1Ds Mark IV
A link has been spread across the web showing a 1Ds Mark IV price, as well as the ability to order the camera.
For the moment I have not published the link, as I’ve been burned before by products being added to store sites and getting free click through advertising.
In this case, I need more than a model name and a megapixel count, I posted terrible 1Ds4 info in the past and I do not want to do it again.
50D Stock
Stock of the 50D has been depleted by a bunch of stores in Canada. Future Shop has none in their warehouse and do not anticipate ever seeing anymore arrive. London Drugs in Canada have also ceased sales of the 50D in Canada I’ve been told.
I spoke with Canon Canada and they have none in stock and gave me the usual “2 weeks” to get more.
60D Camera Images
I’ve been sent a lot of links to 60D shots, all of which are less than well done Photoshop jobs.
“There will be no 60D”
This has been reported, but none of my sources agree with the sentiment.  One has said the xxD line will continue, however the camera could take a slightly different form this time around.
cr
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1st!
We still have 50d stock here in the Philippines! :)
I also think the xxd line will continue as I don’t get the point of starting an aps-c xd line without keeping the xxd.. they could have named the 7d to a 60d if indeed the 7d is the replacement of the 50d..
still, the price gap between the 550d and 7d keeps us speculating.. :)
1st? here’s a cookie
The 7D is too much camera and too expensive for many while the T2i is too little for many, which means that Canon has a market for the 60D. I, for one, fall into that category. The 7D has features I don’t need, want or want to pay for, while the T2i just isn’t quite enough. I am hoping that the 60D arrives sometime in the not too distant future.
Have you heard about the new rebates for Canada.
I’m hearing there is a $500 rebate for 5D Mark II starting in June.
my comment is as useless as your, so you also get a cookie.. haha
I’m in the market for a 5D Mark II in the next couple weeks and live in Canada – I’d love to know if there’s such a rebate coming??
$500 for a $2499 camara? LOL. It’s farrrr beyond my expectation.
Somebody, several months ago, stated that the xxd line would become the bottom of the FF hierarchy instead of being at the top of the APS-C hierarchy. I suppose that would qualify as a “slightly different form”.
Ritz Camera has no 50D s in stock. All other models in sttock
What’s the megapixel count given for the EOS-1Ds Mark IV?
32MP
Odd. That store in NZ is pretty reputable (I used to live in NZ near it). It’s the major pro photo store in the country (and they are official importers of some reputable brands including B+W). So I doubt if it’s a sleazy ploy. At very least I’m inclined to believe the spec. The price might be guesswork on the high side that they are prepared to honour.
Agreed. I don’t think I ever remember a single item rebate higher than $200.00, even on a “big white” lens. That’s too high a rebate even if it’s a tandem purchase with a 24-70 mm f/2.8 or 24-105mm f/4.0.
I still don’t think there will be a 60D, but to be honest would not mind being proven wrong on this one. Just thinking as a crass commercialist, I don’t see the upside for Canon to fragment the market into 4 levels instead of 3.
Just to make conversation, what would you strip off the 7D to put in the the middle price range between T2i and 7D?
Model sales continue well after new models are introduced.
As example, around here you can buy new 450D & 500D long after the 550D was introduced, and 40D sells well after the 50D was introduced.
I find it more likely that there are issues stocking the 50D than that the model out of production in preparation for the 60D.
Has Canon ever discontinued a line and not announced the end of it? Would it be like them to just quit making 50Ds and not issue a press release of some kind?
For instance, why not say the 7D replaces the 60D, so get the 50Ds while you can if you are so inclined? That would move them quicker and make folks move along. Kind of like after a fight when you say, “Move along folks, noth’in here to see”. As long as we are gawking, some of the product doesn’t move.
I think the silence assures us of the 60D…. we just need a few more folks holding out for the 60D to capitulate and buy the 50D so it will be released. ;-)
Square sensor would also qualify as “slightly different from.” Well, maybe more than slightly.
I’ve said before I like the idea of square and won’t rehash here as to why, but it would make more sense to do a 22.3×22.3mm sensor as it would have NO problems with any existing (non EF-S) lenses, even those with rectangular rear bafffles, whereas the theoretical 1DMkIV square sensor could be problematic in this area.
If you were really picky about all your petal shades being optimal, you would need different shades to shoot square, but that would be about it.
Let me answer your question with a question: Has there ever been a case where they DID announce the end of a line?
I don’t recall an announcement that film cameras were being discontinued. They just faded away one by one. . .and then there were none. The only digital SLR line that has been ended in the past (that I can remember) would be the D30/D60 series (if two cameras qualifies as a “series”). I don’t recall an announcement of an end to that series.
