1D Mark IV [CR2.5]

We know how many pixels a Digic4 sensor can move per second. Roughly 82.29M ([email protected]/s on the 5d2)
Assuming they get 200% from a dual chip, that’s 162.58M/S or only enough to make 7.8! Assuming the 5d2 wasn’t deliberately crippled for some reason (I don’t know why they would clip the frame rate so low if it were) Also the 50d has about the same math.

The numbers bear out with the Digic3 vs Dual Digic3 cameras. The 40d did [email protected] or 61.8 – the 1ds3 does ~5 @ 21.1 or 105.5 (171%) the 1d3 does [email protected] for 101 (163%) These cameras may not have been 100% maxed out for image processing but they certainly can’t go over that theoretical limit. No matter the sensor they develop, it’s limited to the pixels they can process.

All that said, this spec sheet seems to be the START of a damn fine camera. It sure would be nice to have a camera that could do EF and EF-s depending on the situations.

21.1MP 14mm super wide or 13MP 16mm w/ 10-22
21.1MP 300mm or 16MP 390mm or 13MP 460mm
It’s like a free 3 spot zoom on a prime!

I like the concept of the d700 but if canon could pull it off with a beefy sensor it would be a great camera.

I’m not sure about some of these things too: As Michael has already mentioned, 21MP ten times per second is an awfully lot of data to move around which means a high performance demand for both the DSPs (IOW DIGIC chips) and the memory cards.

Which brings me to my second issue: four slots in total seems way off to me: Just take a look any 1D body: Where would one be able to put *four* card slots!?

I am not sure about 4 cards, but it’s about like 3 CF Slots – maybe smaller. I have a post waiting in moderation with a lot of math talking about the flaw of 10fps for 20+mp

If they want to be ready for the Olympics in Feb June 1 is about the deadline. 3 months to market… 5 months of testing is a very short time when you are talking something like the Olympics. If that’s their goal, I wouldn’t be surprised if they announce something around May 1 – the 1ds3 was released in Dec 07 with the Beijing games 8+ months away.

I remember hearing rumours of DIGIC5 being prepared to give even higher throughput, so that might be what allows that data transfer speed. I also don’t think a 3.5″ LCD and 4 card slots would even physically fit on the body.

Winston

The source has been decent in the past, hence the rating. When I reported the 21mp 5D2 spec, people said “no way!” because it would impede on the 1ds3… we saw how that went.

The 4 Slots seems a bit overkill to me, although.. fitting 2 SD cards on top of each other wouldn’t require a lot of space. The 3.5″ LCD… I don’t think so. Could there be a DIGIC V that quickly? Absolutely, I’ll keep pressing about it.

We may finally be getting an actual pro camera?!
Productivity features are essential, which means integrated GPS and wifi. We are assuming here that the 1D4 MUST also have voice memo.
2 card slots are enough for me, especially with integrated WiFi.
With GPS WiFi and voice memo, and assuming AF that acutally works, this is a camera I would buy in a heartbeat, whether it is 17 or 20MP or 8 or 10FPS.

WOW. This would be my dream cam, especially if they had an extra year to enhance the video mode. I will definitely sell off the 5DmkII next year if this thing comes out. Until then, here’s wishful thinking!

With Canon said to already putting a teaser about a new professional Camera in their magazine advertisements, it could be much sooner.

this could mean that they are going to consolidate the 1D line to one, do it all, kick@ss camera (probably priced where the 1Ds is now) and then introduce a cheaper and slightly less juiced up 3D… just a thought

21MP and 10 frames per sec…

This is not about pushing megabytes through the Digic processor, this is about how to have a full frame mirror cope with that speed. If the data is correct, Canon must design a new mirrorbox or go for the fixed mirror.

1d MK4
21.1 mp FF 16bit A/D
3 crop modes
16.2 mp APS-H 14 FPS
13.1 mp APS-C 19 FPS EF-S lenses enabled
In CMOS Image Stabilization For APS-C 5 stop and APS-H 3 stop
Bigger buffer and Dual Digic 4’s
4″ Clear View VGA Touch Screen LCD with less buttons at rear
Wi-FI with TTL-3 system Mulit Flash Strobes through Wi-Fi
ISO 100-12,800 expanded to 50, 25,600, 51,200
Noise compared 1D MK3 ISO@3200 to 1D 3 MK4 ISO@12800 same levels
AF 51 points Matrix tracking
EOS ICS
Live View like Sony a350
HD 1080P Video with AF AI Servo plus
New Mirror Box Design that enables 400,000 shutter cycle and less lag on image display
In Camera Image Editor CPP
And more features too long to list

Re the Digic chip – they might be able to push the clock speed up on it from what’s in the 50D/5D and thus bump processing rates.

