1.45x Crop for the 7D?
I was sent an email saying that the new 7D will be APS-C, but with a 1.45x crop factor. Apparently this is the limit so that EF-S lenses still work without vignetting.
First appeared on a DPR forum posting, I couldn’t find the link.
I have no confirmed source for this one.
Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC
Received word that someone bumped into a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 VC (Vibration Correction) on Adorama’s web site. It was retailing for $749. The link has been removed from Adorama’s site.
Adorama give it up early?
cr
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??? what the heck…
Wow that’s unexpected. I’m with the group that wanted FF but 1.45x is bit better than 1.6x. Now I’m even more tempted to get it. Hope the price is right.
This is interesting.
While the pixel density of 18mp on a 1.6 sensor seems unachievable, I highly doubt we’d see a 1.45x crop factor introduced. While this may work for Canon EF-S lenses (I don’t think it would) there’s no way other lens manufacturers like Sigma would have been building lenses that work on 1.45x crops.
Additionally even if some of the lenses didn’t vignette we’d still see way too many faults on the edges of the wide-angles.
Also people, not the CR1 source. I don’t think this is happening at all.
Here’s the DPReview link:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=32849110
Thing this is a false rumour, if Canon was playing with crops it sounds like a feature they would want right there on the box, which it isn’t.
The Chinese spec didn’t mention about the crop factor but said APS-C Cmos sensor !
RC1 for tomorrow!? Miracle?
The box wouldn’t necessarily mention the crop factor; many consumers don’t even keep up with that.
This would be an interesting development if true; I still believe that Canon will have some surprises in store for us on the 7D and that they will blow us away on Sept 1.
This whole rumor makes me poop my pants. I have the Tamron 17-50mm (And love it). Could this new 1.45x have issues with non-canon lenses? And with Tamron cranking out a new 17-50, makes me wonder if they had some advanced notice which caused them to push this out.
come on canon, impress me!
That’d be awesome… Would give longer life to my 17-55 2.8 is
Yeah Canon sure knows how to blow you. It will probably have 22fps video.
Seriously, this is just a new take on someone’s wet dream of sensors that are FF, but crop when needed. When they can’t have that, then it’s gotta be 1.45x crop. Some brainiac figured out the lens would cover it.
Doubt it, but still… things get interesting…. In any event – will wait for in-depth reviews on this baby. Prices might be better for the boxing day..
Cool idea, since this is the kind of stuff that they don’t need to say to anyone before release. I mean, my local store told me that they’ve tried one for a couple of minute. It’s the kind of detail that you will not remark at first if the lens is on.
Also, I’ve been told built quality as good as 50D if not better (it’s subjective, I know). The coolest thing I’ve heard (it was rep pep talk) 7D ISO 1600 equivalent to 50D ISO 400… Please, don’t throw rocks at me, it’s only what I’ve been told.
Didn’t see anyone do the math in my quick scan of the 16 comments so far, but this would be the equivalent density of around a 38 Mpx full-frame sensor (18*1.45^2).
My guess is that the 7D will be a game changer. Also, if video is better than the 5dmkii, which it very well could be, with duel processors, then this will have the video crowd thrilled.
Ok so a 35mm on a 1.6 crop has the same field of view as a 50mm on a FF so what would focal length be for a 1.45 crop to match a 50mm on a FF?
I don’t believe in a new crop factor between 1.3 and 1.6.
I’m just about convinced at this point that the 7D isn’t going to blow my mind.
35mm
1.45 makes sense though, same pixel pitch as the 50D, but more pixels. Makes EF-S lenses a lot wider as well. A 10-22 becomes a 14.5-31.5 equiv, the 17-55/2.8 becomes a 24-77 equiv.
To be clear, a 35mm lens on 1.6 is equiv to 56mm on full frame, on 1.45, the 35mm lens is equiv to 50mm almost exactly.
I feel sorry for Nikon; they’ll have to drop the price of their new D300s and fast.
cant u guys just wait a few more hours to 1st september??? a few more hours…
Whoops, sorry, for the question you were actually asking, you have to divide rather than multiply. I read carelessly and thought you were asking what a 50mm lens acts like on a 1.45x sensor, not what lens on 1.45x is equivalent to 50. My bad. So the actual answer is 50 / 1.45 = 33.3. A 35mm lens will do the job nicely; Canon’s 35 f/2 is inexpensive and very nice if you don’t mind the sound of buzzing bees when the non-USM autofocus motor runs.
Thanks. Forgot about the rounding.
Thanks. Already have the 35mm 1.4L Beautiful lens and personal favorite.
wish it had been 1.45 crop with 15 mp, but that`s still much better than 1.6 crop.
“Apparently this is the limit so that EF-S lenses still work without vignetting.”
Vigneting is a non issue, most of it can be easily corrected in camera with “peripheral illumination correction”. One problem I see with this set up is that 1x viewfinder needs a bigger mirror that could “conflict” with the rear of the EF-S lenses. I have no idea how much tolerance is required for a bigger mirror to swing freely with the EF-S lenses. I honestly don’t think that Canon would be silly enough to break third-party lenses by introducing a new crop that would make them inoperable on their camera, that would really piss off a lot of people. Canon already has a lot of detractors (to be honest complaining mostly about their imaginary issues and non-issues) but bad press is bad press as inane as it is and they don’t need any REAL dissatisfied customers now.
For me, I hope that this rumor is true, it would give Canon a good edge over the competition I think, extra reach for those who need it, additional resolution for those who want it. Only few more house and we shall see…
I like the idea of a1.45x crop factor, but i doubt it’s coming. My reason for doubt is the 15-85, which will be a 24-135 on 1.6x crop.
that`s basically what canon said when the 50d was introduced. 2 stops of advantage! but I have yet to see that :)
almost impossible…
15-85 * 1.45 ~ 22-123
15-85 * 1.6 ~ 24-135
is more reasonable
so it should be aps-c will crop 1.6…
hmmm it`s august 31 tomorrow :)
“I don’t believe in a new crop factor between 1.3 and 1.6”
why not, nikon has it.
why would a 1.45 crop sensor make the thrid party lenses useless? d300 has a 1.5 crop sensor.
