Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]

[sagittariansrock]

This is what will get my check book out:
1. Low noise at low ISO, high ISO capable sensor
2. Same or higher frame rate
3. Same or higher MP- but only if point 1 is satisfied
4. Two CF card slots
5. Same or better AF (5DIII level?)
6. Same or better build quality
This is not too much to ask, and given the rumors of a brand new sensor and the 46MP FF, I am guessing they are more than expected.
Besides, it is Canon's fault that I am asking for all this to upgrade- it is they who built the awesome 7D!
I am guessing Canon will also include Wi-fi, maybe even GPS, and some other doo-dads in order to lure unsure buyers, curb perpetual whiners (why didn't they add this if they have it in 6D), and increase the MSRP- but I don't care about those.

Buy a 5D3 then.

I don't understand why a lot of people here think Canon owes us to sell a body that has all these wonderful features and would cost us peanuts.

I can't begin to imagine if people like these were running Canon's product development and marketing, Canon would only be selling 2 DSLR bodies - 1 costing ~$5k, the other ~$1.8k. These will have killer features nobody else can match for the price and sell like pancakes for a year. After which Canon goes bankrupt.

You clearly misread, misinterpreted or misunderstood. I am perfectly happy with my 7D and that is why only if there is a marked improvement in ISO capabilities would I consider upgrading. Also, it is important that they don't mess up things that are already very good in the 7D, like the AF, fps, MP and build quality. Besides, there was no comment about price. The 7DII will obviously be more expensive that the 7D. Only companies like Apple who already overprice their stuff can afford to bring out upgrades with the same price.
You should not make ignorant comments about buying a 5DIII either. You should look at the specs of the 5DIII and ask yourself if all the above points are met by that camera. If I wanted it, I wouldn't be waiting for your advice.
I understand that there is lot of angry people in the forum against Canon and their marketing policies, but I am not one of them, and I won't take it if someone makes personal comments knowing little and understanding even less.

@wookiee2cu: When I say "same or better AF", I mean I am happy with the current level of AF in the 7D, although I won't be sad if they decide to make it even better. 5DIII was just a reference for "better". But you might know more about Canon's policies about AF technology than I do...

[jondave]

You clearly misread, misinterpreted or misunderstood.

Except for the faster fps, what you wanted looked like a 5D3. (And dual CF on a prosumer body? No way.) Happy for you to prove me wrong - so what specs and price do you want the 7D2 to have?

[c.d.embrey]

If 18.1MP is enough for the $6,799.00 EOS 1D X, why would a 7D2 need more megapixels then it has now (18.0MP)

The $5,999.95 Nikon D4 is 16.2MP.  Today, it looks like 16-18 megapixel is the "sweet spot" for pro cameras.

If they made a 70D, that was more like a 40D than a 60D, I'd be interested A $2,000.00 plus 7D2 wouldn't interest me at all YMMV.

[Famateur]

As an amateur/hobbyist/enthusiast, I'm disappointed with this rumor. I've been waiting, saving and hoping for a 70D to be announced that would fit my needs and fill the price gap between T4i and 7D.

If the rumor is true, then here's my best guess at what Canon is up to:

• Mirrorless takes the role of entry-level crop sensor body.
• Rebel becomes the new mid-level/enthusiast crop sensor body.
• 7D (and 7DII) remains the flagship crop sensor body with pro features and build quality.

If this is the case, I guess I either settle for the T4i (meh) or buy the 60D (3-years old!). The 7DI(I) is just too far beyond my tight budget.

All I really would like is a 60D with an improved sensor that will be relevant for another three years, particularly high-ISO noise performance. Faster, more advanced auto-focus would be a plus, especially if it could be fast in live view.

Okay...

I know the subject of the articulating screen has been beaten to death in this thread. Allow me to beat on it a little more, postmortem. For me, it's a must-have (the second reason, behind budget, that I'm not saving up for the 7D). Here's why:

I understand the reason a pro would be concerned about durability and weather sealing. That's probably why it's not in the 7D, 5DIII or 1DX. For someone who mostly takes pictures of kids and pets, however, it's indispensable. Getting down to their level is often the difference between a nice snapshot and a good photograph.

For those who think the shot must not be important if you're not willing to get dirty to take it, okay -- maybe in a literal sense, but it's often impractical. For someone like me, why would I want to get dirty (or wet, or snowy) all the time if I can just tilt the screen and hold the camera low? If I'm at a family wedding, I'd rather do that than lay down on the floor/ground/wet-beach-sand in my tux/suit to get a good photo.

When it comes to kids, they move around far too much for it to be practical to be constantly getting up and down to get a shot as they play or ride by on their bikes. This is where an articulating screen shines. I've enjoyed it on my A80, G12 and would like it on my next DSLR.

