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Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]  (Read 41222 times)

sanj

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2012, 01:16:29 PM »

Every year Canon launches a new Rebel body, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a 70D + a 700D at the same time or even in the same year? Maybe they could, but I sincerely doubt it. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! Even the marketers are not that dumb :P

edit: it would be like Coca-Cola changing Coke Zero, and then launching Coke Hero (a new product) around the same time

You seem to disagree with yourself.

If Canon launches new Rebel every year
AND
sometimes (but not every year) Canon launches  a higher level body
THEN
in the year when the higher body is launched there is also launched a new Rebel
SO
it's in contradiction to your doubt
THAT
they shouldn't be launched in the same year

SO
not Rebel every year
OR
no higher level body at all
OR
there must be some years (higher body launches), when they are launched in the same year

Prooved :D

As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:

(1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)

(2) Canon DO NOT typically launch a 40D, 50D, 60D......70D (xxD model) each & every year - so once cannot say for sure that one is definitely expected in 2013

(3) It just so happens that 2013 is a year that a replacement for the 60D would normally occur, but to call it a 70D and simultaneously launch a 700D would be too confusing (coincidence that model numbers may conflict)


What I said, in clear concise English was it would be a marketing disaster to attempt to launch 2 new products the same year with nearly identical (except for one zero) model numbers.

...btw P-R-O-V-E-D is how you spell 'proved'...and you actually proved nothing other than trying to be clever...and you did not do a good job at that.

This is a forum for Canon aficionados who are seriously interested in what new products are coming down the line and what the model designation that Canon deem fit to call them e.g. the new 6D is a good example. The 7D is also a model that is due for an upgrade (7D will be 4 years old in 2013) and there are rumours that the 7D2 and a 70D might be merged to create a new King of the Crop Sensors -> this further validates my argument that Canon may be cautious about releasing a new product called the '70D' for the reasons mentioned above. What really matters is what additional features this new flagship crop body will have.

Well said!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: October 14, 2012, 01:16:29 PM »

DB

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: October 14, 2012, 06:18:11 PM »
@ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics ::) I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels.

Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.

Richard8971

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: November 04, 2012, 09:16:30 PM »
The 7D is one of Canon's best selling cameras and for good reason. I love my 7D and (for now) I cannot imagine another camera filling my needs (for the price).

It is fast and responsive. The images are super, even at higher ISO's. I don't try and compare it to full frame as they have a huge advantage over crop sensors for image quality and color processing. However for "brute" speed and great image quality, you cannot beat the 7D. I took these images yesterday at ISO 640/800 respectively. 'Target on' AF and "right now" shutter response! Yes the 5D3 is a great camera but at 2 grand more over the 7D? You can keep it.

BIF (birds in flight) can test the limits of ANY camera. The 7D? It passes with "flying" colors, no pun intended! :)

I love the 7D and I can only imagine that Canon is planning one hell of a replacement body for it!

D

P.S. CR limts me to 700 pixels wide (max) for uploads. :( Don't let the image size limitations sway you, the full size photos are aweome!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2012, 11:11:44 PM by Richard8971 »
Canon 5D2, 7Dv2.03, 50D, 40D, T1i, XTi...XT (& lenses, flahses), various powershots... You get the idea... I have a problem. :)

Wife shoots Nikon, D7000, D7100, (lenses and flashes)... we constantly tease each other that our cameras are better than each others!

Jamie Douglas

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: November 04, 2012, 11:04:39 PM »
Canon 7D has enjoyed one of the longest shelve lifes in the DLSR age and I am sooo glad I waitied out the 50D and bought my 7D in January 2009.

The AF is super quick and if you handle the exposure well then high ISOs are a breeze.

Check out what the AF can manage...

Mid air Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/h12715cc9#h12715cc9

Incoming Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/ha3897d3#ha3897d3

Black Bear Cub ISO1250 - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/hac981db#hac981db

I recently upgraded to a Canon 1D Mark IV but kept a firm hold of my 7D which is the perfect backup body.

pakosouthpark

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: November 08, 2012, 05:38:21 AM »
canon should have an option so you could choose some specs for your camera! like a swivel screen, video capabilities, wifi, GPS.. like a computer you can upgrade some features or leave it as it is..

Bosman

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: November 08, 2012, 09:12:26 AM »
DB lol an optimist skeptic. Canon has been solving the puzzle pretty good for a while now. The 7D just happens to be the first legit poor mans sports camera. They made a poor mans 1dsm3 in the 5D. Now the 5DM3 is kinda the poor mans 1dx but it doesn't legitimately fill the sports action category so It really is up to another camera to do that right. On the other hand the 1dx isn't really the 5dm3 big brother in my opinion. We still need a studio version 1d something of the 5dm3 and a small version of the 1dx unless Canon is changing its lineup process. These are thoughts on the matter, i claim no superior knowledge. In fact I a dumb sometimes lol.