I really hope this rumor turns out to be true. It would be very strange and unlikely for Canon to introduce a new crop factor… but who knows. It would help explain the 18mp on a APS-C. Personally Id love to have a bit wider, more true, view from my L lenses while still getting a bit of extra zoom for sports.
Probably blow you towards D300s…
DUAL DIGIC IV
+1 ive been saying this.. the 7D will be a next generation camera killing the D300s and anything in its path
lame. i doubt this
Well APS-C is a loose term, Canon’s traditional APS-C is different than Sony’s or Nikon’s APS-C which is different from the original film APS-C.
Mmm, well considering Sigma and other 3rd party lens makers have to build for several mounts and Nikon’s mount is a 1.5 crop I don’t think a 1.45 crop will make that much difference; if anything it would affect Canon’s EF-S lenses more. There could be some sort of in-camera correction for vignetting too
interesting! I would assume that 3rd party glass makers would mass produce their glass (therefore 10-20 sigma would also cover the 1.5x crop of nikon…) and all the other difference of the lens is just the mount.
Have anyone seen a *leaked* wine bottles at ISO 6400 by the 7D? looks pretty clean for me.. although there is always ways to fake the EXIF data.
1 day to go… its getting more exciting by the minute!!
Because lenses designed for the canon EF-S mount system protrude into the camera body in a way that, for example, makes it impossible to use them with a FF body, because the larger 35mm mirror will literally hit the inside of the lens when it flips up.
The concern is that a 1.45 crop system would necessitate a larger mirror, and then end up hitting the inside of some lenses. It’s unlikely that Canon would allow the mirror to hit its own lenses, but third party lenses, which were not designed with a 1.45 crop factor in mind, could be a problem.
MY take? Bogus argument: the tolerances necessary to match the Canon EF and EF-S mount are absolutely tiny. Show me a third party lens that looks different (at the mount end) by even half a milimetre than any other third part lens or official canon lens. It doesn’t exist. They’re *identical*. If Canon could make a 1.45x crop work with their lenses, third part leses will also work.
This guy, who predicted correctly that it’ll be 18mp + 8 fps + 19 AF pts, also said the crop factor is between 1.3 and 1.6
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=32741739
THERE IS A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING HERE WITH REGARDS TO CROP FACTORS!!!
Canon is not introducing a new format. It is still APS-C
Nikon has been 1.5x crop as their sensors have been sized 23.6 x 15.8 mm.
Canon has been 1.6x crop as their sensors have been sized 22.3 x 14.9 mm.
Canon if this rumor is true are just making a 24 x 16 mm sensor that is the TRUE APS-C format size to make maximum use of the lenses.
Schnook! Wanna get me one for my bday :)
+1
“Could this new 1.45x have issues with non-canon lenses?”
Of course it could.
just curious. what makes a sensor apsc if they can produce these sensors in different sizes? does that mean any sensor that`s compatible with the ef-s lenses is called apsc?
Seen that picture too, pretty amazing! Rumor is 2 stops better than a 50D. As above the countdown is on….a D300s killer
Tim
1,45 would mean 22% more sensor area than 1,6 so it would definitely make a difference.
and even longer life to my 135 2.0 :-)
“Canon if this rumor is true are just making a 24 x 16 mm sensor that is the TRUE APS-C format size to make maximum use of the lenses.”
“True” APS-C size is 25.1mm x 16.7mm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS-C
“Canon has been 1.6x crop as their sensors have been sized 22.3 x 14.9 mm”
Not quite, only 500D and 50D use sensors exactly that size.
EOS D30 – 22.7 x 15.1
EOS D60 – 22.7 x 15.1
EOS 10D – 22.7 x 15.1
EOS 300D – 22.7 x 15.1
EOS 20D – 22.5 x 15.0
EOS 350D – 22.2 x 14.8
EOS 450D – 22.2 x 14.8
EOS 30D – 22.5 x 15.0
EOS 400D – 22.2 x 14.8
EOS 40D – 22.2 x 14.8
EOS 1000D – 22.2 x 14.8
APS-C („Advanced Photo System Classic“),
introduced 1996 by Kodak: 25,1 mm × 16,7 mm
For the moment, I don’t really care if this rumor is true or not. The only thing I care about right now is that the next 36 hours passes quickly so that I can regain my sanity. All this speculation is driving me batty. By the way, was anyone able to get a translation on the little box to the right of the “100% viewfinder” box, in the picture of the 7D poster. I’m pretty certain our answer lies there, but I haven’t got a translation from anyone yet. It might be too hard to read due to blur. Anyone? Anyone?
Not really, in the other side of the world its monday already, so plz dont think USA is the center of the universe.
Apart from unknown sensor specs, practically every other spec (fps, viewfinder, 14 bits, HD video, LCD II, # of cross AF points etc) beats the D300s.
Makes sense for a camera that many predicted as APS-H… Can’t wait til Tuesday!
Actually, I am more worried about the other way round. 3rd party lenses need to meet Sony/Nikon APS-C sensor spec which has a crop factor of 1.5x.
This is a US site after all….
Honestly, if this is true, it’ll blow me away.
right but, that doesn`t change the fact that we still have about 1 day untill the announcement, not just a few hours.
right. and now if you look closely to the sensor sizes of the canon aps-c line. they wary within the line-up by some tenth of millimeters…
Do you honestly think Canon cares how THIRD party lenses fare? ;)
They probably laugh at customers with 3rd party lenses: serve you right for not buying Canon. ;)
Sorry but the originator (in POTN) of that leaked photo has admitted it’s a fake based on his 50D.