If WiFi is the solution, I'm having a hard time understanding how holding a smartphone or external screen in one hand and a camera in the other is anything but awkward and clumsy. I can just see it now:

A priceless moment is unexpectedly unfolding, and I want to get a low-angle shot. Quick! Get my smartphone, unlock it, choose the right app, turn on the camera, make sure it connects to the phone, choose the right camera settings, aim the phone toward my face with one hand and the camera toward my subject in the other, compose and take the picture....if have my phone close by...and charged...and no one calls during the shot...and I don't need my other hand to zoom...the moment hasn't passed...forever.

OR

Turn on the camera, choose my settings, flip/swivel the screen, compose and shoot.

Maybe I'm missing something...

Anyway, bummer. I was really hoping for a 70D. I guess I should have seen it coming: 50D loses some class and becomes 60D; T3i gains some whistles and bells to become the T4i, closer to 60D (and closer in price); 60D disappears and is replaced by T5i?

So what fills the price gap between the T4i and 7D? Does the xxxD series continue to get boosts in quality/features/price so that it shifts into that middle tier, and mirrorless covers the price slots below?

As a loyal Canon fan, I'm starting to feel like I'm dangling. Maybe if there were enough people like me to make enough of a market...

Alas, it's starting to look unlikely.

[sagittariansrock]

@jondave:

Bottom line is I am not at all itching for a 7DII. The only complaint I have with the 7D is the graininess above ISO 1600. You'd notice for all the rest, I say "same or better"- meaning the current version is fine with me as long as they don't backpedal (Recall the body style change from 50D to 60D).
You might be right about the dual CF cards being a Pro-body thing. I'd still buy the 7DII if it has just one card- given the ISO capabilities are better. The "brand new sensor technology" sort of promises that.

[mucher]

What Canon really need to do is put out a 4x3 APS-C 7D with 24mp, utilizing 1DX grade accuracy focus system and 1DX grade image quality. The current 7D's 3 x 2 image ratio is a really pain in the axx to use sometimes.

[hmmm]

No 70D?   Who knows?  don't lose heart yet -- it's just a CR1.   

[that1guyy]

I've been waiting to upgrade from my T1i, and was hoping to wait for a 60D successor. I found the T1i simply too small, especially after acquiring my telephoto lens.

This should be interesting, because if they merge the two in the upwards direction there will be a sizeable gap between the T4i-series models.

Hopefully the new sensor beings some improvements.

Hah. Exactly like me. I am seriously wanting to upgrade my T1i and a 70D would definitely hit the spot. 6fps,
better iso performance, better dynamic range, and better video features (1080p 60p, higher bit rate, All-I, etc??) would go a long way.

Also, to the guy saying a tilt screen was a fad. Well, for video users that is a must. I would not buy a DSLR without it. Please be aware of uses other than your own before posting next time.

I shoot a lot of video - typically 2 x dslr multicam with zoom h4n + lavalier mics etc. and you have either a micro-USB slot (for laptop tethering) or a mini-hdmi out to ext AV screen -> clearly you don't know what those flaps on the side of your camera are for.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating -> last canon DSLR to have a tilt screen was the 650D, the 5D3/1DX/6D did not get them, nor will a 7D2 as swivel screen are for hobbyists with Rebel bodies, and are less useful than an external wireless monitor (thanks to the intro of WiFi).

Canon have both segments covered - serious videographer will have HDMI-out, the amateur will have their smartphone, iPad or MP4 player which is way more flexible than an articulated screen.

Tech has moved on (WiFi is the new anywhere screen), so should you. Time will tell, and I'm betting that I'll be proved right and you will be proved wrong....and I will remind you that day that the 7D2 is eventually announced

You seemed to have taken my comment a bit personally. Take a deep breath and calm the hell down. It's a camera.

Secondly, obviously if I was shooting something I was getting paid for, I would use an external monitor something like the Zacuto Z-finder pro for better color reproduction and accurate focusing; I know what hdmi inputs are. Don't insult my intelligence.

But not everything people shoot is a paid project. I like going out and shooting random experimental videos for fun. A tilt screen would be awesome. I like recording myself. A tilt screen again would work. You understand camcorders have those as well? It's not a gimmick. It's a feature. Yes, built in wifi would be awesome. I could even use a smartphone as a monitor. Who knows, maybe that will happen.


All the Sony DSLRs and recently the GH3 has a tilt screen. Those cameras, while being excellent for stills, realize the video market exists and is growing and cater to them as well. Canon has made no changes to their video features in the past three years. I'd say that is Canon being ignorant as usual. If Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, I'll be the one laughing. If they don't, Canon is continues to be ignorant.

[AG]

Canon have both segments covered - serious videographer will have HDMI-out, the amateur will have their smartphone, iPad or MP4 player which is way more flexible than an articulated screen.