I wonder if this is something with Canon Canada. The Walmart USA site has the body only plus 3 different kits with the 50D
While I went for a 7D, I still think there is room for a 60D. Lower FPS (resulting in only one Digic), same sensor, less-than 100% viewfinder coverage, minimal weather sealing (well, as much as the 50D has or doesn’t have), no built-in flash master, no LCD overlay in viewfinder, same AF as 50D. That would be sufficient to lower cost (in particular the viewfinder, fps, and AF) and still appeal to many people who want something more substantial than a Rebel.
Give two to the CR guy!
See, the way you’re looking at Canon market segments is not really correct. There’s more than just 3 segments to it, really. I’m guessing you’re looking at it as something like “Low end, mid range, high end”, which is kind of correct, but not totally. Each of those has different levels to it. The low end would include the Rebels obviously, but the XS and T2i are not really the same level. And then in the “Mid range” level cams, you have the 50D, 7D and 5DII. Those cams are not all at the same level. The 50D is a step above the Rebel, but below the 7D, which is inherently on a different level from the 5DII, because one is APS-C, shoots fast, has better AF and other goodies, etc, and the other is FF, slow, old AF, etc. Yes, they could both be labeled as “mid range”, but they are certainly both designed for different segments of the market. And then you have the “High end” 1 series bodies. Those are both designed for different people, too. The 1D is the fastest camera around, APS-H, great high ISO, less megapixels, while the 1Ds is FF, shoots moderately fast and has less fantastic high ISO performance and a ton of megapixels.
So, if you really think about it, there’s not just 3 or even 4 segments to the market. It’s the same for Nikon, too.
I guess I wouldn’t swap a 7D for what would be a dumbed down 5DII. Hell, I probably would even swap a 7D for a 5DII (despite not being too happy about ISO 3200 on the 7D).
You make good points, but I still think there are pretty much 3 strata: Professional (1D series), Pro-sumer (5D, 7D, 50D), and hobby/semi-serious amateur (Rebels).
Regarding the Rebels, while 4 of them are listed on Canon’s website, I would bet good money that only two or maybe only one of them is actually in current production. Surely the XS and T1i are only listed pending stock depletion?
The 1D series is clearly on a level to itself. We agree on that. You choose your flavor of 1D based on your need for high speed or high megapixels.
The problem I see with the current state of the XXD series is that is it too close to the 7D to justify a $600.00 price drop, and too far from the T2i to be worth only $200.00 more.
If there is a 60D, I expect that:
A) It wil have significant re-design and will not be called 60D. The series from 20D to 50D only had fairly basic incremental changes (more megapixels, larger LCD, live view) and essentially the same body style. After about 6 years, it seems pretty stale and ready for an overhaul and new number scheme.
B) It won’t sell for $1099 list like the 50D does now. I would be shocked if Canon didn’t consider it a marketing blunder on it’s part to keep improving the camera while allowing the price price to slide from about $1900 (my recollection of the intro price of 20D) to $1100 for the current 50D with double the megapixels, slightly faster motor, live view, etc. I see them aiming for AT LEAST $1399.00 for the starting list price for whatever ends up as a “60D.” It’s normal and expected for features to improve and prices to drop, but the divergence in the XXD price/features curves had got to be too wide to suit Canon and their shareholders.
(Yeah, I hate sucking up to shareholders too, but that’s reality.)
I got a $500 rebate when i bought a big white lens about this time last year.
“Just to make conversation, what would you strip off the 7D to put in the the middle price range between T2i and 7D?”
PRICE!
So I take it you are one of the people who thinks Canon can just swap the engraved logo on the 7D for the decal logo like on the 50D and drop the price 600 bucks?
Prepare to be disappointed.
Just wondering if the “60D” could be a candidate for
“in–body” stabilization to compete with the Pentax K7?
I would have to think a TON of professional shooters don’t agree with you classifying the 5d as a prosumer camera …
I would guess (again, just my guess) more pros use the 5d series than the 1d. And then when you strip out the birders …
Here in Switzerland we had a strange trade in offer at a local store: trade your 5D in for a new 5DII at 2000 CHF…While one was able to get a 5D II online at 2500 and KEEP the 5D…If your mentioned rebate becomes real, it might be connected with an additional combo: 5DII and new 70-200 2.8 IS…or something like that…
while there are still some 30D’s for sale at swiss online stores I strongly doubt that the 50D will dissapear so soon…
I think people should look at what can be added to the T2i as opposed to taken away from the 7D to make the 60D. Top LCD, control wheel, 6.5 fps and magnesium body would be enough of an improvement over the T2i for me to make the jump up from my 30D. As great as the T2i is, I hate not having the top LCD and control wheel, not to mention the smaller size and less than 5 fps. If I could afford the 7D I’d be there in a heartbeat. I think I a lot people are in the same boat. They want more than the T2i but can’t afford the 7D. If the 50D is indeed dead (or dying), the price gap alone is reason enough for continuation of the xxD line.