Thanks for the info. Maybe the new sensor will be the full APS-C size of 25.1 x 16.7 mm?
Yes I remember that post.
Pretty amazing if true. I’m quite blown away.
If all the rumors turn up to be true, the 7D is destined for greatness and will fly off the shelves like the 20D when it first appeared.
Oh, one more thing. Not that anyone really cares what lens Tamron is coming out with (because everyone’s focussed on the 7D), but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents anyway. Tamrons VC is AWESOME!!! It really is AWESOME!!! The bad news is that you end up with an image that holds super steady, but is still blurred because their glass is crap. Sorry Tamron, I own two of your lenses, and they just sit at home. Maybe I’ll sell them with my 40D when the time comes. Just call’um as I see’um.
The 3rd party crops aren’t a problem – they are spec’d to work with Nikon 1.5x crop APS-C and they use the EF mount – which means they have enough flange focal distance to mount on your 1Ds or 5D.
Thats right.
Lets say for arguments sake the imaging circle diameter from an EF-S lens is 25mm and an EF lens is 36mm. Any sensor with a width and length less than 25mm would be able to produce an image without vignetting on an EF-S lens. So although there are variations in sensor sizes in the APS-C format they all work with EF-S lenses.
If Canon are making a new APS-C sensor to take maximum advantage of the EF-S imaging circle that is great news.
It is certainly not a new format and will work with all EF-S lenses unlike APS-H.
Less than 24 hrs to go…I think
Stop worshipping the D300s.
Hilarious! I gotta say I made the same mistake… :P
Tamron & Sigma sell lots of lenses to nokiN, Sonny, Pentax, etc. The APS-C is 1.5x in all these brands.
There wouldn’t be any issue with third party lenses, as they use the EF mount (I’ve put my Sigma 17-70 on a 5D before just for fun and it works, though it vignettes like crazy.
Third parties also make the same lenses for 1.5X, so I’m sure 1.45 would be pretty ok; I just don’t believe this rumor because the EF-S 15-85IS would have probably been a 16-85 instead. 15mm on 1.6x works out to 24mm FOV on 35mm. The spec sheet says the built-in flash has coverage equivalent to 24mm, so I’m sure it was to accommodate the new lens. So I’m sure it will be 1.6X.
I had originally been hoping for 18MP 1.3x, 8fps at around the same price as the 5D2, but at least this new camera will be less expensive and with those specs, it looks pretty interesting.
If this is true, i guess it explains
1. the 18Mpixels
2. the slighter wider built-in flash coverage
3. the in camera vignetting correction or something(read it somewhere not sure)
Whatever it is i would be getting this camera and i pray my 3rd party lenses would work well on the 7d. :)
Third party APS-C lenses mount and function on FF, but at 17mm, the vignetting is similar to an 8mm Fisheye.
My 10-22 would be like 14.5 at the SUPER-DUPER wide end. The 18-135 would be like 26-196. WOW! I’m in.
We’ll know in less than 24 hrs.
Funny enough … 18Mpx on a 1.45 crop is (almost) exactly the same density as 15Mpx on a 1.6 crop … interesting …
As I was saying in the previous 7D thread, what if its a 16:9 aspect ratio sensor? Sized at say 26.7 x 15mm instead ?
i) Its effectively a 1.45 crop ( in terms of area ) giving a 20% increase in sensor size. (15Mp + 20% = 18Mp) But 1.35 crop wide (works better in ‘wide’ mode ??) And 1.6 crop high .
ii) It will have no compatibility issues with EF-S or EF lenses. All that is needed is an automatic in-camera cropping mode. 16:9 EF mode in 18mp, 3:2 EF-S mode in 15Mp
iii) It will be excellent for HD video in native 16:9 aspect.
iv) It also effectively “encourages” users to upgrade to EF lenses without leaving out ‘legacy’ EF-S users. You just need the EF lenses to maximise the sensor, nothing lost if used in 3:2 mode with EF-S lenses or chose to use the 3:2 aspect ratio.
v) It can also use the viewfinder as found on the 1D as the leaked pictures seem to show.
A major win-win for Canon as it will be a great marketing trump card, while a viable alternative ‘wide’ users too!
not bad logic…but i dont see cannon following
I’m in even if it’s as good as the 50D at the same ISO.
+2
Now Canon is even copying Nikon’s crop factor.
I think ppl just tend to forget that time is so relative when making comments like that, not implying American-centrism
I agree that your logic is good, but native 16:9 may not really matter since native HD video is only about 2mp (1920 x 1080 = 2073600). Also, all of the cameras that do have HD video, inherently have an auto cropping feature when they switch between 16:9 video and 3:2 still. I do think you’re on to something though, or maybe this is what you were getting at and I misunderstood. It would be good if they made a FF camera that auto-cropped when it detected an EF-S lens. Of course your resolution would go down, but versatility would be improved. Of course, if they would do away with all this APS-C and APS-H crap, all would be at peace in the universe.
Ok. You could have just looked up the real numbers, like 43mm for FF
25mm diameter means diagonal on a rectangle. So….
It also pegs the camera as targeted at ppl who have ff glass and would want a camera with good AF and a dense sensor, like birders
Did it have 24p?
It almost seems that way, doesn’t it: EF-S/DX 17-55 f/2.8 (Canon improves on it with IS and better optical quality), 100 f/2.8 Macro IS/VR, pro-spec APS-C.
On the other hand, Nikon has followed Canon’s lead in the use of CMOS sensors, telephoto VR lenses and TSE lenses.
Perhaps the Japanese companies share knowledge with each other? ;)
I am pretty sure what Canon will have in store for us tomorrow. An camera with pixel-binning. Combining 4 pixels into 1 to reduce noise hence giving us 4.5mp.
THE G11 has this feature although with an ccd and not cmos. Im still hopefull though because otherwise 18mp @ iso 1600 wont probably look any good. Right?