Pakosouthpark swivel screens aren't upgrades for the heavy shooters they compromise weather proofing and increase repair needs as more things can break. I personally don't care about wifi or GPS but believe it should be in all cameras however the 6d has it because the body is plastic. Magnesium alloy has been the body chassis for the better canon bodies for quite some time now and i can vouch for its durability on my 1d series camera hitting concrete and not missing a beat. I do believe we have had specialized plastics for some time that rival and surpass metal, it only a matter of time before we see some manufacturer switching out their foundries for plastics and making them fully plastic. Lenses are being made now that are plastic like the 100 F2.8 macro for example. You could drop it and you wouldn't have a permanent dent rendering a locked focus, it potentially could be able to take a drop with a bounce instead. Maybe the 6D is the beginning of a new frontier of body making processes because it is bordering on pro more than any xxd or xxxd camera yet. Maybe carbon fiber is an option for internals to make the 1d series much lighter. I believe a camera body design revolution needs to happen in the near future but it may take a company like Sony to push that envelope of innovation to get Canon off its comfortable A**. Lightness of a pro product has yet to be dealt with. Each 1D they have claimed how they are lighter than the previous but that was more thanks to their battery technology and size. They have yet to really solve that. It will have to really be sold as more durable to the 1 series owners for it to launch out into the wild.
Ok, i got on a tanget a bit there. :D
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ZoeEnPhos

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: November 08, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »
Gotta keep the two processors.  It's the secret to the focusing performance...
Really?  How do the dual Digic 4 processors in the 7D contribute to focusing performance?  Or is the secret that Canon is lying when they state, "The EOS 7D has a 19-point autofocus system, all of which are cross-type points, that includes a separate AF processor to help to provide fast, reliable and accurate autofocus for photographers in all shooting situations."

Hello again Neuroanatomist!

Big THANK for your excellent specs/facts about the 7D!
Appreciated much!
Wishing you a very good day sir!
/C
Truly the light is sweet, and a pleasant thing it is for the eyes to behold the sun!

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: November 08, 2012, 09:29:37 AM »

RLPhoto

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: November 08, 2012, 10:56:38 AM »
-10fps

-20MP

-Useable ISO 100-6400- Push 12,800

-Magnesium Body

-1,799$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: November 08, 2012, 01:11:12 PM »
@ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics ::) I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels.

Canon sensors have yet to push past the 50% Q.E. barrier, on any sensor. Sony sensors, and a few Nikon sensors, have pushed past the 50% Q.E. barrier, and Exmor is pushing 60%. Improvements to Q.E. can improve photon noise, even with a smaller pixel.

Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.

Same thing here...your talking about Q.E., or quantum efficiency. There is a certain amount of light lost at each pixel, due to a variety of things. Some light is lost when it reflects off of the filter stack just above the sensor. I wouldn't say the IR cut/low pass filter stack is a significant source of light loss, but is a key factor. The color filter at each pixel absorbs a fairly significant amount of light...you lose at least 15-20% here, if not more...depends on how strong the filter is. Photons that strike parts of the sensor die that are not the photodiode may reflect out of the pixel well, or convert to heat. Not every photon actually converts to an electron. By minimizing these losses, you improve the quantum efficiency of your sensor.

Assuming you had a FF camera with 30% Q.E., and an APS-C camera with half the pixel area and 60% Q.E., there is no reason the APS-C camera couldn't perform just as well as the FF camera from a noise standpoint. Technically speaking, you could capture the same number of photons per pixel despite the fact that one pixel is 1.4x smaller. Canon sensors have around 45% Q.E. today, so unless they can improve Q.E. to around 90% for the next 7D, it wouldn't necessarily perform as well as a 1D X...but neither would it perform 2x as bad. An APS-C sensor with 60-65% Q.E. could perform VERY well on the noise front. As for DR, that is a whole other beast, as it is limited on the shadow end by electronic noise in the sensor (i.e. noise caused by dark current and differences in response from pixel to pixel, etc.) Canon would need to implement some fairly radical fabrication improvements (which I believe they are indeed capable of), and possibly a shift to some kind of CP-ADC with digital noise reduction (vs. analog noise reduction).