Good idea, potentially cheaper lenses become more useful, however all i’ve heard says in body is less effective than in lens stabilisation. If Canon were looking to buy Pentax then this might be something they would reuse – maybe in a hybrid in Lens AND in Body design.
Why make it a “stripped off” 7D ? The 60D could be targeted at a different audience and have “highly desirable caracteristics” of its own.
Ex : video ergonomics (I don’t care, but many do, and the 5D2 success certainly gives ideas to Canon…)
the 7d and the 60D will be similar in price. 7d is good for sports right? then the 60D will be made to be more for portraiture . FTW
The xxD could not come out at the same time as the 7D 550D – that would be bad product release management; but i hope we are nearing mid cycle for the 7D. Canon seems to anounce after nikon – so i’m also waiting for the D90’s replacement.
I doubt the xxD will be FF or Square as mentioned above.
But Mirrorless is a slightly different form.
Why do i want it – i want a step up body (size/iso/video) from the 400D with a better quality rear lit sensor.
Not having a mirror should increase mechanical reliability, “shutter count” would become meaningless. Saving the cost of the physical shutter would allow spend in other areas. A quiet shutter would be good, movie does not use shutter, FPS is not shutter limited. No loss of image view during shot as electronic view finder keeps showign image.
60D would directly play against Sony’s NEX3/5.
The CIPA sales figures from Japan for April 2010 show that the Nikon D90 is the biggest seller with 16% of units sold, followed closely by the Canon 550D (15.5%). The 7D is in 9th place with 2.9% of units. Nikon have the D3000 and D5000 in third and fifth place, bracketing the Canon 500D, all on about 9%. The 50D is nowhere to be seen.
There really is room for a larger, more ergonomic camera from Canon, a role usually filled by the xxD line. Perhaps a 60D will be more like a D90. It may be slightly reduced in size from the current model and use more plastics, but still be more hefty than a xxxD.
Ohh, I just ordered a 50D last weekend, there was a great discount on all cameras making the 50D €552 (which is far cheaper than the cheapest store in The Netherlands). Let’s just hope it gets on stock one day …
My ideal 60D would be the size of the 550D but with the 50D autofocus system and 50D style controls. Maybe a slightly larger viewfinder than the 550D…
I don’t think Canon can go mirrorless very easily. Without a new lens system you lose the advantages (smaller depth) but still have the disadvantages (no optical viewfinder, no phase detect autofocus)
This is an interesting coment to me..
The bad side:
im afraid that a digital powered viewfinder will suck much batteries off the camera. (it hurts my eyes to) Also it will change the fisical form of the camera to much, im not gonna like that. =(
Also it will screw the sensor, maybe doing it go noiser.. i dont know.
And the most important thing: Sensor will not have any protection for incoming things coming out of the lens mount. (this is critical. you will sweet everytime you change lenses)
The good side:
Lower the fisical cost of the camera, and we can have more features for the same price. (shutter its one of the most expesive part of the camera)
It will also lower the camera weight.
But still interesting at this point.
550D its to small to have a LCD on the top off the body or the control wheel or the second AF button on the upper corner right of the camera. I really enjoy that LCD, the AF Buttom and the wheel.
XXD bodies have a better ergonimic and intituive design than XXXD bodies, especially with big handed guys. (nikon best us for far diference in ergonomic design by the way)
I thing the sizes of 7D/5D/50D its good for the targeted market.
and what about the Canon EVIL? Sony just came out with with the NEX-3 and 5, two not too shaby first tries at such a camera… I hope Canon will step up to the challenge
perhaps this time canon will take it diferent..
canon 20D-30D-40D-50D are almost the same thing, offering almost the same features. Maybe the 60D will came out so diferent that there is no reason to have a big stock of 50D left.
There is always risk about doing this, but canon could be overconfident about this new product, and having the backup of the 550D and 7D also.
DONT YOU SEE HOW DESPERATE WE ARE ABOUT GEEETTTINNGG A NEEEWW XXD MODEL? xDDD
drummstikk its right.. canon wil never such communication. but you are also right, i dont thing canon leaving the boat ad a breach on the market for nikon or sony to xplode.