And actually because of the fact that the crop-rumor is seemingly neverending im starting to think there is something more to it than just air.
+1, no way
pipe dream
You know that could happen, and with the dual digic IV, it could be a higher resolution than just 1080p, whch could let it compete with cameras such as the Red Scarlet.
Of course that’s just wishful thinking.
Also 16:9 = introduction of Canon anamorphic lenses?
You’re getting dumber with each post.
+1
I guess we need to wait for 1 more day to find out.
Nope. Canadian.
What? The 17-50/28-75 are sharper than the 17-40L/24-105L I sold!! The 17-50 is one of THE sharpest lenses out there. Sure they make lots of junk too, but focus on the real stuff.
Of course that could also be why someone made up 1.45x just as easily ;)
We’ll see……………….
That thought had crossed my mind too; in fact, the original film APS-H size used a 16:9 ratio. The reason I don’t think it’s likely is that this camera’s primary purpose is not for video and 16:9 ratios are strange for prints. Eventually 16:9 may become a more standard format for cameras as people start to use their TV more and more for slide shows and video, but that’s still a few more years away. Nevertheless, I see no reason why the 7D’s video can’t be at least as good as the 5DII’s (at least in decent light)
Bigger mirror might mean AF at f/8
Can you say “gee those corners are dark”?
They also have only one crop factor, this would mean three.
What is the image circle diameter for an EF-S lens?
WTF are you talking about? do u know what you are saying? u son of a b*tch
Hot air is more than just air…
Using your logic and the possibility of having the new 15-85 as a standard kit lens, the sensor will probably be 1.6 crop. You see, 15*1.6=24. I hope I’m wrong, though, because a 1.45 crop would be so awesom.
Why should Canon worry about Sigma??? :O
1.45 looks logical….but that’s too good to be true. Imagine 10-22 on 1.45 it will be 14.5mm :) (and it still will perform good).
But who knows.
The sensor will be bigger than Nikon’s (Actually Sony’s) sensor.
Competition is a great thing. Canon got burnt with the 1d III auto focus issues and the 5D II which has great features but no sealing and poor autofocus. I think Sony have shown that people want a good viewfinder and Nikon have shown they want a good autofocus and build quality. I think the 7D will have a great viewfinder, autofocus and build quality. You can thank competition for that.
Probably. But I’m sure it brings some happiness to most people on this forum.
Nikon copied Sony, Sony copied Pentax, Pentax copied Kodak.
My friend had a D300 for a while. He moved on to D700 and has called the D300 a POS since. He loves the 700 and hates the 300 with a passion.
fullframe: Whats up with you? Got some hot air in your lungs or something? Chillax dudette.
I totaly agree with you!!! I was thinking exactly the same thing… Why they don’t make just one camera to satisfy all customers???
FF with 18mp for those who want FF, and posibility to switch to 1,6 crop if you want to take advantage of the extra telephoto power of the lenses with this crop factor or the extra (8) fps???
maybe the leaks with the ef-s lense is a commercial trick, to saw that the 7D is compatible with ef-s lenses…(or at least i truly hope so!!!!!!)
;-)
Well. ehh.. you don’t have to buy a 7D ( ;- )
Giving the camera the name of 7D is serious business. I still have faith in Canon and I know they thought it through. I’m sure it’ll make most people happy.
With an EF-S mounted to the 7D in the poster, I’d like to be realistic and say it’s probably going to be a 1.6x crop. If it is a 1.45x that could be pretty cool, and would sweeten the deal. I just don’t know how realistic that sounds. If that poster was a hoax from Canon and it was FF after all that would require me to put on some Depends diapers.
It’ll probably be $1899 upon release. If its any cheaper there’d be no reason to buy the 60D unless they drop that camera’s price down to the triple digits upon release. It seems like everything they’re selling is getting more expensive by the day. My bet is between 1800-2000. Sure if it were $1300 that’d be awesome :D.
As others have said…we’ll find out soon enough.
you can still find the Tamron 17-50 VC in google’s cache:
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:tYSfhkQCrdIJ:www.adorama.com/searchsite/default.aspx%3Fsearchinfo%3DTamron%2B17-50%2Bf%252F2.8+adorama+tamron+17-50+vc&cd=4&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=be&client=firefox-a
Fullframe I think you should learn some manners.
By way of explanation: with their current 1.6 crop cameras Canon support autofocus only to f/5.6 lenses. I photograph birds using a Canon 40D and 500mm f/4 lens and 1.4 teleconvetor = 700mm @ f/5.6. The lens, of course, autofocuses as Canon states it will. It will not autofocus with a 2x convertor = f/8 (even with taped pins)
I used to use a Canon 400D with 400mm lens and 1.4 tc = 560mm @ f/8. If you tape certain teleconvertor pins you can trick that camera to usefully autofocus at f/8. This doesn’t work with the 40D.
It seems to me that support for autofocus at f/8 is a near-run-thing and perhaps more light being made available from a larger mirror could tip the light equation to support autofocus at f/8.
From a manufacturing stand point, it’s not an issue with Canon since they make their own sensors. If anything, it serves as a reminder to the general buyer why Canon always has an advantage over other brand names.
HOWEVER, whether it’s possible for EF-S lenses to work with 1.45x crop is still unknown.
At this stage, it’s still a rumor. Just one more day to go and we’ll know the truth. :)
not really, unless you’d go FF. there, the vigneting of fast FF-glass fully open will actually be much moar present. which is a nice thing IMHO
hoho, 1.45 crop thatl do 8.235 fps, and shoot 24.765 fps video. why not make al those numbers uneaven
There is no doubt SOME Tamron glass is optically superb.
However, their autofocus is pretty bad.
If we’re looking at
50D: x1.6 with 15MP had noise issue.
7D : x1.45 with same pixel density should be 16.55MP
so 18MP still increases pixel density.
Question is, will it increase noise as well?
