DPReview: Canon EOS R vs Nikon Z 6 vs Sony a7 III, which is best?

[Mikehit]

btw: why stupid Sony does not implement really right, fully articulated and totally responsive touchscreens also beats me. If I were them, I would.

Canon don't have the technology for sensors to maximise in that area, Sony do have touch screen technology but don't use it (and flip screen technology and command ring technology).
'Innovative' obviously comes in different forms.

 

[3kramd5]

Canon don't have the technology for sensors to maximise in that area

What does that mean?

Sony do have ... command ring technology [but don’t use it].

I’m not sure Sony has “command rings” per se, though that’s exactly what the focus and aperture rings do on fly by wire lenses. Also many Sony lenses have programmable buttons, and I don’t think there’s much room to argue that something you spin is innovative but something you press isn’t.

If the market demands more functions driven by the lens, I don’t doubt they’ll be able to offer it.

 

[Aussie shooter]

Christmas Day is a fictional concept.
No mercy for Canon.

Yet you seem to be a loyal canon customer.

 

[brad-man]

I find it quite amusing to see so many folks trying to have a logical debate with an obtuse opponent whose motto seems to be "facts and statistics are a fictional concept". Is this some kind of New Year's resolution?

 

[Mikehit]

What does that mean?

Most of Sony's advantages are driven by the on-chip processing, things such as shooting rate while using AF, full frame 4K video and (on the A9) no-blackout shooting on for action to name only three.
They are pretty equal on DR but Sony still has the edge in things that require data transfer.

I’m not sure Sony has “command rings” per se, though that’s exactly what the focus and aperture rings do on fly by wire lenses. Also many Sony lenses have programmable buttons, and I don’t think there’s much room to argue that something you spin is innovative but something you press isn’t.

If the market demands more functions driven by the lens, I don’t doubt they’ll be able to offer it.

That was sort of my point. People talked about Sony 'innovation' when what they really meant was that Sony did things other manufacturers already has but put them all into one body. What I would call less 'innovation' and more scattergun approach to maximise appeal to the widest market.

 

[3kramd5]

Most of Sony's advantages are driven by the on-chip processing, things such as shooting rate while using AF, full frame 4K video and (on the A9) no-blackout shooting on for action to name only three.
They are pretty equal on DR but Sony still has the edge in things that require data transfer.

Yes their DRAM stacked sensors have significant throughput. That’s undeniable.

 

[4fun]

If the market demands more functions driven by the lens, I don’t doubt they’ll be able to offer it.

Not sure whether yet one more ring on each lens is a "smart" innovation. Nikon approach with user re-assignable focus ring looks better to me. And best solution for me would be a multi-functional "control ring" on camera itself, around lens mount ... instead of on each lens.

 

[3kramd5]

Not sure whether yet one more ring on each lens is a "smart" innovation. Nikon approach with user re-assignable focus ring looks better to me. And best solution for me would be a multi-functional "control ring" on camera itself, around lens mount ... instead of on each lens.

I don’t think it need be an additional ring. They could use a toggle to switch what the focus ring does, for example, or allow the user to assign it a different function when in non-manual or DMF mode.

Point being, I can’t paint Sony with a lack of innovation simply because they don’t have a “twist-it” to control camera functions in lens. The communications protocol exists, and is active with a different user interface than canon chose.

 

[Hector1970]

"Good" is not the point - I want to take better photos and under a wider range of conditions than I can with my 5DIV, and I am not going to take up another hobby.

Like what exactly Alan. What change to a 5D IV would make your photographs better.

 

[AlanF]

Like what exactly Alan. What change to a 5D IV would make your photographs better.

Removing the AA-filter or best of all have the option of switching it on or off and increase the mpx to 40 or 50. Improve the AF up to the new Nikon standard for the D850. I usually grab my 5DSR rather than my 5DIV because I get much better fine detail for bird plumage. The better IQ makes my photos better. The AA-filter and additional mpx would be a real gain, not a hype on specs. As mentioned in another thread, I have just come back from a long safari and have been comparing shots taken by me with a 5DIV + 400mm DO II + 2xTC and my wife with the 5DSR + 100-400mm II + 1.4xTC, and the 5DSR shots are sharper.

 

[martti]

I got the Sony A7III some weeks back but due to pre-holiday workload, I haven't been able to really get used to it.
I have earlier experience from an A6000 which wasn't all that positive despite the promises it held.

Now my first impressions: The product is mature. The feel of the camera is solid. You can get it set up exactly as you like which has its pluses and its minuses. The choices are overwhelming. I followed a tutorial from Wim Arys Photography which he has taken down since.

Coming from Canon 5D4, it takes a while to realize that I am looking at a screen, not the image through the lens.
The Tamron 28-75 is sharp and luminous but of course not the same overall quality (corner sharpness) as the 24-70 f/2.8.
The overall size of the combo is slightly smaller. Laws of physics set their limits. The buttons on Sony seem to be made with nimble Asian fingers in mind. There is a clear improvement in accessing the menus compared to the A6000. For the time being, I prefer Canon's user interface. This may change with time.
I could not get Samsung A8S to connect through wi-fi. With iPad and MacBook Air, I had no problems.

My first impression about usability is that I am on the steep part of the learning curve.
On the computer screen, the RAW pictures from the 5D4 and the A7III are indistinguishable except when it comes to getting details from shadows. This should not be news to anyone.

The Sigma adapter is still on its way so I do not know how my Canon lenses will behave.
In addition to the Tamron, I got a Zony 55mm f/1.8, the Rokinon 35mm f/2.8, and the 100mm f/2.8 macro.