I want to see the fake 60D images :)
Ritz Camera doesn’t sell Canon, and hasn’t since Aug last year, so by that logic, ALL Canon is out of stock at Ritz
If you did remove the sensor you could have a cover glass over the sensor approximately where the mirror used to be.
Any dust falling on the cover glass would almost always be so out of focus as to be difficult to detect.
The Sony F35 video camera and Panavision Genesis video camera use this system and it works well.
Well, if you’re right, I guess I would be one of the ton of professional shooters who disagree with myself, since my 5D Mark Nothing, (along with my 40D and 7D) gets almost daily use.
Sure, lots of pro’s use 5D’s. But that doesn’t automatically make it a “professional” camera in the conventional definition (bulletproof build quality, top of the line features, etc.). While I’m making a decent living, as a financially responsible photographer, I have to admit to myself that I’m not doing the type or volume of work that would demand the ruggedness, drive speed, etc. of a 1D. I want the principle investor in my business to be ME and not VISA.
As I mentioned it is a $500 rebate in Canada.
I saw this website:
http://www.lensandshutter.com/products.lasso?productid=1619&status=current
and I thought maybe it is some kind of rebate from Canon. It is highly unlikely that a store can offer $500 rebate. ( the regular price for 5d II in Canada is $2900)
check this out:
http://www.lensandshutter.com/products.lasso?productid=1619&status=current
I’m looking for 5D as well. But I rather get it from the states for something close to $2000 or $2200 at most.
Why not just make a full frame16 meg, 8-10 fps camera.
That would be the worst 60d ever!!
Type ’60D’ into google image search.
Smart indeed
Very ready for a d90 shaped camera from canon. Keep the AF of the 7D. Call it 5-6 fps. And less rugged weather seals and I’m a happy camper for $1299.
Something is going on. Because “The Camera Store” has the same deal:
https://www.thecamerastore.com/products/cameras/digital-cameras/digital-slr-cameras/canon-eos-5d-mark-ii-body
Thank you for not posting the link on the 1Ds MK4. I’ve been drooling for that camera and I don’t want to know until you have the facts. I’m patiently waiting…….
I think there is room for a 60D but like others have said not in the current design. i foresee something more in line with the nikon D90 –
Better AF than the Rebels but less than 7D
More Frame Rate than Rebel but less than 7D
Better build than Rebel but less than 7D (the smallest camera with a top LCD and a smaller wheel on the back?)
While we won’t see it I for one would love to see it have less MP than the 7D – maybe stay with the 15 of the 50 but with some of the new sensor tech…
Really – would like to see Canon version fo the D90 class – light but bigger than rebel with easier manual functions – also include the flash control of the 7D which would further separate it from the rebels…
Try checking their website. They are all there except for 50Ds
I cant agree more. There is a plenty of room for the XXD series on the market.
No all the people want to pay extra for a multipoint focus-weather sealed camera if wont use it.
I do some nature photography but never needed a weathersealed camera, (beacuse the photographer has to be also water proof and i dont wanna get wet the most of the time.)
I need a new dSLR, i got the money at hand right now.. just waiting for the 60D to come.
:O thanx 4 the info.
Anyway… the other problems still there =)
Maybe with the new backlight LCD led displays the problem of energy is solve, but digital viewfinder have other problems by now.
Refresh rate of the display. Color reproduction, etc.
There is future in mirrowless cameras… but i dont think the 60D is the time for these tech.
Other than the ergonomics and maybe shooting speed, does it really need to be much different from a xxxD? I traded up to a 40D for the ergonomics, not because I thought it would take better pictures than my 400D. That’s all I’m looking for: a 550D in a different package that isn’t a pain to wield with a heavy “L” zoom bolted on. Anything else that Canon throw in without increasing the price is a bonus.
Sounds good to me… a slightly upgraded 50D in a smaller package.
You don’t have any camera design experience do you? It is not all about image circle size, it is about how deep the mirror has to be to make a 22.3mm high image. There is not the room to put a big enough mirror into an EF-S sized mirrorbox without fouling the back of the EF-S lenses. Same with the FF sensors. You could make a square format at 22.3×22.3 that only takes EF lenses, but you might as well buy a 1Ds and the crop kit and get a 24mm square format.
It’s coming.
i feel like the sizes helps with the grip and balance when using heavy duty lenses like 70-200 2.8 or 24-70 2.8…
if canon starts to make L class/light weight lenses for APS-C it will be good a smaller body.. i guess the future is with in Smaller sensors cameras… but we are a bit distant from that.
I agree … I’d love it if they made a line of APS-C L-quality Primes and Zooms in order to take advantage of lighter weight. If I have to carry full-frame lenses, then I want to make full use of them, so FF body for me until a full line of APS-C optimized lenses is available. Not going to hold my breath on that.