Canon should lighten the weight, lower the spec and reduce the price of the 60D to match the D90. :)
This is not true.
My 100-400 L autofocusses on my 20D with a 1.4x TC attached at the long end (=5.6 * 1.4).
Need moarrrrrrrrrr spyshots, leaks, especially of the vertical grip.
Please……
Not a bad idea Haha :). I remember seeing the specs for the 50D and thinking I wouldn’t pay more than $1000 for that thing.
I’m sure the 60D will just be the 50D with more AF points and better noise reduction…oh and Video.
Wow. Thanks a million
Its written “16:9” on the poster and not 63 zones as people are speculating…thats y this crop factor fuzz.
Hmm so who is right? I’m not a hardcore bird photographer but this is kind of interesting.
I’ve heard of people camping out for days in camo-tents with 600mm lenses waiting for exotic birds to fly in. Is this true? Does it really take several hours to days of waiting?
– Minh
A 1.6 crop works by (1/1.6 x 1/1.6)x Area of FF
A 1.45 crop works out as (1/1.45 x 1/1.45) x Area of FF
Mathematically a 1.45crop works out to be 1.21x the area of a 1.6 crop.
Which working backwards => 18 / 1.21 = 15Mp.
Proof that most people on this forum are F’n idiots.
The 10-22 and other EF-S lenses already have vignetting problems, they would be practically useless at 1.45x
Look up some example pictures of EF-S lenses mounted to 1DIII bodies (you can do it if you remove the rubber on the lens), there’s no way that lens would function properly on anything less than 1.6x crop
The 10-22 vignettes a little as it is, on a 1.6x crop, what do you think that means for 1.45x? IT WOULD BE USELESS. Christ, you people need to *think* about this crap, it’s not difficult to understand.
Still no pixel density decreased.
Unless new super technology used we’re looking at same noise level :(
Why it’s not 15MB with x1.45?
In addition, if people actually bother to read DXOMark’s article comparing the sensor of the 500D vs D5000:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Insights/Canon-500D-T1i-vs.-Nikon-D5000
you’ll learn:
(i) “Canon EOS 500D sensor is nevertheless an exceptional sensor with a very small pixel pitch and very low RAW noise”
(ii) “the Canon EOS 500D is a bit more color blind in comparison with the Nikon D5000. To compensate, a greater degree of color processing is applied, which increases (chroma) noise”
(iii) “Canon EOS 500D behaves the same way as many other Canon cameras… that is, the readout noise becomes predominant and… explains why the Canon EOS 500D’s dynamic range does not increase between ISO 200 and ISO 100 and obtains only 11.5 eV as its maximum dynamic range measurement”
(iv) Pixel size has NOTHING to do with the performance of the 50D/500D sensor
Looks like AF support has decreased with the more recent models. The 40D definately disables AF with f/8 combinations, and I cannot trick it by taping the t/c pins, the 400D also disables AF, but I can trick it to autofacus by taping certain t/c pins.
Mine doesn’t, you’re full of #$%#. Unless you take the pins or use a TC that doesn’t report the aperture, f/8 will not AF on anything other than a 1D body.
Why do you need a picture of the vertical grip? They all look basically the same.
I think it depends on the TC used as well as the sequence of attaching lens+TC to the camera. :)
I own the Kenko 1.4x TC. I notice that if I turn on my camera, attach the lens to the TC, then attach the TC with lens to the camera, the latter does not seem to detect the presence of the TC. Weird. LOL
Two words, 90mm f2.8 Macro.
Okay, three words.
Err, one word, two acronyms and a couple of numbers.
Well you get the idea.
You’re doing a great job! Thank you!
I’m wondering if it’s a more molded grip this time and is able to use 1D series batteries.
And i said please…….
+1
Crop 1,6x is absolutely perfect as it is. EF-S lenses are designed for it. And all 3rd party lenses designed for up to 1.5x crop are even better when used on 1.6x Crop sensors.
If Tamron upgrades its excellent 17-50 with a ultrasonic AF drive and IS and dont hike the price too much, they’ll sell a lot of them!
I loved the my 17-50 IQ-wise but sold and bought an EF-S 17-55 … because of the IS and USM autofocus
All I am doing is speculating that an f/8 lens might autofocus with a 7D.
Does anyone also thinks that it worth buying 5DII instead of 7D?
By rumors, 7D costs $1800 while 5D is $2699.
Buy for this 1/3 increase in price ($700) you get FF.
If you add 24-105L lens into calculation:
5DII + 24-105L = $3500 + super-duper extra fine pictures
7D + 24-105L = $1800 + $1200 = $3000 + noisy pictures.
cons: 4fps instead of 8. (I personally do not need 8fps)
+1 no need for the 17-55 from canon anymore as soon as the tamron comes…
i read the 1.45 thing yesterday in the forums, I must say its great that canon is thinking out of the box and coming with new stuff. now for the dude that posted above me if its worth buying a 5DMKII… of course if you have the money for it, some will buy the 7D and not exactly with the 24-105, for that price i’ll buy the 24-70 with it.
I was thinking of buying a used 1D MKIII and now i don’t know what to do anymore ahhahha some help here people !
My friend told me it will be 1.44X
No, make that 1.43X
Hi guys check this out:
http://a.imagehost.org/0522/CropComparison.gif
1.45 is not THAT much bigger then 1.6, easy to see how old EF-S lenses would still function perfectly fine on the new sensor.
PS Can you imbed images here? I don’t know how.
Or was it 1.42X???
Buy a camera that suits your needs best. Obviously these 2 cameras are different enough for you to judge which suits best.
But if you think about it from another point of view, e.g.
John Doe has a EOS 30D with EF-S 10-22 and EFS 17-55 F2.8
In order to upgrade to full frame with equivalent lenses, he must not only buy a more expensive EOS 5D (/Mk ii) camera, but also the EF 16-35 F2.8L (or EF 17-40 F4L) and the EF 24-70 F2.8L.
