Looks like the 6D may not be so bad after all

[x-vision]

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it.   

I think you nailed it.

Between an overpriced 5DIII and an underspec'd 6D, I'm choosing ... to spend on neither.

[EchoLocation]

Indeed - I've got €5000 lying around waiting to be spent on Canon equipment, but the current €3000 5d3 + €2500 24-70 (excluding equipment like cf cards yadayada) simply don't seem like a very sweet offer to me.

I have exactly the same problem

me 3... i had a 5DC and 24-105 and had about 3000 dollars to upgrade my gear. I really wanted the 24-70, but the new price was just too high... I really wanted the 5DIII, but same story(and the D800 price and reviews weren't exactly making the 5DIII seem any sweeter.)
Anyways, I'm living in China, so some things aren't so easy... but, I ended up trading my 5DC and 24-105 for a mint 24-70 Nikon, then i bought a D700 with a shutter count of 3000 for $1500(with an extra battery.)
I just spent 2 weeks shooting everyday in Japan..... and I could not be happier. The D700 dominates all Canons outside of the 5DIII and 1 series on AF. The image quality is just as good or better. The AF alone has increased my keeper rate from 40% to over 60 or 70%. Me and my wife would never consider switching to anything but the 5DIII, but I'd be pretty bummed about losing the pop up flash, which I actually love.
At 3000 dollars for a used D700 and 24-70, there is absolutely no need to spend over 5000 dollars on a 5DIII and 24-70 II(unless you need video, or MP.)
I had been waiting for over a year to make a purchase, begging Canon to make a FF 7D.... but alas, the 6D was just wayyy too little and too late. I liked the D600, but I couldn't justify spending 800 dollars more(I'm in China) for a camera that I wasn't sure had better AF than the D700(AF was my biggest gripe with Canon.)
Anyways, in a year or so I might consider the D800, or maybe even the RX1, but for the moment, I am thrilled with my switch to Nikon and the D700.

[xps]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

[tron]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

[xps]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

Yes, indeed! I hope that an alternative to the 7D soon appears. I hope for an 7D MK2. But, if you read the postings, there is some doubt about that.

A Camera in the class of about 2000€ would be great. So I can replace the Cam sooner, then when I have to spent more money for it. Crop would be good (more focal lenght) - with an better IQ of the 7D follower.


5D3 is an alternative for it. But I would like to use my 100-400 with an 1.4 extender. 400mm is not near enough for the living and steel birds. IQ & AF are much better, but I would loose much focal length.

Still looking on the 6D - maybe it is better then everybody says. Lets wait for the first reviews

[RustyTheGeek]

I've compared the 6D specs, read reviews, etc.  In general, I think...

The 5D3 is...
- easy to review/compare, it can be held, purchased and used now.
- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses.  What camera item isn't?
- aimed at Pros that might overpay because they need it.
- a FF camera, not best for sports.  Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?
- a wonderful camera in every other respect for its intended market.

The 6D is...
- impossible to review/compare, it can't be held, purchased or used now.
- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses.  What camera item isn't?
- aimed at Enthusiasts that might overpay because they want it.
- a FF camera, not best for sports.  Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?
- a wonderful camera in every other respect for its intended market.

My thought on what 'pros' want...
It cracks me up when I hear all the remarks about 5D Mark III features that are missing from the 6D and that 'pros' will not be happy with the 6D.  Most 'pros' will just use the 6D like any other camera - to make pictures.  They will adapt to whatever the camera can or can't do.  Or they will simply ignore it.  They likely are too busy working to discuss it at length in forums.  The answer to all the lacking feature complaints is to buy the Mark III or the X.  A 'pro' will buy what works best for them whether they shoot weddings, produce 'high end' video or whatever just like they have done for years with lesser equipment.  My guess is that most 'pros' wish they could afford half the new equipment that so many enthusiasts buy with abandon and 'review'.

High Canon prices?
The answer to the high prices is a used FF 5Dc or 5DII.  Whatever the case, any DSLR made in the last 10 years will make wonderful pictures in the right hands.  I agree that new Canon products in the past year are overpriced.  Esp the new EF prime lenses!  So don't buy the stuff and it will get cheaper.  Unfortunately, if high prices for new toys stopped buyers, Apple would have been out of business years ago.  So here we are, faced with a high priced market.

I don't consider myself a fanboy.  I just shoot humble pictures with a used FF 5Dc (love it) and various crop cameras like the 30D, 40D and 60D.  I've invested in some great lenses.  Now I'm getting in the mood for a FF upgrade to improve my low light shooting.  I've waited for the 5D3 for a long time but it came out too expensive for now/new.  Maybe I'll get one used someday.  Maybe sooner I can get a 6D without having to wait as long since it will likely work fine for what I do.  I can probably adapt to the feature limits.  Whatever the case, I see no reason to totally dismiss the 6D without more facts based on actual use.  I'm sure not going to toss my whole Canon system over a few features and pixel peeping.  'nuff said.

[Marsu42]

- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses.  What camera item isn't?

Rebels like the 650d offer an excellent value. And from Canon!

- a FF camera, not best for sports.  Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?

