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Author Topic: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.  (Read 12008 times)

ITshooter

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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 02:42:44 PM »
The 1DC is NOT identical inside, they did something for more effective heat dissipation.  I think if you did get the 1DC firmware on a 1DX it would probably catch on fire (maybe not that bad, but I'm sure it would shut down at the very least).

As for the price difference, I think alot of it was due to R&D costs and the fact that they'll sell a lot less of these than they will any other DSLR body.  But I've heard nothing but praise from people that have pulled the trigger.  It's definitely not the camera for everything (no one camera is), but for some things it will be very useful.

Canon's not going to let us find out, but I'm curious what the 1DX can do. Canon aggressively threatened to prosecute hackers who mess with the 1DX firmware. The company hasn't taken this step before, so I imagine the 1DX is capable of filming 4K, at least capable enough that hackers would feel motivated to try. Whether that means the camera will overheat and shut off after two minutes is another question. But I bet some people would live with that sort of limitation if it meant getting APS-H 4K for less than $12,000. Then again, I think the 1DC's 35mm crop mode is a pretty big deal too, and that's almost certainly something the 1DX could replicate, optimized heat sink or not. Given that Canon has decided that only the C-series camera are entitled to 1000+ lines of resolution, protecting that 35mm crop mode might be part of the plan to.

Whatever the actual engineering behind the cameras, I agree that the 1DC, for all the flak it generated over its price, is garnering very positive reviews. Doesn't fit everybody, but for specific workflows, it's a killer camera. It'll be interested to see if a 5DC or 7DC appears. If Canon ditched 4K but offered the sharp Super 35mm mode with a decent codec, I think a lot of people would be interested.
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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 02:42:44 PM »

KyleSTL

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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 04:21:27 PM »
Canon's not going to let us find out, but I'm curious what the 1DX can do. Canon aggressively threatened to prosecute hackers who mess with the 1DX firmware. The company hasn't taken this step before, so I imagine the 1DX is capable of filming 4K, at least capable enough that hackers would feel motivated to try. Whether that means the camera will overheat and shut off after two minutes is another question. But I bet some people would live with that sort of limitation if it meant getting APS-H 4K for less than $12,000. Then again, I think the 1DC's 35mm crop mode is a pretty big deal too, and that's almost certainly something the 1DX could replicate, optimized heat sink or not. Given that Canon has decided that only the C-series camera are entitled to 1000+ lines of resolution, protecting that 35mm crop mode might be part of the plan to.

Whatever the actual engineering behind the cameras, I agree that the 1DC, for all the flak it generated over its price, is garnering very positive reviews. Doesn't fit everybody, but for specific workflows, it's a killer camera. It'll be interested to see if a 5DC or 7DC appears. If Canon ditched 4K but offered the sharp Super 35mm mode with a decent codec, I think a lot of people would be interested.
Then what will we colloquially call the 5D Mark I?  That [unofficial] name is already taken.  I watched the recent video about capturing individual frames from 4K for photo printing and thought that it was amazing, but I'm astounded by two aspects of this new means of capture: 1) the amount of data 4K video produces [~4GB/min for the 1D C], and 2) the time-consuming process [I assume] it would take to select individual frames within video footage (this is before any post-processing of the image).
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cookinghusband

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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2013, 05:10:03 AM »
There was recently a long thread regarding the reality that the Canon 1Dc is mechanically identical to the 1Dx and is simply a firmware difference... that costs an additional $6000.

Most placed the blame on Canon; calling it a ripoff and gouging. BUT... that is NOT the case.

As it turns out, this is in response to European Union rules. The EU considers 4k video, even on a still camera, as a Professional VIDEO camera, and the taxes, duties, and other trade tariffs are excessive. Canon cannot sell the 1Dc in Europe as a Still Camera.  This is EXACTLY the same reason that still cameras like the 1Dx have a video recording limitation of 29:59 minutes. At 30:00 capability, it becomes a "Video Camera" under EU rules.

This is screwing non-EU consumers because Canon is wary of getting slammed for violating EU rules, and probably afraid that offering the firmware upgrade only in non-EU countries would cause an underground blackmarket of product making its way to the EU. (Much like the graymarket here)

There IS a potential solution that I thought of....one that could solve the geographical issue. It's not something that Canon probably would have thought of though.. (Canon is not know for thinking "outside the box")

They could upgrade the 1Dx's with firmware that would REQUIRE the use of a Canon GP-E1 GPS unit that would have to be on the camera in order to film in 4X.  The firmware would bar the use of 4X when the GPS unit showed the location to be anywhere within the EU... or within any OTHER country that had the same type of penalizing tariffs.  Simple, and easy to do in firmware. I'd pay $1000 for the upgrade and buy the GP-E1 if that were the case.

Thoughts?

Who records 4k video in longer than 30 minute chunks? I don't believe this is the slightest bit of the reason.

And are you telling me that all video and camcorders start at $6000 in the EU??????
I do live event and concert recording with my 1DC. I wish I can record 4K video in more then 32mins chunk.If I have a 256GB card I sure will record 64mins continuously, you never know when you will miss something the few seconds you start and stop the camera.

It is just a extra tariff problem of 29.?? min (actually I thought it was US not the EU)

PS the record time limit of the 1 DC is memory card size  only

paul13walnut5

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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2013, 05:32:09 AM »
There was recently a long thread regarding the reality that the Canon 1Dc is mechanically identical to the 1Dx and is simply a firmware difference... that costs an additional $6000.

I don't know if it is or isn't electronically or mechanically the same.  And I don't care.

I'm really interested in the 'simple' firmware difference.

Can you write firmware or processing alogorythms for temporal and spatial compression etc?
I'm sure the magic lantern guys will have a chuckle at that 'simple' bit too!

My office mac would cost around £10k to replace, around £6k of that is 'simply' software.  But my Mac wouldn't be worth anything to me without that software.  See what I'm getting at?

The 1DC is a limited market product, so market forces apply, economies of scale apply and absorbtion of R&D costs apply.  Oh and Canon, like Nikon, like Blackmagic, in fact unless you are the worlds last cardinal altruist, I bet you expect to get paid for your work as well?  For what it's worth I think the 1DC is a 'wrong' product.  Wrong form factor for a video device costing 10k.  Folk will accept limitations if they are getting a lot of bang for their buck, but 10k is too much to spend against things like the Sony F's which are dedicated video devices with conventional switchgear etc.

Quote
This is screwing non-EU consumers because Canon is wary of getting slammed for violating EU rules, and probably afraid that offering the firmware upgrade only in non-EU countries would cause an underground blackmarket of product making its way to the EU. (Much like the graymarket here)

Emmm, the underworld blackmarket and the graymarket are different things, and both exist quite independantly in the EU and US.

I'm not being funny, but I've bought quite a bit of graymarket gear.  I would be really disturbed if I thought the vendors were re-investing my cash in prostitutes, people smuggling and heroin dealing.

Harry Muff

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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2013, 07:11:31 AM »
Hasn't there been a tear down yet of the two cameras? ifixit are famed for stripping down every new gadget, why don't they give it a go?
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Re: Some clarity on the 1Dx = 1Dc minus firmware... and a solution.
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2013, 07:11:31 AM »