Once you go "L" you'll never go back....

[awinphoto]

Usually when I shoot with a second shooter, I tell them exactly what I expect them to shoot and how I want them to shoot... My last wedding, amateur, good but not great photographer... He shot 7d and 5d2 and used 135L and 24-105....  It was slightly low light and 90-95% of his 5d2 shots were unusable and he had a slightly better keeper rate with the 7d...  Long story short, despite telling him exactly what I wanted, I shot similar stuff just in case, and for the most part, I ended up using only a handful of his shots and most of mine...  It was a great learning experience for him and I sat down with him afterwards and critiqued his shooting with him no bars held...  He learned quickly... the second shoot I had with him, it was an outdoors event and better lighting, but his keeper rate was much much better...  In the end, gear can be crucial, but also you much teach your second shooters, talk to them, and guide them... If they dont know why what they did was wrong or doesn't work, then they would never know and wont improve... 

[UrbanImages]

Actually I agree with this to a point. I own non-L primes such as the 50 1.4, 85 1.8, 100 2.8 macro and they are on point. I also have the 28-135 and that lense is sharp as well. I'm picky when it comes to lenses, the only non Canon one I own is a Sigma 15mm fisheye. For me it's all L from here on in for zooms. In the end it's the creativity and knowledge of the photographer.  But top shelf well chosen tools make this easier.

[crasher8]

Usually when I shoot with a second shooter, I tell them exactly what I expect them to shoot and how I want them to shoot... My last wedding, amateur, good but not great photographer... He shot 7d and 5d2 and used 135L and 24-105....  It was slightly low light and 90-95% of his 5d2 shots were unusable and he had a slightly better keeper rate with the 7d...  Long story short, despite telling him exactly what I wanted, I shot similar stuff just in case, and for the most part, I ended up using only a handful of his shots and most of mine...  It was a great learning experience for him and I sat down with him afterwards and critiqued his shooting with him no bars held...  He learned quickly... the second shoot I had with him, it was an outdoors event and better lighting, but his keeper rate was much much better...  In the end, gear can be crucial, but also you much teach your second shooters, talk to them, and guide them... If they dont know why what they did was wrong or doesn't work, then they would never know and wont improve...

awin…just for kicks, what were some of the mistakes he made the first time around? Metering? AF? WB?

[ishdakuteb]

Usually when I shoot with a second shooter, I tell them exactly what I expect them to shoot and how I want them to shoot... My last wedding, amateur, good but not great photographer... He shot 7d and 5d2 and used 135L and 24-105....  It was slightly low light and 90-95% of his 5d2 shots were unusable and he had a slightly better keeper rate with the 7d...  Long story short, despite telling him exactly what I wanted, I shot similar stuff just in case, and for the most part, I ended up using only a handful of his shots and most of mine...  It was a great learning experience for him and I sat down with him afterwards and critiqued his shooting with him no bars held...  He learned quickly... the second shoot I had with him, it was an outdoors event and better lighting, but his keeper rate was much much better...  In the end, gear can be crucial, but also you much teach your second shooters, talk to them, and guide them... If they dont know why what they did was wrong or doesn't work, then they would never know and wont improve...

here i am trying to learn.  let me know as if you think that what i think is right (thanks in advance).  i am not sure what he paired his set with.  as for me i would go with:

1. 5d mark II with 135L (iso 6400, open wide)
2. 7d with 24-105mm (iso 6400, open wide).  must use flash on this one a long with -1 and 1/3-2/3 flash power)

7d pair with 70-200mm is II is perfect in low light situation.  if light situation is too low, search for spot light assist such as shooting closed to video man... kinda cheating huh (having been using this pair in low light number of time, not really having problem with it eventhough i have violated speed all the time (down to 1/50), but thanks to canon IS system...

[Dylan777]

"Once you go "L" you'll never go back.... " 

+1....it's hard to go back to non L. I really enjoy 24-70 II & 70-200 f2.8 IS II results. The only lens left in my bag that is not L is 50mm f1.4.  I'm thinking selling it and will get the 35mm L this coming x-mas.

I just did lens microadjustment yesterday on my 16-35 II. The results were -5 @ wider end and +3 @ near end. The lens now is a amazing.

[awinphoto]

Usually when I shoot with a second shooter, I tell them exactly what I expect them to shoot and how I want them to shoot... My last wedding, amateur, good but not great photographer... He shot 7d and 5d2 and used 135L and 24-105....  It was slightly low light and 90-95% of his 5d2 shots were unusable and he had a slightly better keeper rate with the 7d...  Long story short, despite telling him exactly what I wanted, I shot similar stuff just in case, and for the most part, I ended up using only a handful of his shots and most of mine...  It was a great learning experience for him and I sat down with him afterwards and critiqued his shooting with him no bars held...  He learned quickly... the second shoot I had with him, it was an outdoors event and better lighting, but his keeper rate was much much better...  In the end, gear can be crucial, but also you much teach your second shooters, talk to them, and guide them... If they dont know why what they did was wrong or doesn't work, then they would never know and wont improve...

awin…just for kicks, what were some of the mistakes he made the first time around? Metering? AF? WB?