I’m curious about a 60D, it doesn’t hurt to have more options to consider.
Overall I think the market is well served. We could quibble about saving a few bucks over the 7D, but it’s still a very good value at present prices.
I would rather see an APS-H sensor in a 7D body.
There will never be a true, designated and red ringed EF-S L lens. But what’s is wrong with the EF-S 17-55 f2.8 IS?
Sounds good. Where did you order it?
and Camera Canada
and Broadway Camera
and Simon’s Camera
Time to make an upgrade
I believe the DotCom & the B&M stores are not the same anymore after Ritz went into chapter 11 a couple of years ago.
the 60D should be:
new 14.5 mp back-lit, great high ISO for a crop sensor (bigger pixels, to address those who have issue with noise in 7D at ISO 100)
Same AF as 7D
Dual memory card slots, 1 CF, 1 SD (7D should of had this)
Pop-up flash with controller functions (same as 7D)
Video same as 7D
7 FPS (ya I know, 1 less than 7D, to keep FPS going in low light, one of the issues discussed regarding 7D)
Can use 7D optional wireless grip
Tilting back screen
$1300 US
Who needs a slow SD slot?
What I want from a 60D that the xxxD line does not offer are:
1-Slightly bigger: I find the Rebel too hard to hold for long periods
2- Better AF: Canon needs to move the 7D’s new AF system throughout all their cameras to stay competitive: with slight variations between models of course.
3- Micro Focuss Adjust: never buying a camera without this again.
4- More FPS: 3.5ish is just too slow
I can’t justify paying twice the price of a 550D to get these in a 7D.
http://progear.co.nz/product/13192.aspx
Exactly what I am thinking.
or 2012.
For pros.
Stills on CF, video on SD.
Stills on CF, backup on SD.
Stills RAW on CF, JPG’s on SD
SD/SDHC ….ya the same spec in the 1D4.
Even Nikon D300s has this. What ever replaces the Nikon D700 will have dual card slots.
I would trade MP for dual card slots. This is no different than having proper backup of your hard drives.
Your argument makes no sense to me, but then I’m no “Son of Einstein.”
I specifically excluded EF-S lenses from my hypothetical design. If my one EF-S type lens is not compatible with this design, I don’t care. I never expected much in the way of forward compatibility with any format other then APS-C from that lens anyway, and nobody buying EF-S lenses should.
wasnt there a video interview with a canon-director somewhere, after the launch of 7D, where he said that the 7D was not replacing any of the current lines, it is a new line..?
that’s exactly why i want a 60D as well, + increased ISO-performance from my 450D
It’s my brick and mortar store of choice. They list the 1Ds IV for the same price as the 1Ds III. I’d wager Canon NZ told them the Mark IV would be available soon for the same price as the current model. The store is fairly new to web-based sales and I suspect didn’t realize the implications of pricing the yet to be release model on their website.
?????
My local Ritz has a bunch of Canon and you can buy Canon models on their website. What are you referring to?
Forgive my moniker, it is a play on words (actually slights) that I had previously received in threads here, I claim no superior intellectual prowess, but realise now that that is not obvious without explanation.
Ok, on to the geometry of the issue, and again, forgive me if the following is too basic or too complicated, or if I just don’t explain it well enough.
The mirror is angled; to get the width of the image it only needs to be as wide as the sensor, plus a tiny bit, but to get the height it needs to be longer, or the hypotenuse of the height and depth, for a 22.3mm height sensor you would need a mirror that angled at 45º and was 30+mm high, basically very close to the same height as a FF mirror. In consequence you would need a mirror box that was built like a FF one, height, weight, damping etc etc, well almost. You would then end up with a strange mix of compatibility, it would be a consumer camera with a crop sensor, all be it square one, that couldn’t take consumer (EF-S) lenses, it would be a very unpopular/unused format that did not maximise image circle use, as you have previously expounded, from the only lens line that it could use, the bigger and more expensive EF line. It would be expensive to make as well. It, the square 22.3mm format, has no benefits at all and will not be made by Canon.
A similar problem happens if you try to put a square sensor in a camera to maximise a 43mm image circle, or EF lens image circle. You get a 30.4mm square, a mirror to cover that has to be 43mm high, you can’t fit that into an EF camera mirror box if you want a shutter and maintain the 44mm flange distance.
No the square format, despite your hopes and Dean Francis’ shameless attempts to get web hits, will not be happening any time soon
Hope this helps.
It will be here before this years holiday season, Thanksgiving and Christmas.
9D (50D replacement) 12MP FF 11AF points, 5.3fps price @ 1900, Sony A850 competitor.