My theory is that the chip was designed for X Mhz, but the initial fab yields were only good for Y Mhz (where X > Y), so now the manufacturing process is down pat for the 50D and 5D Mk II and yields come up – they can push clock speed. Possibly some minor circuitry revisions.

That’s a fairly typical process in the mainline CPU Industry.

Also, just a few (requested) features are unrealistic in a top-of-the-line Pro series.

– Touch Screen.
Sorry, but this will appear in a X00D or X000D model first, if it appears at all. Changing the entire UX on a camera intended for *work* not *play* is a quick recipie for disaster if it’s not very well managed. Plus often you’ll be working entirely by feel (That hasn’t yet been solved for touchscreens) and what you can see in the viewfinder. Shining a huge light around (essentially what rear screen LCDs are) is often unacceptable.

– Video recording, of any kind
I doubt they’ll spend the engineering cycles on it. There’s many other areas they could invest their time to fix/adjust things that Pro photographers have been asking for. Yes, the sensor and processors might be more than capable of 1080p, but it all comes down to engineering and developer time, even if they used the same firmware (doubt it) as the 5D Mk II.

All sounds good except for … (wish list follows)
– fewer pixels/less noise please
– cropped mode that can utilise -S lenses automatically
– 16 bits instead of 14. The jump from 12 to 14 bit data words was a noticeable improvement in quality, more so than just increasng the MP count further can yield
– built-in wi-fi to ease downloading
– please, please distinguish the 1D Mk3 programmable focus button that’s just round the curve on the back. I keep hitting the one next door instead in the heat of battle because I’m not instinctively sure which one I’m touching.

Don’t need video; don’t need face detect.

wow, some of these predictions are really cracktastic… 4″ touchscreen? boy, try explaining to a pro that they need to pull themselves away from the VF in the middle of the action to change a setting…that’ll go over well…. somethings I think we can count on are AF updates, more pixels (duh), higher ISO (just look at the 5D MKII shots : http://www.prophotonut.com/2008/09/20/canon-5d-mk2-high-iso-pictures/).

Other than this Im not sure that anything major is going to be added (well, the new high res anti-glare screen obviously and maybe video since thats easy and a potential PJ asset). I don’t know about being compatible with EF-S lenses…some of those lenses protrude into the path of the FF mirror… I don’t really see a way around that except rearranging the whole mirror box and thats just not worth it to use a few extra lenses (that aren’t THAT good anyway)… if they can get the frame rate up in FF then you can just crop later …besides that way you can crop from anywhere in the FF… just in case your shot didnt land perfectly in the 1.6 or 1.3 center… rather than wasting R&D rearranging the mirror box for a few EF-S lenses, get us some new FF glass that really shines!

First – sounds like a great piece of kit.
Second – must need to four cards so you can spray giant files at cards #1 (CF and/or SD) and then cards #2 (CF and/or SD). Fascinating idea for when you have huge files you need to write quickly – like an onboard mirrored RAID array of storage. They said there were ‘ergonomic’ changes – which would be required for the physical housing of the four card slots.
Maybe the dual CPUs will just be Digic 4+ maybe higher clock rate and faster bus speed… required to move that much data that fast.

EF-S lenses + Mirrorless shutter? Been talked about for months and months

I like the idea of a crop mode but as far as I understand, EF-S lenses reach too far into the camera and will be hit by a FF mirror unless you shave off the rear nose.

not going to happen.

PLEASE! Touchscreen User Interface would be horrible for most real working pros. If you are looking at the screen, you’re not shooting or not even ready to shoot. Well placed and thought out dedicated mechanical controls are essential. Optional touchscreen might be ok. But I would much rather have a dedicated mirror lockup button.
Please, Canon, we need better working tools and fewer flashy specs. Save the gadget wars for some other market.

How about something useful like voice recognition to IPTC metadata: caption & keywords. Integrated GPS would take care of location, and also keep the clock properly set – even as time zones are changed.