A lot of his downfall, especially the first shoot was technique...  too slow of shutter speeds in certain situations would lead to camera shake, Shots of the bride walking down the isle the 5d2's AF couldn't track or keep her in focus... I had him in front of the bride near the groom and I was in back getting the entrance portraits and got her walking down the isle from the back...  his 5d2 just wasn't up for the task.  He tried the 7d and 135 and shoot around 1/100 and 1/125 but would get camera shake where you can tell he got a good shot IF it was in focus.  Metering, he was alright for the most part but wasn't quick enough with his reciprocals to compensate for a faster shutter...  Then in the reception, I slapped a 580 on his cameras, and he shot the ambient too close to  normal, and so he was nearly at 1/15 or so shutter at F4 and ISO near 5000-6000 give or take (reception they practically turned off the house lights and had these funky neon accent lights lighting the room) and the shutter was too slow so he would have the properly exposed subject and then a ghost of the motion blur of the regular exposure... Going into it, I knew his skill level and knew I was the primary and treated it as a thing where anything he can add to my product would be considered gravy and I didn't let myself get complacent in thinking "he will get the shot so I dont need to worry"...  He did get a few really cool detail shots I missed and all in all, I think I was able to deliver a solid product to my clients, and as i can train and get his technique down, he can be a really good second shooter. 

[pdirestajr]

Except for the 40mm 2.8. That lens is rad!

[awinphoto]

Usually when I shoot with a second shooter, I tell them exactly what I expect them to shoot and how I want them to shoot... My last wedding, amateur, good but not great photographer... He shot 7d and 5d2 and used 135L and 24-105....  It was slightly low light and 90-95% of his 5d2 shots were unusable and he had a slightly better keeper rate with the 7d...  Long story short, despite telling him exactly what I wanted, I shot similar stuff just in case, and for the most part, I ended up using only a handful of his shots and most of mine...  It was a great learning experience for him and I sat down with him afterwards and critiqued his shooting with him no bars held...  He learned quickly... the second shoot I had with him, it was an outdoors event and better lighting, but his keeper rate was much much better...  In the end, gear can be crucial, but also you much teach your second shooters, talk to them, and guide them... If they dont know why what they did was wrong or doesn't work, then they would never know and wont improve...

here i am trying to learn.  let me know as if you think that what i think is right (thanks in advance).  i am not sure what he paired his set with.  as for me i would go with:

1. 5d mark II with 135L (iso 6400, open wide)
2. 7d with 24-105mm (iso 6400, open wide).  must use flash on this one a long with -1 and 1/3-2/3 flash power)

7d pair with 70-200mm is II is perfect in low light situation.  if light situation is too low, search for spot light assist such as shooting closed to video man... kinda cheating huh (having been using this pair in low light number of time, not really having problem with it eventhough i have violated speed all the time (down to 1/50), but thanks to canon IS system...

Assuming upgrading cameras to the 5d3 is out of the question...  I would almost swap the two lenses... put the 135 on the 7d and 24-105 on the 5d2...  6400 on a 7d can get quite ugly very quickly and usable shots may not be easy to find...  I would have the 7d and 135 on as a detail camera...  tell the second shooter (assuming he's shooting the 7d) to get accent shots that would naturally be filler in your album such as but not limited to a nice close up of the mother and or father of the bride tearing up, grooms expression as the bride walks down the isle, settings, tables, silverware, food, people laughing/crying... hugs/kisses/etc... emotional stuff sells well.   then use the 5d2 and 24-105 to get overalls, groups, The main story telling camera...  details if you can...  I would use a 430 or 580 even if you use it just for AF assist as you will need it with the 5d2 in low light. 

With my 5d3, I was able to shoot around ISO 16000-20000 during the ceremony (no flash) and even on 11x14's you can barely see any noise... blew my mind.   If you do a lot of weddings, I would save up every penny possible to get the 5d3 if I were you, but with that 2 camera set-up, that's how I would run things...

[RLPhoto]

Ok...This is more of a rant than anything....so here goes!

NEVER EVER...EVER...EVER have an amateur, shooting with a different camera brand and very poor quality lenses shoot a wedding with you  ( you had sympathy for this person and wanted to help them grow as a photographer and allowed them to assist you, photographing)

Holy smokes!!!  I'm using L glass plus a 5D MK II  and in order to get the quality of their picture to something half decent and that looks like a hint of my pictures, talk about POST POST POST...Geesh!

They were using a Pentax K-X and a Tamron AF-70-300.  Now before everyone jumps on my case, I did provide a canon 40D with Canon Lenses ( NON-L) for him to use, however, it was sooo different than his own camera, he couldn't figure it out within the few hours he was there.

This is not a rip on the photographer, he actually has a great eye for composition....he just needs a better system....sorry..

Short of great canon (non-L primes) 85 1.8, heck the 50 mm 1.8 Mark 1....I don't know I'll ever buy poor quality lenses...

sorry....more of a rant...lol

Have a good night.

I have a 2nd shooter assignment this saturday but I wouldn't bring anything less than my Best.

[neuroanatomist]

"Once you go "L" you'll never go back.... " 

+1....it's hard to go back to non L. I really enjoy 24-70 II & 70-200 f2.8 IS II results. The only lens left in my bag that is not L is 50mm f1.4.  I'm thinking selling it and will get the 35mm L this coming x-mas.

I have a couple of non-L lenses - the 40mm f/2.8 pancake and the MP-E 65mm.  I have no real interest in any other non-L lenses...

[keithfullermusic]

The 50mm 1.4 & 100mm 2.8 have got to be some of the sweetest lenses out there, and neither are L.  But, there are no other non-L lenses that I have my eye on.

[picturesbyme]

“All generalizations are false, including this one.”

 

[awinphoto]

“All generalizations are false, including this one.”

 

Except when it isn't, haha =)

[bkorcel]

I only have L lenses now.  I've looked back at some older non-L shots as well as used an associates non-L lenses for a bit and I can say I am honestly spoiled.  No going back now.  As soon as the Hubble Space Telescope goes up for sale, I will place my bid. 

[Hagen]

And just _exactly_ how were these images insufficient?

Nice rant, but how do you expect us to communicate intelligently without _facts_? So, facts please.

I agree about the L glass, but if you think all non-L is insufficient, you are incorrect.