July 29, 2014, 09:52:44 PM

Author Topic: Shutter count request to Canon.  (Read 18473 times)

Ellen Schmidtee

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2012, 05:53:25 AM »
What if batterylife in pictures were as inaccurate as the shuttercount guarantee? They say my shutter lasts 400k which you, Neuro, and MANY others have used as an argument over the shutter durability of the 5d3. I'd be pretty angry if my shutter gave in at 60k and my 5d3 would do over half a million, no?

I would be a little pissed off too, but it's meaningless - a statistical fluke.

I bought a computer with an Intel processor that wouldn't install any version of Windows I've tried (at least 98, 2000, and XP). Intel QC missed one, the seller replaced it with a bit of argument, and the replacement worked for 5 years without as much as a hiccup.

Similar story with a SanDisk disk-on-key. Didn't stop me from buying SanDisk memory cards, which worked flawlessly.

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2012, 05:53:25 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2012, 08:22:45 AM »
What's the general opinion on why Canon hasn't added shutter count to the camera's firmware or EOS Utility?

Magic Lantern does it so I don't worry about it. But since it's an obvious thing to miss imho Canon is hiding the count to ...

a) keep user's ignorant about the wear on their gear (Or more people would shoot less (brackets...), buy more aps-c or 2x 5d2 instead of 1x5d3) and...

b) to keep used gear prices high - and this is one of the main arguments for people to buy L glass and expensive bodies ("If I don't need it later on I can still sell it with little money lost"). If the number would show in the firmware, every eos body offer would have to be accompanied by the shutter count.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2012, 08:42:25 AM »
What if batterylife in pictures were as inaccurate as the shuttercount guarantee?

Where does Canon say it's a guarantee?

But since it's an obvious thing to miss imho Canon is hiding the count to ...

I think you give them too much credit, or too little.  Why does there have to be anything sinister, as implied by 'hiding'?  Granted, it could be true.  But it's equally likely they just haven't bothered to implement the feature, or that marketing told them not to, so they could trot it out as a 1D X feature.  The T1i, T2i, and T3i all have the same shutter lag and VF blackout time, and it seems likely that they use the same shutter mechanism (why would Canon spend money to redesign?).  Canon published that the T1i has a shutter durability of 100,000 cycles, but they did not publish any rating for the T2i or T3i - are they hiding that, too?

There are lots of 'obvious things' that could be implemented in any software package.  Most electronic systems generate and store lots of data that the user never sees.  Your car dealer can connect to the onboard computer and read out the number of times the car has been started, how many times you didn't buckle your seatbelt, etc.  Should all of that show up on the dashboard display?

I doubt knowing the shutter count would make many people shoot less.  Even the bottom end Rebel/xxxD bodies have a 50K durability rating, and I doubt many owners of those cameras come anywhere close to taking 50K shots over the lifetime of the camera.
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atosk930

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2012, 11:18:15 AM »
What if batterylife in pictures were as inaccurate as the shuttercount guarantee?

Where does Canon say it's a guarantee?

But since it's an obvious thing to miss imho Canon is hiding the count to ...

....
Even the bottom end Rebel/xxxD bodies have a 50K durability rating, and I doubt many owners of those cameras come anywhere close to taking 50K shots over the lifetime of the camera.

FWIW, my Rebel xti is approaching upwards of 70k. Shutter durability is pure luck in my opinion.
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Marsu42

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2012, 11:44:14 AM »
But since it's an obvious thing to miss imho Canon is hiding the count to ...
Why does there have to be anything sinister, as implied by 'hiding'?  Granted, it could be true.  But it's equally likely they just haven't bothered to implement the feature, or that marketing told them not to, so they could trot it out as a 1D X feature.

Ok, maybe the English word "hiding" has a conspiracy theory connotation, that wasn't my intent, maybe I should have called it "not implemented due to marketing request", nothing sinister about that I hope.

But still not knowing the shutter count is like having a car w/o a mileage meter, this is just the very basic lifetime information and I do not believe they just forgot it - they do make a lot of fuzz in the specs about the differences between their bodies, no matter how long the real shutter lifetime might be.