This adds considerably to the cost, not all of us are professionals!
With more proper weather sealing that is enough for me :)
that one neither sorry :( i tried
http://www.flickr.com/groups/canondslr/discuss/72157604422834954/?search=lemon
Using the link above, you can see what the 10-22 EF-S zoom lens can do when adapted to fit on a 1D mk iii (1.3 crop) ; the vignetting is not too bad. If you scroll you can also see the results on a 5D camera. Strangely, the vignetting is more important when the 17-55 is used on 1.3 crop camera.
sigma 10-20 works on 1d and vignetts at 10mm but at 11mm it’s fine.. No mirror problems and you get really wide angle..
So i dont think there’ll be any mirror problems, only vingnetting with sigma lenses and 1,45crop
This is very credible. Canon only need to worry about the increase in the distance of the vertical dimension of the mirror divided in half. And only Canon EF-S lenses actually protrude more past the lens flange, the 3rd-pary lenses are just EF mount lenses with APS-C sized image circles. So let’s say the EF-S 10-22mm is the only lens that would give a potential problem, since it would have its rearmost element closest to the sensor, and thus, the mirror. Canon would only have to measure how much additional clearance they would need to clear that rearmost lens element. And I think they figured it out that an increase to 1.45x is the largest they could do it without the larger mirror hitting the rearmost element of this EF-S lens.
Let’s keep on going down ’till FF.
i would go up the other side and bet it’ll be a 1.46
imagine the sigma 10-22 on a 1.001x crop body. that would be allmost 10-22. wide angle rocks, man
1.45x crop. no, we wants a sub 5 cent pro-FF-body
can you guys just go to sleep? its almost 5am now…
A 16:9 sensor is a very good idea (similar to those Panasonic point and shoot cameras that have this).
Possibly too groundbreaking for Canon to implement.
It would really send a message that Canon is serious about video on SLR cameras.
I still stand by my comment that Canon is holding everything back until Nikon releases it.
High res monitors released directly after Nikon did.
14mm MK II released directly after Nikon’s 14mm zoom.
Video released directly after Nikon did.
etc. etc. etc.
I understand why they do this, but it would be nice if they stretched their neck out a bit and let a few features out without being forced to release them just to keep competitive.
Don’t have to imagine – the 10-20mm is an EF mount, not EF-s. I’ve strapped it to my EOS-500N (35mm film), and it’s bloody amazing. Except the image circle is too small @ 10-15mm; 16mm is just about usable.
it depends where you are ! 11 am in the UK / 12 am in Europe.
With that comment I felt that I just had to join the forum.
I feel right at home!
Just saw this:
圖像感應器尺寸為22.3×14.9毫米，拍攝視角相當於鏡頭焦距的約1.6倍。
Don’t think I need to translate this.
It’s from a Taiwan forum (M01), in a long production description. Very real if you ask me.
I can’t wait for to have a HD video capable camera but I have no idea why 16:9 is a good idea for a SLR stills camera. 16:9 is a TV ratio, 3:2 is pretty standard for photography. I couldn’t imagine turning my camera portrait style very often with 16:9.
Besides, with 18MP, I’m sure you can afford to crop off the top and bottom.
being able to switch framerates and ratio aspects would totally blow my mind.
Only where you live :P. It’s late afternoon here. Still wishing that the “JPEG anger quality of photometry” of this new 7D is the high-kicking sheznit. LOLOLZER
Cool. Can you provide the link for it?
Something interesting to read
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php%3Ff%3D244%26t%3D1211890&ei=jqWbStTEItiCkQWC3vGrAg&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E5%259C%2596%25E5%2583%258F%25E6%2584%259F%25E6%2587%2589%25E5%2599%25A8%25E5%25B0%25BA%25E5%25AF%25B8%25E7%2582%25BA22.3%25C3%259714.9%25E6%25AF%25AB%25E7%25B1%25B3%25EF%25BC%258C%25E6%258B%258D%25E6%2594%259D%25E8%25A6%2596%25E8%25A7%2592%25E7%259B%25B8%25E7%2595%25B6%25E6%2596%25BC%25E9%258F%25A1%25E9%25A0%25AD%25E7%2584%25A6%25E8%25B7%259D%25E7%259A%2584%25E7%25B4%25841.6%25E5%2580%258D%25E3%2580%2582%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3D9W4
So what? you get that from a forum, it’s maybe a simple user talkin about the 1.6 crop, no more no less, don’t be fool :/
Awesomeness, thanks for the link.
From the link:
“shooting angle is equivalent to about 1.6 times lens focal length.”
So much there, looks pretty genuine to me.
Interesting that the full HD video can be set to 24/25/30 fps and even 720 HD video can be set to 50/60fps.
Alot of people will go for this camera because of this…
Pixel size at 1.45x and 18MP is equivalent to 14.7MP at 1.6x crop. Maybe they should just round it to 1.5x and admit that Nikon was right all along.
Nothing a little in body compensation couldn’t handle
And this only discourages those people who 1. care about the crop and 2. are bad at math
OK. Found it.
Yes, sensor size is indeed 22.3 x 14.9 mm. That is a 1.6x crop.
In addition:
1) 內置閃光燈發出的光脈衝可以通過無線信號，與具備無線從屬功能的SPEEDLITE 580EX II、580EX、430EX II、430EX、420EX等進行信號傳輸
Yes, wireless flash control indeed. :)
2) Available end of Sep
3) AF with f/5.6 or faster lenses only
4) 19 AF points only. No more. But AF points can be grouped into 5 regions for AF tracking.
5) Exposure compensation extends to +/-5 eV
6) Spot metering can now be tied to individual AF point
7) New imaging sensor electronics improves signal to noise ratio
8) LCD is new Polymer Network LCD.
9) Battery is LP-E6 (same as 5D2)
5)
It’s the Canon official announcement statement in mandarin… leaked of course. :)
Very long detailed articles. Unlikely to be fake.