7D price to be lowered at 1400.
Only im the one who think that this is a pointless post with no usable information?
Seems sensible enough.
Wonder if the SD card slot will be SDXC-compatible…
Yeah. On Canon Europe’s site.
Circuitry isn’t a signficant issue with the large sensors used in DSLRs, it’s essentially bypassed by the microlenses, so I’d be surprised if much R&D was being expended on large backlit sensors.
Why 14.5MP?
Have you ever lost an image due to only having one card slot? I don’t know one pro who has, if one slot is good enough for Hasselblad and Leica then I am sure we can get by with one.
Agreed I recently bought a 50d as I don’t like the pentamirror, AF, FPS, lack of rear dial and general small feel of the 550d but I can’t justify the price jump up to the 7d..
Though really when the 50d was a ‘current’ model the prices were probably similar to the 7d now.. I will just wait until the 8d comes out and buy a 7d, I don’t know if they really need a 60d also..
As Wren has said plus Pro CF card instead of amateur SD card.
Sony calls it a MIL camera — Mirror-less Interchangeable Lens.
There are a lot of people who don’t want or need a FF camera.
What I’m waiting for is the T3i with a 645 medium format sensor 8-D
Or the EF-S 60/f2.8 Macro. I don’t think that Canon makes a sharper lens.
“London Drugs”, for all your camera crack?
The 50D has no video so maybe sales figures are down and its not worth making anymore. So maybe “different” includes a bigger focus on video?
Or maybe for real the 50D is the end of the line and canon don’t want to keep building it.
I’ve lost 8GB of wedding photos on a bad batch of CF cards (other cards I bought from the same batch showed the same failure over the year). Low level formatting did not fix the issue, so it probably was a bunch of bad sectors on the die.
I am glad my camera has an SD backup slot due to this. Different formats fail different ways.
I’ve personally never had an SD protocol card fail on me (yet). I’ve had several failed CF cards.
If I were working with a single-slot card, I’d be out 1/5 of the wedding coverage.
*single-slot camera.
I think you can take 1, 3, and 4 as a given. The 50D already provides all of these for much less than the cost of a 7D. The 50D does have better AF than an xxxD, but not a whole lot better.
While the 7D AF would be nice, it is the primary differentiator between the 7D and any new xxD, where the latter would be something like a 50D with video, so I don’t think we’ll get that. A new 5D3 would probably get the 7D AF, but an xxD would not get anything more than a very limited version of it–if there is any change at all from the 40D/50D AF unit.
The other option is to change the body radically to something more like a Nikon D90 (smaller than a 50D/7D, but larger than an xxxD, and probably plastic instead of metal) and remove the top-panel LCD. If they did both of those, then only a slightly larger size, better buttons and dials, and faster shooting speed would differentiate it from an xxxD, leaving more room to add some gizmos that would still make it something less than a 7D and more than an xxxD with a price to match.
Of course, they could make it just like a 7D and then upgrade the 7D, so who knows.
Sandisk or Lexar?
I’ll grab the first affordable Canon DSLR with a “flip out” screen. With video stuff coming in – this lack of convenience must be closed at some point in time. While I am only little interested in video – I finally want to reliable shoot from positions (over-head or ground-up) which so far I can only make guesses. For time being, my “historic” 350D serves me very well.
Canon – please don’t make me waiting forever ;-)
the D90 has a top lcd and the other controls are the same as the d300 on a smaller body. I mentioned that in my post. I agree that they will not get 7D af but a version of it with 11 points perhaps or maybe even a fast 9 where all are cross type would be an improvement….
Yes Gabe, your post is completely pointless.
The 17-55 2.8 is a great lens, I owned one for 1.5 years. But it’s not as well built as the 24-105 f4, and still does not perform as well as the 24-105 does on FF.
There aren’t many lens options that deliver the promise of size/weight savings of APS-C. FF wins over APS-C in every way except the price of the body.
@karohe – where in the US for $2000-$2200.?Cheapest i’ve seen outside eBay is $2400 at B&H
Probably neither, or fake Sandisk/Lexar.
So you basically want to have a 60D that’s slightly slower shooting, has slightly fewer megapixel, add a bunch of goodies that the 7D doesn’t have, and want it to be priced $400 less than the 7D? Not going to happen, buddy.
8D? As a successor to 7D? How many single digits does Canon have left for use on the xD line? And when is the last time they used even numbers for the xD line?
Thought MIL stands for mother-in-law
That would be the 7Ds?
That would be my guess too. Funny because quality cards are so cheap when compared to a camera with dual card slots, and even cheaper when compared to the average price of a wedding. Spend thousands on L lenses and 1 Series bodies but save $40 on a decent card!