I guess a 1d4 is too expensive and a 7d2 has more reach but is limited by the iso noise if you want high shutter speeds.

My guess is that most 'pros' wish they could afford half the new equipment that so many enthusiasts buy with abandon and 'review'.

Most likely this forum is heavily biased towards very expensive gear, I don't think there are that many amateurs around with 1dx+70-200/2.8Lis2 for shooting their children. So pros are likely to have the better gear (that doesn't mean the newest), if you look at other photography forums posters consider even a 60d extremely expensive and overkill for their needs.

I'm sure not going to toss my whole Canon system over a few features and pixel peeping.

Most people here won't - the general question is if and when Canon will ever get more competitive again in the enthusiast segment in comparison to the competition - and if you haven't got tons of canon lenses around imho that's a valid concern.

[RustyTheGeek]

Good points.  In general the U.S. electronics buyer market is very good to all manufacturers of tech gear.  Phones, A/V, camera, computer, etc.  It's unfortunate that this buyer market is so impatient and willing to pay whatever is charged for new gear.  If everyone was a bit more thrifty and frugal, I bet the same equipment would be 20%-30% less across the board.  But until that happens, prices will continue to be high and won't drop for a longer period.  Simple supply and demand.  We supply a lot of money and don't demand enough in return IMHO.  And of course it's all Apple's fault!   

Another thought... everyone has a lot of pent up frustration over the high price of the 5D3 after so long a wait.  I think perhaps the 6D is getting abuse because what everyone wants is the 5D3 FF and features at a cheaper price and the 6D FF isn't quite up to that level.  If the 6D were viewed as a midpoint between the 5D2 and 5D3 or a 5D2 replacement, it would make a little more sense at least price wise.  For the money, Canon should have provided a little bit more AF muscle and everyone would be happier.  But I guess it is what it is.  So be it!

[ajschot]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

Not true, i tried it on the Photokina there were 6 6D's to try, also here inteh Netherlands there are pro workshops where you can also try the 6D. And yes i know for sure it is there and yes i really had an 6D in y hands and played with it for almost one hour!

[tron]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

Yes, indeed! I hope that an alternative to the 7D soon appears. I hope for an 7D MK2. But, if you read the postings, there is some doubt about that.

A Camera in the class of about 2000€ would be great. So I can replace the Cam sooner, then when I have to spent more money for it. Crop would be good (more focal lenght) - with an better IQ of the 7D follower.


5D3 is an alternative for it. But I would like to use my 100-400 with an 1.4 extender. 400mm is not near enough for the living and steel birds. IQ & AF are much better, but I would loose much focal length.

Still looking on the 6D - maybe it is better then everybody says. Lets wait for the first reviews

Yeh! I understand. I am focal length limited too. But I do love FF so I bought a 5D3 to keep company to my 5D2 

[wilddreamer]

For the nikon fans boy, its the same crap that u said that nikon 800D is $500 cheaper than 5D mark3. Just stop the crap

[xps]

There is much truth in the postings before.
- Our Economy "lives" from innovation and the desire to own the best and newest things.
- On an very big recent Canon workshop , some participants claimed the high prices. The answer: We need the money to make our products better - and to make our shareholders lucky. And THERE IS an "Apple" effect. Even if they would dobuble the price of the 5D3, the camera would be a cash cow. (In my opinion:  It is just an question of marketing. You just have to make the customers think that they NEED this Camera. )

- Why am I looking for better gear? Because I try to conceal my lack of knowlegde and skills with better equipment. And sometimes this solution works.

[jbayston]

I know a couple of pro photographers who have bought the 5D MK2 recently, taking advantage of the price drop, on the basis that the Mk3 improvements don't amount to much...

[WSMyles]

I know a couple of pro photographers who have bought the 5D MK2 recently, taking advantage of the price drop, on the basis that the Mk3 improvements don't amount to much...

I have been considering the same thing - and would give it serious thought if there WAS a price drop here in Oz.  The 5d2 is more than enough camera for my non-dogsport ambitions... but as usual, the "drops," "offers" and "rebates" never made it here.  Unless I misread something, it's not so much a $400 drop in price as a $400 rebate.

I remember well the US reaction to the intro pricing of the 5dm3.  "$3500.  SHOCK!  HORROR!"
Mine was "I'd gladly pay that, rather than $4299"  - the $US and $AUS being essentially the same in value then and now.

AFAIK, the best "offer" Canon Australia has had in some time is a "free camera bag."  in 2011.  All lenses and bodies strictly at retail, and a good 10-20% above typical US prices at that, even after tax.  I understand it's at least as bad in the Eurozone and the UK.

Rebates?  I don't remember a single one as long as I've been looking, and that predates the mark II!

US customers don't know how good life is for them.  Sony managed to price the A99 lower here than the US...

[xps]

Who was able to take some shots with the 6D?

How was tha AF working? Fast? Accurate?

About a dozen of persons from our Club has been on the Photokina. One dozen persons and 3 dozens of opinions on the quality of the Camera. Some told that the AF was slow, others it was fast. Some told me, that the AF was not able to locate the right distance to the choosen object and changed to the background.
What was YOUR opinion to the AF?