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=244&t=1211890&last=14415697
and
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=244&t=1211468&last=14415640
You can choose to dismiss it. I believe in it.
I’ll go with slow, but my 28-75 is accurate
What time is the actual announcement conference in EST?
I can’t wait it !!!1
I am clearly skeptical about this one though I do like the idea. [CR1] seems appropriate.
Though this could explain why Canon is also announcing 2 new walk around lenses, they may have less vignetting? Dont they already offer several EF-S walk around lenses, why do we need 2 more? This is from memory but I think we already have…
18-55
18-55 IS
18-55 IS II
18-85 IS
18-200
17-50
where did you see that???
That will be awesome!
10) Movie mode in 24/25/30 fps
+1
短片拍攝功能中的全高清（1920×1080）可以選擇每秒30/25/24幀的幀速，高清（1280×720）以及標清（640×480）可以選擇更為流暢的每秒60/50幀的幀速
taken from http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=244&t=1211890&last=14415697
This is the official Canon announcement statement in mandarin
That would be such a great strategy, though — 3 DSLR sensor size! FF, 1.4, 1.45 and 1.6. What fun!
oops — fat fingered. make that ff, 1.3, 1.45 and 1.6.
Monday’s already in full swing it seems.
“Built-in flash light pulses sent through radio signals, and with the wireless slave function SPEEDLITE 580EX II, 580EX, 430EX II, 430EX, 420EX, etc. for signal transmission, in order to achieve alone or multi-flash flash flash only”
Sounds like it’s got wireless flash trigger in-built. Can the flashes mentioned be triggered with a radio signal, I thought it was IR only?
So…this is the end of the 1.45 dream…too bad.
And i can’t help myself to think how good this camera could be
at 12MP…:(((
But regardless of what time it is locally for any of use, the announcement will be made when it’s made. It doesn’t happen differently for each of us.
Oh, and by the way, isn’t it taking place in Europe? So, my guess here is that it’s about 24 hours from right now (“right now” being 7am Eastern US Time)
From Canon site
http://www.canon.com/press/2006/ef_lens.html
APS-C size (22.2 x 14.8 mm) image sensors.
Doubtful.
The marketing department was pushing for 28.6Mpixels but the top engineer said 12Mpixels provided the best image.
They settled for 18Mpixels and that one engineer got fired for blasphemy.
This is my first post here. I’m looking to upgrade from my 30D so I’ve been following the 7D/60D rumors closely.
Just one comment (and no offense intended) but jeeeeeez! How many birders are out there ? I imagine they would be a relatively small interest group compared to the “average” APS-C camera user which I consider myself to be i.e. vacation shots, some portrait work and themed projects etc.
That being said, I hope the 7D fulfills the needs/wishes of the average user and the birders.
AJS
Northlight have $1699
If this release is true, it’s claiming 19 cross-type focal points with 8 double-cross type. What is that exactly?
Also, it says the LCD will be anti-glare, which is nice.
To answer my own question, the release seems to state those double-cross help in low light, saying “Since these are used for the focus of the corresponding F5.6 beam sensor”
you still have sRAW 1 mode, don’t you?
You should read the link! It also claims a better servo function, with subject tracking, both vertical and horizontal.
“EOS 7D uses a newly developed non-contact electromagnetic rotary speed electronically controlled mechanical focal plane shutter, and its basic structure inherited the EOS 5D Mark II has been successfully applied on the shutter unit. And use with the EOS-1D series of the same material, reaching about 15 million times a shutter life”
A new post on DPR XXD forums with leaked info from Taiwan comfirms it’s a 1.6x.
Video capture features in full HD (1920 × 1080) can choose to 30/25/24 frames per second frame rate, HD (1280 × 720) and SD (640 × 480) can select a more fluid per 60 / 50 of the frame rate.
9 CET
The only spec that dissapoints me is the f/5.6 or faster lens to AF. I was hoping for up to f/8. But, i still like it. This could be an awesome camera when used with an 400/f5.6. No need for a converter anyway with all those mp’s.
This sounds like a dream camera for decent price for me, im in game :)
again and again! the noise would be much better on a lower density sensor. Add to this huge files to process…
And a new BG-E7.
Going to bed now, it will be September 1 in about 2 hours. Not much longer to wait after i wake up again.
Again and again, if people actually bother to read DXOMark’s article comparing the sensor of the 500D vs D5000:
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Insights/Canon-500D-T1i-vs.-Nikon-D5000
they’ll learn that:
(i) “Canon EOS 500D sensor is (nevertheless) an exceptional sensor with a very small pixel pitch and very low RAW noise”
(ii) “the Canon EOS 500D is a bit more color blind in comparison with the Nikon D5000. To compensate, a greater degree of color processing is applied, which increases (chroma) noise”
(iii) “Canon EOS 500D behaves the same way as many other Canon cameras… that is, the readout noise becomes predominant and… explains why the Canon EOS 500D’s dynamic range does not increase between ISO 200 and ISO 100 and obtains only 11.5 eV as its maximum dynamic range measurement”
(iv) Pixel size has NOTHING to do with the performance of the 50D/500D sensor
Well, if theres a battery from 5DM2, dont think there will be new Grip for it
do you want to say that 10 to 12 MP would not perform better at high iso versus 18 MP, on the same sensor size???
In one word, yes.
The 24 MP Nikon D3X has BETTER performance than the 12 MP D3.
The 12 MP D300 has MUCH BETTER performance than the 6 MP D100.
From the link a few post above it’s clear the sensor is an 1.6 crop.
Anyway, it also seems the sensor has been redesigned focusing on increasing the efficiency of light coupling to the sensor.
A more efficient sensor would imply more signal for the same noise so it might be able to yield equivalent SNR to lower density sensors.
My perception is that Canon image has been quite damaged by the poor quality of the 50D, and many users are starting to think seriously about Nikon migration.
