 24-70 makes most sense to me) and maybe keep the ultra-wide zoom in a belt pouch just in case.

Excess fiddling with gear impedes sports photography. Setting some limitations and traveling lighter makes for a more rewarding experience, whether you are a hobbyist or pro.
"Focused. Or focused not. There is no 'almost.'"

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2012, 06:18:56 AM »

luoto

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2012, 10:54:02 AM »
How would you safely switch between the monopod and its lens and your other bodies, trying to hold a monopod between your knees at an angle whilst taking a picture seems a bit cumbersome... and not every place has exclusive space around you to quickly place it on the ground on its side whilst you are trying to keep up with the action? Or am I missing something?

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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2012, 11:52:20 AM »
I keep my setup very simple.  I shoot everything with either a 400 f/2.8L or 300 f/2.8L on my main camera, and then the 70-200L II IS on the other camera.  It's a pair of 1DX's, so FF, and this setup works well for me. 

I do notice the 400 f/2.8L I IS AF's much slower than the 300.  I have a higher miss rate with the 400, even on a 1DX.
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Re: Dream Package for Soccer???
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2012, 11:52:20 AM »