Upgrade: The Sigma adapter arrived. The autofocus hits it right away (EF 16-35 F/4). This is totally another game compared to A6000 with Metabones that was like Bono of the U2: "Still cannot find what I'm looking for". I sold my 5D3 to a colleague of mine. The 5D4 is still there.
Now I have a free weekend. Will be posting pictures.

 

[YuengLinger]

I find it quite amusing to see so many folks trying to have a logical debate with an obtuse opponent whose motto seems to be "facts and statistics are a fictional concept". Is this some kind of New Year's resolution?

It's almost as if an end-of-year OCD curse has been placed upon several members here, even big-brained ones.

Canon has a New Year's Resolution: 75 MP, baby!

 

[AlanF]

It's almost as if an end-of-year OCD curse has been placed upon several members here, even big-brained ones.

Canon has a New Year's Resolution: 75 MP, baby!

Is that a selfie?

 

[YuengLinger]

Is that a selfie?

No. I haven't been on here 25 times in a week scolding the same posters over and over with the same tired replies, making the forum tiresome and depressing.

How sad at any time of year, but especially the last week.

My advice: Try dry prosecco instead of champagne for the big toast when the ball drops.

 

[wolfgang_guelcker]

A Dpreview Myth: "High ISO noise performance in Raw remains around one stop behind the Sony a7 III"

There are measured values from the meticulous Bill Claff, who even Dpreview uses from time to time as an expert.

And according to Bill Claff (PhotonsToPhotos.net) the "Low Light EV" of the EOS R is 0.13 EV lower than that of the Nikon Z 6 and 0.45 EV lower than that of the Sony a7 III.

PhotonsToPhotos

In the table at the bottom of the page, Bill Claff answers the question: at which ISO do we still have an acceptable Photographic Dynamic Range (PDR) of 6.5 EV? This is then the "Low Light ISO", which he converted into "Low Light EV" in EV. His numbers are

                       Low Light   Low Light
               Max PDR      ISO           EV
Canon EOS R     10.63      4675        10.55
Nikon Z 6       11.06      5132        10.68
Sony ILCE-7M3   11.60      6420        11.00

(Max PDR here are the values for ISO 100)

So: The EOS R's Low Light ISO is almost identical to that of the Nikon Z 6 and only half an EV worse than that of the Sony a7 III. And the curves show that at higher ISO values the dynamic range differences become even smaller.

Wolfgang

 

[Hector1970]

Removing the AA-filter or best of all have the option of switching it on or off and increase the mpx to 40 or 50. Improve the AF up to the new Nikon standard for the D850. I usually grab my 5DSR rather than my 5DIV because I get much better fine detail for bird plumage. The better IQ makes my photos better. The AA-filter and additional mpx would be a real gain, not a hype on specs. As mentioned in another thread, I have just come back from a long safari and have been comparing shots taken by me with a 5DIV + 400mm DO II + 2xTC and my wife with the 5DSR + 100-400mm II + 1.4xTC, and the 5DSR shots are sharper.

Interesting. I find the 5DIV much better for detail than the 5DSR.
I'm too not long back from Safari and the 5DIV performed much better. Much better resolved detail and sharpness.
I have a fairly early version of the 5DSR so maybe its not the best. It's fine at low ISO but at higher ISO's I don't like it at all.
I find the 5DIV very good at higher ISO's.
The 5DIV combined with the 600 F4 II is a brilliant combination on Safari.
I ended up using the 5DSR and 100-400 for the more close up shots. Light is generally good so low ISO's mainly on the 5DSR.
Early morning or towards sunset the 5DSR wasn't great as the ISO crept up.

 

[AlanF]

Maybe you "find the 5DIV much better for detail than the 5DSR." That is a very broad statement, however, and goes against my experience. Maybe you can find that under some conditions. Maybe it is the RAW converter you use. I find DxO PL really good for the 5DSR for suppressing noise and the lens sharpness works very well. There are people who measure the resolution of cameras and they find that that the 5DSR is much better for detail. Optyczne.pl, the parent site of lenstip.com, has relevant results:
https://www.optyczne.pl/312.4-Test_aparatu-Canon_EOS_5Ds__R_Rozdzielczość.html
https://www.optyczne.pl/351.4-Test_aparatu-Canon_EOS_5D_Mark_IV_Rozdzielczość.html
(use Chrome to translate automatically). Here are the relevant charts, with the 5DIV above and the 5DSR below.

 

[scyrene]

My advice: Try dry prosecco instead of champagne for the big toast when the ball drops.

That's crazy talk.

 

[neuroanatomist]

No. I haven't been on here 25 times in a week scolding the same posters over and over with the same tired replies, making the forum tiresome and depressing.

How sad at any time of year, but especially the last week.

My advice: Try dry prosecco instead of champagne for the big toast when the ball drops.

Yeah, repetitive posting of minor variations of the same tired Chicken Littie 'the sky us falling on my lens collection' topic seems to be more of a summertime activity for you. Sad, indeed.

My advice: try sparkling cider for the toast. As for us, a bottle of Bollinger La Grande Année 2007 is already chilled.

 

[YuengLinger]

Yeah, repetitive posting of minor variations of the same tired Chicken Littie 'the sky us falling on my lens collection' topic seems to be more of a summertime activity for you. Sad, indeed.

My advice: try sparkling cider for the toast. As for us, a bottle of Bollinger La Grande Année 2007 is already chilled.

I already addressed those concerns by listening to the opinions of members here. I thanked them for helping me understand and accept the transition from EF to mirrorless. As you say, that was back in the summer, yet you cling to it?

I think we are looking at a dozen posts I made as opposed to 300 or 400 of yours pounding the same theme over and over, "Canon is the leader. That is the fact. Your opinions don't count and aren't interesting." To the point of making thread after thread tiresome.

Oh, for the days when you gave such enlightened, concise technical support in a friendly way.

Enjoy your grape juice!