7D is already selling at $1400, street price.
Which begs the question of the longevity of the EF-S/APS-C format. Is it a stand-in until FF is cheap enough to make for everyone?
I’m not sure your thinking this through all the way in the context of the hypothetical 22.3×22.3mm sensor.
Forgive me if *I* am missing something, but this seems to me it would basically be a sensor/mirror box size of an FF sensor with each end effectively masked off to make it a square. So, basically, if the 5D is possible (as it OBVIOUSLY is) then the 22.3×22.3mm sensor is also possible. I think it would even be compatible with EF-S lenses, though the extreme corners of the full square format might become unusable due to inadequate image circle. EF lenses would allow full freedom of cropping through the full square area. (Using the upper 2/3, the right hand 2/3, etc.)
You say, “It, the square 22.3mm format, has no benefits at all and will not be made by Canon.” You may well be right that it will not be made by Canon. It’s an “outside the box” idea that may/probably will have trouble getting traction.
But to say it has “no benefits” is flat-out wrong. See other discussions of square format in this forum for a multitude of reasons why.
You are correct that it would require fancy engineering to make a 32x32mm sensor as was recently postulated for the 1DMarkIV, but “expanded APS-C” would not have the same issues. Remember, even though APS-C is smaller, the sensor to lens flange distance is still the same. You have sufficient space to work with for mirror travel.
Hi Bob
Would you please tell me where did you see those CIPA figures?
I searched the web but I just can find total sales and not the individual camera sales.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Bobby
where is my cookie then ,you dumbass?
1Ds ? Oh canon, very late, late , late, late,… my money 11.000 $ is for RED….
You just restated everything I said! It is possible to make a 22.3mm square sensor camera, I have said that twice. But why would you when you can already buy a 24mm square one?
With regards the use of EF-S lenses on your 22.3mm square format, it can’t happen, well, for some EF-S lenses it can but for some it can’t, the flange distance is the same for all EF/EF-S lenses but the back focus distance is not, most zooms would clear at longer settings but some would not clear at shorter focal lengths. Do you seriously think Canon would come out with another lens use complication? We are not Nikon!
Again, the 32mm square sensor is theoretically possible, but it won’t be made, currently the two solutions to the mirror size issue are a split mirror where 2/3s of the mirror complete with secondary AF mirror rise to the top of the mirror box as per current designs and the bottom 1/3 drops to the mirror box bottom, but the numbers for it all fitting are too tight; the second is a fixed pellicle mirror, but even that needs considerable reworking of the shutter mechanism and the inside of the lens mount.
However, there is no enthusiasm for this square format, despite your (and Dean’s) thinking and previous reasoning, 135 might be a strange aspect ratio legacy format but it has a proven longevity and popularity.
Another way to look at the potential popularity (the real driving force behind the R&D budgets) of your theorised two square formats. The 22.3 holds no benefits over the currently available 24mm square format (other than a smaller sensor), cost for the end product would not be significantly lower for the 22.3 than the current FF/24mm square despite using that smaller sensor and it would utelise even less of the lenses image circle than currently, your rationalisation for the 22.3 format does not hold up. For the 32mm square you have considerable engineering issues (which make R&D and subsequent body prices high) and a very small niche market that already has higher quality options.
EOS cameras and EF lenses were designed and built to the 135 format, if Canon were to enter the larger than 135/medium format market it would be with a new body form and a new lens line.
Kingston, and they were $80 each at the time I bought them, so price wasn’t the issue.
Things fail. I’ve had a 1TB Seagate drive fail on me. Bad firmware batch.
Luckily I RAID5 -and- back up my RAID.
If you don’t believe in redundancy, suit yourself.
I choose to protect myself and my clients.
I’d hope Newegg doesn’t sell fake brand name cards.
Well Chris your most likely right.
I tried to think of what the 60D should be to make me even interested in buying it. So that was my list.
But the 60D will most likely just be ho-hum.
The 550 already has a 18mp sensor, no big deal there.
The 60D might go from 9 AF points to 11, but lots of other makes are already at 11 AF points, no big deal there.
Other makes already full weather seals, like Pentax, no big deal there.
All Nikon’s have flash controller, no big deal there.
Video, that’s a given, no big deal there.
How about spot metering on each AF point, like Nikon, not one Canon body has that, no, Canon would ass that to the 1D series first, so no big deal there.
Tilt screen, others already have that, no big deal there.
Ya, I agree with you Chris, the 60D will be no big deal, just the expected plain old marginal up-grade from Canon.
Actually, reviewing my invoices. My bad batch of cards came from Adorama.