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: November 08, 2012, 05:40:37 PM »
-10fps

-20MP

-Useable ISO 100-6400- Push 12,800

-Magnesium Body

-1,799$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

if its ISO Level was similar to the 5Dmk2 from ISO 100 to 6400 without the horrid low iso noise and had improved quality of the noise as in the 5Dmk3 so it could handle noise reduction better
then that would be a pretty sweet camera

or even better still 22MP APS-H ;) (relax guys i'm just teasing even though i do want them to make this)
APS-H Fanboy

ScottyP

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: November 08, 2012, 07:16:23 PM »
I just don't think Canon has the capability of making a better low-noise-at-high-ISO crop sensor right now. 

After all, the original 7D shared a sensor with T2i, T3i and 60D.  And they just released the T4i with a brand new sensor which does not have any better noise handling (maybe slightly worse?). 

Hope I'm wrong though.  Better IQ at high ISO would win me over.
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moreorless

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2012, 12:59:59 AM »
I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.

This is a puzzling thought. It suggests a consumer who wants to try a DSLR first buys into a Rebel under $1K, and then when he wants to be better, he has two choices:

1. Get a 7D2 at over $2K. There is nothing (xxD) in between, and the 7D2 may be all wrong for him given its intended purposes.

2. Go FF with a 6D at over $2K.

I suppose a third option is a 7D2 AND a FF camera.

Seems to me that leaves a HUGE soft spot between $1K and $2K.

Surely something else is going on.

There is a gap but I wonder whether the tradisional xxD is still best suited to filling it.

I look at Nikon's recent pricing with the D3200 and D5200 both effectively shifting up a class and I wonder whether the latter isnt better suited to this market, that is a body the size of the xxxD but with a more advanced AF system.

As DSLR's look to expand beyond tradisional users(its cliched but how often do you see non pro women with something larger than an xxxD?) and come into competision with mirrorless cameras I think size will become more of an issue and build quality less of one.

Scott_7D

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2012, 02:19:27 AM »

Not to be a stickler, but the 7D was announced in Setptember 2009 and available in October...


Canon 7D has enjoyed one of the longest shelve lifes in the DLSR age and I am sooo glad I waitied out the 50D and bought my 7D in January 2009.

The AF is super quick and if you handle the exposure well then high ISOs are a breeze.

Check out what the AF can manage...

Mid air Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/h12715cc9#h12715cc9

Incoming Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/ha3897d3#ha3897d3

Black Bear Cub ISO1250 - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/hac981db#hac981db

I recently upgraded to a Canon 1D Mark IV but kept a firm hold of my 7D which is the perfect backup body.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2012, 02:19:27 AM »

x-vision

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2012, 03:35:40 AM »
I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.

This is a puzzling thought. It suggests a consumer who wants to try a DSLR first buys into a Rebel under $1K, and then when he wants to be better, he has two choices:

1. Get a 7D2 at over $2K. There is nothing (xxD) in between, and the 7D2 may be all wrong for him given its intended purposes.

2. Go FF with a 6D at over $2K.

Seems to me that leaves a HUGE soft spot between $1K and $2K.

The gap between $1K and $2K is shaping up as a dead zone for the time being.
Nikon has it too, btw.

The reason seems to be that consumers do not want to spend more than ~$1K on a camera.
And pros and enthusiasts seem to demand higher specs & performance, which manufacturers cannot meet cost-effectively with sub-$2K models.

At the end, cameras in the $1K-$2K range end up being unattractive to all groups of buyers - expensive for consumers and yet not good enough for pros and many enthusiasts.

Looking forward, it seems likely to me that Canon will raise the price of the 7DII to around $2K, while keeping the 70D price at around $1K.
For these prices to work, though, Canon needs to put a high-performance (crop) sensor in the 7DII.

Otherwise, the 7DII image quality will be perceived as substandard and the 7DII will fall into the dead zone, where the it’s unattractive to most buyers.

Sameer Thawani

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 12:35:52 PM »
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<strong>A new EOS 7D Mark II mention<br />


</strong>A new EOS 7D Mark II is rumored to be announced some time in January, 2013. The camera would take the place of the  7D and 60D.</p>
<p>Specs are minimal, as should be expected. However, it should have a 20+ megapixel sensor and the ability to shoot 10fps. The frame rate is a “targeted spec” for the camera.</p>
<p>I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_7dmk2.html\" target=\"_blank\">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>


Potentially yes. But also we must bear in mind that the D600 is at the same price point as the D700 (never mind that the specs are a combination of inferior/superior to the D700) and the 6D sits at the original price point of the 5DMKII. When both of these were around, we still had the D300s & 7D. But I agree with you, I think they are pushing the full frame lines first - probably because the full frame lenses were are compelled to buy bring in a higher sales number.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2012, 12:35:52 PM »