Actually the Professional will have HD-SDI 3G, the Semi Pro will have HDMI and the Amateur will use the standard screen on camera.

Hate to burst your bubble but a DSLR is not a "Pro Grade" video camera.
If it was it would have inputs and outputs like those on a C300 for example.

Thats why we pay big money for Professional Cameras.

[Famateur]

No 70D?   Who knows?  don't lose heart yet -- it's just a CR1.   

Thanks -- I needed to hear that!!

[jondave]

What Canon really need to do is put out a 4x3 APS-C 7D with 24mp, utilizing 1DX grade accuracy focus system and 1DX grade image quality. The current 7D's 3 x 2 image ratio is a really pain in the axx to use sometimes.

And how much do you intend paying for that? ~$2k? Good luck.

[jondave]

All the Sony DSLRs and recently the GH3 has a tilt screen. Those cameras, while being excellent for stills, realize the video market exists and is growing and cater to them as well. Canon has made no changes to their video features in the past three years. I'd say that is Canon being ignorant as usual. If Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, I'll be the one laughing. If they don't, Canon is continues to be ignorant.

And so what if Sony has it? It doesn't mean Canon should have it. Not now at least, 'cause I haven't heard any Canon users migrating to Sony because of this feature. Canon being ignorant? Of course not. Do you really think you know something Canon doesn't? They won't give it to you because you wouldn't switch anyway. And when the time comes that Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, they'll be the one laughing - not you - because you'll be buying that camera.

It's just silly how a lot of people here just look at the small picture and say something in the likes of "I want a 7D2 with 1Dx + C300 features for ~$2k". C'mon, Canon is selling a million different cameras and each one needs to have its own feature set and not cannibalize sales from each other.

You want a body with all the bells and whistles? There's one out there, but you probably can't afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be complaining here. Or you would've switched already.

Fact is, most people complaining here about Canon wouldn't switch anyway, because there's no better alternative. And Canon knows that. They won't give you all the features you want, but just the ones enough to make you spend more money upgrading and stop you from switching.

Canon ignorant? It's the opposite actually. It's why they keep making money.

[AG]

You want a body with all the bells and whistles? There's one out there, but you probably can't afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be complaining here. Or you would've switched already.

Well said.

[Don Haines]

Just a couple of comments to make here....

To those who think that the natural progression is from APS-C to full frame, not everyone wishes to go full frame. Some of us like the extra reach of APS-C. Talk to birders, astronomers, and wildlife photographers about that... Please don't assume that full frame is the way for everyone to go, because for some it is not.

To those lamenting the inclusion of video on cameras.... For some of us it is a great feature. Take your 60D, mount it to your telescope, (try getting a T-mount for a camcorder), put it into the 640x400 60FPS cropped mode, and you have a 60 frame per second video of a select block of 640x400 pixels (not the entire sensor downsampled but just a portion of the sensor). Let the telescope mount track for a few minutes, and you have several thousand frames of your target that you can run through an image stacker and come up with a picture that is WAY!!! better than any individual frame. This is how we get those nice pictures of Saturn and Jupiter.  You can even use the video functions to shoot video of Fluffy the cat

To those lamenting tilt-swivel screens. I do not like lying in the wet grass or snow when my camera is hanging off the bottom of my telescope. I don't like lying in the swamp when I am trying to get low angle pictures of some amphibian... get the picture? I did because the tilt swivel screen let me stay where I could be comfortable enough to wait for the shot.

To those saying that there is no need for tilt-swivel screens because an external monitor or an iphone-like device will replace them..... Come along on a canoe trip with me. You carry the monitor and batteries for a few weeks and see what you think of them then. You carry them up the side of a mountain on a 6 day hike and tell me how convenient they are. You try balancing yourself, a camera, and a monitor while in a canoe going down a rapid... They may be great in a studio but most of life happens outside.......

Personally, I welcome the addition of tilt-swivel and wireless... it allows me to expand my creativity.... but they are just tools. Sometimes they are usefull and sometimes not. The mix depends on who you are and what you are doing.... just because you don't like something does not mean that everyone else shouldn't.

All this is speculation over a rumour. It is meaningless. We know that sensors are getting better and the ISO range is expanding. We know that changes are being made to focus systems. We know that processors are getting better. We know that new technologies are emerging. All that can be safely said is that the trend will be towards better cameras and higher cost and that at some time new cameras will be introduced.

[Sitting Elf]

+1 on Don's post.

I fully intend on keeping my 7D handy. I have three FF's now, but there are definitely times when I want to reach out further. I also use my 7D for those instances where I might need a quick pop-up flash, without having to go through the setup of an E-TTL Flash.

My only wish is that my 7D (as well as the others) had onboard GPS, and WI-FI. I have workarounds, but it would just be simpler if Canon included them in-camera.

I will ALWAYS have an APS-C camera somewhere in my kit.