Even the bottom end Rebel/xxxD bodies have a 50K durability rating, and I doubt many owners of those cameras come anywhere close to taking 50K shots over the lifetime of the camera.

... unless you use Magic Lantern's focus stacking and bracketing, that's like 20+ exposures per shot, if it's a hdr scene multiply that by 2+. That's why my 60d now nearly has 100k cycles :-\

neuroanatomist

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2012, 12:08:33 PM »
Even the bottom end Rebel/xxxD bodies have a 50K durability rating, and I doubt many owners of those cameras come anywhere close to taking 50K shots over the lifetime of the camera.

... unless you use Magic Lantern's focus stacking and bracketing, that's like 20+ exposures per shot, if it's a hdr scene multiply that by 2+. That's why my 60d now nearly has 100k cycles :-\

Right.  But, do you think your usage patterns are representative of the general population?
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emag

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 12:44:51 PM »
The only time I've ever given thought to shutter count is for time lapse on my 40D.  I'll have the shutter replaced if it fails because it's worth it to ME - this camera's been modified for astrophotography and has already been serviced for shutter release button and USB board replacement.  My 60D is not modified - if I wear out the shutter it won't be for many years and may not be worth repairing.  With Magic Lantern and FPS override, I'm not likely to wear out the shutter anytime soon.  Shutter count is (to me) analagous to odometer reading and physical appearance of a used car bought from an individual.  High mileage and a neglected interior tell me something.  High mileage, maintenance records and a well cared for interior tell me another.  Very low mileage tells me something else.  So far, all my cameras have been bought new, if I buy used I will ask for a shutter count.  Superfluous info for some, but it's my money and nothing personal.

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 12:44:51 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2012, 02:36:55 PM »
Right.  But, do you think your usage patterns are representative of the general population?

I really can't say, but I also return with 1000 pictures after a whole day outside in the summer when discovering things like the abandoned soviet barracks around Berlin. And when I recently shot an 1h (friendly) street brawl I had 500+ exposures, too, some 6fps series, but mostly no time to think because everything was moving so fast. But maybe that's just me.

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2012, 03:59:45 PM »
Shutter count is all about resale. Lower the shutter count, the more attractive the purchase...regardless of whether it means anything. It's all about perceived value.

The auto analogies in the earlier post are inaccurate. NADA, BLUE BOOK, and other used car valuation systems give credit or devalue based on mileage at the time of sale. Attesting to this, I sold my wife's Nissan xTerra last week for just barely under book value, which gave a $1200 credit for low mileage.  I can't imagine someone paying the same price for a camera with 100,000 shutter activations vs. one with 5000, irrespective of the same outward condition.

For those who are unaware, this is what the shutter count returns for the $1.59 EOSCount system online (Unfortunately, only compatible with Windows PC's for the moment)


marekjoz

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2012, 05:16:30 PM »
As mentioned above, shutter count doesn't show the whole picture, just some hint. If it's the huge number, like 80% of expected shutter count life, then it should be a warning, but if the number is low, you can't say anything.
Someone wrote above that he sold 5d2 used for video only with low shutter count. And this is such a hypothetical situation - how many hours this the electronics and sensor work in video mode? How many pixels in the sensor become "warmer and warmer"? Was the camera used in high humidity or high temperature environment? Was it used in a rain? etc.

I know what OP required from Canon, but seriously I tend to agree with neuro and others here, that the shutter count doesn't show the whole picture and could be more misleading than helpful. To make these statistics more useful to estimate the used gear's value, it should cotain more info, like someone has mentioned above.
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drmikeinpdx

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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2012, 12:52:37 PM »
I'm having a hard time selling my 5D classic for a good price, because I can't tell buyers what the shutter count is.  Based on this experience, I would have to say that the lack of a shutter count feature reduces the resale value.

I could send it in to Canon, but the last time I sent it in for focus adjustment they charged me $200.  They did include a shutter count report at that price, but I had to specifically request it.  I had just purchased the camera used and guess what?  I wanted to know the true shutter count!  LOL
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Re: Shutter count request to Canon.
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2012, 12:52:37 PM »