My batch from Newegg are still working fine (knock on wood).
> It is possible to make a 22.3mm square sensor camera, I
> have said that twice. But why would you when you can
> already buy a 24mm square one?
Are you referring to the 5D/1Ds? If so, the slow drive speed of all Canon Full-framers nullifies the advantages of a square format for sports photogaphy. Those are the advantages that interest me most. (Just my narrow point of view.) I’d have long since bolted to the Nikon D3 if it would not mean learning to focus “backwards” again. My switch from Nikon to Canon in the early ’90’s led to about 3-5 months of focusing hell.
The lack of a full-frame SLR with 8 FPS or higher is a GAPING HOLE in the Canon lineup.
> However, there is no enthusiasm for this square format
Ever heard of Hasselblad?
Look, all I tried to do was point out the physical and engineering limitations of the idea that you kept mentioning, it was an interesting idea but with the lens designs as they are it is not practical.
Now you are just arguing, but, if the 24mm square format is too slow for you go with the 10fps 19mm square format available. If you swapped to Nikon how would you pay for the D3 if you are currently fiscally limiting yourself to prosumer cameras?
I agree the lack of high fps full frame camera is hurting Canon, but that is only on the wide end, it is not a gaping hole, frustrating sometimes but what camera system isn’t?
Funny you should mention Hasselblad, I have done work for them too. When did they make a high speed small format square camera? Because that was what I was referring to when I said there is no enthusiasm for this square format. But do you know how few they sell a year? Do you know how much they cost? Do you think a lower volume smaller but faster format would sell for much less?
No, your original point was it should be cheap and easy for Canon to make a square format camera that could use current lenses. I pointed out the technical limitations and difficulties involved in making it happen, the reasoning behind your idea is all moot if the current lenses won’t work. The currently available 19mm and 24mm square formats are too close to bother with a dedicated 22.3mm square crop camera that could only take EF lenses. On the other hand, the larger 30+mm square sensor could be an interesting, and pursued, development were it not for the flange distance/mirror box size issue.
It is just engineering, not a personal feeling, your square formats will not be made for EF or EF-S lenses.
It was thought of like that originally, but not anymore, buy EF-S lenses to suit you, the smaller format will not be dropped for the foreseeable future.
> Now you are just arguing,
Really? If that’s so, I’m not the only one.
> Funny you should mention Hasselblad, I have done work
> for them too. When did they make a high speed small
> format square camera? Because that was what I was
> referring to when I said there is no enthusiasm for
> this square format. But do you know how few they sell
> a year? Do you know how much they cost? Do you think
> a lower volume smaller but faster format would sell
> for much less?
Your obfuscating my point. You made broad statements that there were “no benefits” and “no enthusiasm” for square formats. That just doesn’t hold water. Hasselblad, Mamiya TLR and Bronica SQ were the top choice of many of the best photographers in the business for decades, including sports photographers. I’ve seen them in use by Sports Illustrated photographers at multiple college and professional basketball games. I witnessed Neil Leifer using Hasselblad while shooting stills for the production of the movie “Blue Chips.”
Square gives maximum cropping flexibility in the final image, offers maximum flexibility for mounting remote cameras, eliminates the need for rotating flash brackets, and takes the guesswork out of some aspects of sports photography (will it be a vertical leaping catch or a horizontal diving catch?).
Sure, square formats and medium formats in general have been pushed aside by digital technology in the modern age, but the reasons that made them the best choice for many photographers for many years are still just as valid today.
> No, your original point was it should be cheap and
> easy for Canon to make a square format camera that
> could use current lenses.
Thanks for telling me what my original point was, but I didn’t say anything about “cheap and easy.” I’m not an engineer, but I know what would help me as a photographer. Canon certainly has some of the best engineers in the business and I’m sure they aren’t afraid of something that’s not “easy.”
All I ever said is that a 22.3mm square makes more sense than a 32mm square. You may not agree 22.3mm square makes any sense at all (certainly your prerogative), but you’ve said over and over in multiple ways that 32mm square makes less sense. On that we agree.
> It is just engineering, not a personal feeling, your
> square formats will not be made for EF or EF-S lenses.
I guess we’ll see.
It is funny how we can read each others comments and completely miss the point. In the spirit of my first post. The 22.3 square makes no sense, to Canon, especially as you can already buy a 24mm square sensor kit, the 32mm square does make sense to Canon but has too many engineering issues, they are legacy issues from the original design of the EF/EOS system, to be viable.
We will see, but don’t hold your breath :-)
At MediaMarkt. There was a discount on all cameras last week, reducing the price of the 50D by €90. I got it tuesday! so no stock problems here.