I think this camera is just a “disguised” 60D addressed to solve this problem (and as the gap between 500D-50D-7D becomes smaller it would make sense to merge the xxxD and XXD series. Just my speculation!).
If the marketing plan is to fight the D300s, I’m quite certain that Canon would not go to a super high noise camera, specially in a market segment that is quite aware of the megapixel race pitfalls,
We must wait for the first reviews, all the FF/1.6 discussion is meaningless until then.
Sorry, but you are talking about different technologies.
With the same technology used,this camera could have at least 1 stop high iso advantage for a 10 to 12 MP sensor.
8 directional center AF means: horizontal + vertical + diagonal
holymother, the price of that tamron lens is wicked o.o
id rather get the non-VC
No kidding? I stand corrected.
Why do you say “poor quality of the 50D”?
That’s a good point.
I was going to make that EXACT point. Everybody should understand, however, that the Peripheral Illumination Correction works by either pumping up the ISO or ‘brightening’ the areas in the corners resulting in reduced image quality in those areas. Further, PIC profiles appear to be only available for Canon branded lenses. Not a problem for me, but others might be miffed when the edges of the pictures from their SIGMA lens are significantly dark.
I’m with ya.
I am hoping for AF to F8.
This would probably be enough extra for me to spend the $500 I am guessing the 7D will be over the 60D
he likely meant the high-ISO quality, the 40D was proved to have a better high ISO then the 50D
dman, why for each new model from Canon there must be a new battery grip =.=
Becouse the 50D was just an EPIC FAIL after the 40D…
LOL!
so angry, there are classes for that ya know, lol
It’s not about the quality it’s just that 50D is “obsolete”.
I was “too much” incremental, and has been clearly surpassed by competition in functionality. It could had made it if the image quality was best in class, but again no. The poor sales are a clear prove of this.
As of today, if I had to buy a camera (figure I can’t wait for 7D) I would go for a “half-price” 40D or some other brand (if i had spent little on glass of course).
DXOMark shows NO significant difference between 50D and 40D despite the increase in pixel count
REAL LIFE tests showed more banding, high ISO performance worse than 40D, per-pixel detail not as good as on 40D, and the list goes on.
We also wants a Porsche for the price of a Civic.
I’m pretty sure I’m right on this one, no way 1.45
In fact, I’ll tell ya what An, let’s make a deal. Whoever is wrong never comes back to this forum. Deal?? That would mean that you have to go to another forum and call other people “non-Canon pros and fn idiots. (of course you probably already belong to every forum on the internet, seems that’s all you do, but…)
Are your balls big enough to take my bet?
+1
Or maybe cheaper
I think it is 0.98
Dude, it is a blog, not a forum.
Banding has to do with electronics, NOT pixel size
Per-pixel detail has more to do with strength of AA filter
Why only 18MP…I want 24MP.
Gosh…I think Canon makes a hit on this one.
But that’s the point, isn’t it?
Technology improves sensor quality despite increase in pixel count. D3x vs D3 is the prime example.
Do NOT dismiss a sensor just because it’s got higher pixel density. It’s the end results that matter.
Things I do NOT understand is…
We are hours from release, there must be many 7Ds circulating around the globe right now for showings.
Why do we have so little information and pictures from this camera? :)
Crazy skills – Canon stealth!
because there is no 7D :) they are just rumours
true true :)
every rumour on this site is created by Nikons.
Well, I think the CR guy is actually Canadian. :-)
The press conference will surely be held at 1:00PM Sep. 1st in Japan time.
http://digicame-info.com/2009/08/9113.html
More specificly, 14hrs to go !!! :)
But this is what joins us, no?
It doesn’t matter if rumor is true at the end.
Some joined by love, some by fear and we by rumors :)
True, true. Intel doubles number of semiconductors on their chips every 18-month, so why can’t canon?
So I except for 60D to be 15MP * 2 = 30MP – and please APS-C or less :)
In order to exchange IR with wireless non-optical system canon will need to replace all existing flashes or at least release new versions. It wouldn’t be canon if price for such will not doubled. Take for example of external wired remote for 50D, canon sells it for ~$300 which is almost price of Rebel :)
17-50 is very sharp.
With the new 15-85 lens, a 1.45 crop seems even more interesting.
However, it’s still not FF and I won’t upgrade to something less than FF.
Also, I don’t believe this rumor, Canon won’t change their APS-C.
i don’t need hundreds of MP..
I really need 12 good MP. So i would preferred 12MP cleaner sensor with the same tehcnology…becouse they are able to do it.
Man, what is so hard to understand??
You read too much on that DXO site…
I don’t think it’s anything but 1.6
I’d like it to be FF but looks like not this year :(
maybe just the square root of 2 = 1.414…
definitely cheaper…
there are indeed too many EF-S’s that start at 15, 17 or 18mm:
18-55 f/3.5-5.6
18-55 f/3.5-5.6 II
18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS
17-85 f/4.5-5.6 IS
17-55 f/2.8 IS
18-200 f/3.5-5.6 IS
and if the rumour is true then also;
15-85 f/3.5-5.6 IS
18-135 f/3.5-5.6 IS
most boring is that not only there is a considerable focal range overlap among them but also that the great majority of them are f/3.5-5.6 . if the longer ones like 18-200 and 18-135 were possible to design with that maximum aperture, why can’t the shorter ones like 18-55 or 15-85 be f/2.8-4.0 for example?!!! The only fast one is plagued with dust, softness and price-tag problems. Canon keeps on coming up with new designs every know then but fails to ever notice what are the problems with the existing ones, they remind me of a joke that someone whose name was something like “John Catastrophe” kept on changing it to “Jack Catastrophe”, “James Catastrophe” …, without ever realizing where is the problem, funny but tragic in the same time!!
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0909/09090105canoneos7d.asp
Same old Canon 1.6 FOV, $2100 CDN
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