I highly doubt it will be the 21 mp sensor, this camera was built for speed, not only in shutter but ISO… with that kind of pixel density you won’t get AS good of an ISO. I say “as” because the 5D mark II seems to be doing pretty good. But I am guessing they will use 5DMKII tech in a lower sensor like say a FF 12-17 megapixel sensor to up the ante against nikon with a dual digic IV chip. And astounding ISO quality. My major guess would be 17 megapixels that would satisfy KJs earlier statement that two digic IV processors wouldn’t be able to handle 21 megapixels and at 17 megapixels it would equal 160mbs per second just filling the dual digic IV quota. Of course this sensor would be better than the 17 megapixel sensor of the 1Ds mark II.

As Sebastian I wonder why we need EF-S lenses on the pro bodies?
Is there any point to this I miss, or is it the same people who wants this that whants to remove the buttons an get a tuschscreen?

Just an idea, but could the 4 card slots suggest parallel processing where even numbered images are processed on one processor/card set and odd numbered images are processed on the second processor/card set?

i.e. each processor/card set is handling every second 21mg image at 5fps

OK,

1) Resolution

The resolution of the past two 1D series cameras (mkII and mkIII) is always the same as the resolution of the same generation prosumer (XXD) series camera. Example, 1DmkII = 8.2 MP same as 20D, 1DmkIIN = 8.2 MP same as 30D, 1DmkIII = 10.1 MP same as 40D.

Since the 50D has 15.1MP this is the most likely resolution for the 1DmkIV. This is also a rational choice, Nikon cameras have been typically 2MP ahead of comparable Canons, and until the D3, Nikon noise performance was crappy because of their 1.5x size. 15.1 is one tier advanced of 12 MP, the resolution of the D3, which is the camera that the mkIV will need to solidly outperform to regain Canon’s market dominance. It is higher enough to stay competitive with likely specs for a Nikon D4.

This would also give the camera excellent high ISO noise performance, which, more so than either frame rate or resolution, is the critical factor for PJs.

2) Memory cards

2 CF slots, 1SD slot

I use the SD slot in my mkIII for a backup card (when I runover the CF’s size). It would be ideal to have two ‘main’ card slots so one could shoot over the card limits and exchange the full card during a lag in the action as opposed to changing based on one card’s memory remaining. This also enables 100% usage of available memory, as opposed to changing cards before they are completely full.

The SD is for Canon’s data verification system, which is loaded into an SD.

3) Screen

3 inch screen, anti-reflective, high resolution for improved critical manual focus. NO TOUCH SCREEN! EVER! that would be so prone to accidental use, and touch screen resolutions are way lower than non touch screens. 3 inches is enough, no one I’ve ever met asks for more, and there needs to be room on the camera for control surfaces and a place to actually hold the camera.

4) AF

The mkIII’s AF system failed, and has effectively been rejected by most working professionals. Consequently it needs to be redone. It is likely that after the D3’s 51 point AF and the discovery of the mkIII’s AF instability that R&D was begun on a new one, knowing that this would be the case. Expect a lot of points, definately greater than 51, just because :)

5) liveview

mirror drop AF is actually useful for PJs/ people who like AF to happen quickly (the kind of people who buy 1D cameras)

I was surprised that there isn’t a firmware fix to add it to the mkIIIs, especially since the 40D has it. There will of course be contrast AF with face detect, that will be so the 50D doesn’t have some area that it outspecs the mkIV.

6) framerate

The limiting factor is not the shutter, 10fps for 35mm shutters have been around since the modified nikon F2 in the 1970s

It is not (to a great extent) the mirror. As previously stated the 1V HS could crank 10FPS, the D3 can do 11 in DX mode, in this mode the entire mirror and shutter still operate.

It IS the rate of getting the data off of the sensor, once in the buffer it can wait for the processor, and then be written to card. I like the idea of paralleled 4 digic IVs, digic V is not ready yet, as an actually noticeable improvement.

It is also the AF, the mk III is the only SLR in the world to AF at 10 fps, the D3 cuts out at 9, as did the EOS-1V HS, this might be overcome by a variable mode pellicle mirror, but that is not known.

7) Other

EF-S lenses will not and cannot be added (back focus distance), they are unremarkable when compared to the L lenses anyway.

GPS/WiFi unlikely, though the ability to geotag from GPS without using a WFT is.

If Winter Olympics is in February 2010, Canon better release the whatever cam by Apr 08… must give early adopters (read beta2 testers) sufficient time to bitch about it and then give Canon techs sufficient lead time to correct it before the Winter Olympics…. it will be a disaster if the cam gets fooled by backlit winter shooting condition. ;)