Preorder: Canon EOS RP camera and kits

[snappy604]

I always carry a studio flash with me in my canoe

Seriously though, sometimes you don't have the proper gear with you, and in the case of flashes, often you are not allowed to use one in the venue. And often you are confined to shooting from a set position and the lighting of the scene is something that you have no control over. I can't tell you how many times I had a flash sitting in my bag and was not allowed to use it

you should time your entire canoe trip to the golden hours and carry an entire studio you insensitive clod! ;-)... hehe kidding aside yeah its weird that people don't get there are many use case scenarios where you cannot control things and while not everything, a high DR helps.

oh and don't forget to put a reflector against the birds in flight it will help tremendously!

 

[Quarkcharmed]

I do care about the DR. It's now been confirmed it's the same sensor as in 6DII, so this little beautiful beast won't work for me as a secondary body for landscapes. It'll probably sell very well though, so indirectly I'm happy for Canon, maybe they'll have R&D budged for a camera with the specs that suit *me*.

 

[cellomaster27]

I'm surprised when photographers dismiss dynamic range as being unimportant in a camera.
Maybe they didn't experience earlier cameras.
Lee Filters, Kase, Hitech etc are all making money from balancing high contrast scenes.
It would be much easier if it could be done without filters and I'm sure it will be possible in the future with computational photography.

Good point. But do you know the reason for those expensive filters? You can't "make" a single image with a 30 second timer without a proper filter. If you want it at a certain ISO/aperture, you need filters. What if you're taking a photograph of a waterfall and you want that at 4 second timer at F8 ISO 100, it's in the middle of the day and above the waterfall, the sun is blazing the sky. You stack an ND filter (probably 10 stop), polarizer to take the glare off the water, then a hard edge ND grad to balance out the light. Don't tell me "usable" DR is going to make your image what the above would do. No way.
This is now going into the realm of just a black box, isn't it. I'm talking about pushing DR. When an image is shot, that is the time and scene according to the user of the camera to capture what's in front of them. If you say that it's all computational, then what is photography versus "made" images? I'll say it now, but it's basically impossible to create something with just the information that is received on the sensor. You'll need a fancy algorithm that is hopefully as creative and smart as the human eye/brain/senses that makes the image. I would hate to take photos without much thought, then come home to create what I think is beautiful. Most of the enjoyment of taking photos is being in the moment. Is it just me?

 

[slclick]

I do care about the DR. It's now been confirmed it's the same sensor as in 6DII, so this little beautiful beast won't work for me as a secondary body for landscapes. It'll probably sell very well though, so indirectly I'm happy for Canon, maybe they'll have R&D budged for a camera with the specs that suit *me*.

The 6D was known as a gem for landscapes due to it's very clean iso 100, was the Mk2 that different? This is the opposite of every owner of the 6D series I have met, heard of and read about.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

The 6D was known as a gem for landscapes due to it's very clean iso 100, was the Mk2 that different? This is the opposite of every owner of the 6D series I have met, heard of and read about.

My primary body is 5DIV (not for landscapes only btw), so from a secondary landscape camera I expect DR performance on par with 5DIV. I don't have 6DII, but I've seen the reviews, DR measurement charts and played with the sample raw files - working with them would be a bit disappointing for me.

Clean images at base ISO isn't something exceptional, latest Canon's crop sensor from 80D also has clean base ISO and better DR than 6DII.

 

[yungfat]

When the camera comes out with at hardly to argue $1,299, people may start to argue for the 1 ~ 2 stops of DR on ISO100.

My personal opinion, if DR is the only important things to you, just go to opposite camp as they offer much more better specs camera.

Many people here stick to Canon not because of the camera, but the Canon EOS system which only body, but lens, ergonomic, menu system, many of us like the colour too.

Yes, I agreed, everybody may have different mileage.

My 2 cents.

 

[jjesp]

Would be so nice to have a pancake lens for this system! A 35 or 40mm. Or a tiny 28mm f/2.8. Would be so great for street and travel. If it ever happens, I would consider to go back to Canon from Fuji.

 

[Don Haines]

why are we fixated (yet again) on DR?

This is a freaking fantastic camera for the price! Do you really expect to get a 1DX2 killer at this Price? The real story here is that the cost of entry into FF has been slashed and what does this mean to the 80D line?

 

[Hector1970]

Good point. But do you know the reason for those expensive filters? You can't "make" a single image with a 30 second timer without a proper filter. If you want it at a certain ISO/aperture, you need filters. What if you're taking a photograph of a waterfall and you want that at 4 second timer at F8 ISO 100, it's in the middle of the day and above the waterfall, the sun is blazing the sky. You stack an ND filter (probably 10 stop), polarizer to take the glare off the water, then a hard edge ND grad to balance out the light. Don't tell me "usable" DR is going to make your image what the above would do. No way.
This is now going into the realm of just a black box, isn't it. I'm talking about pushing DR. When an image is shot, that is the time and scene according to the user of the camera to capture what's in front of them. If you say that it's all computational, then what is photography versus "made" images? I'll say it now, but it's basically impossible to create something with just the information that is received on the sensor. You'll need a fancy algorithm that is hopefully as creative and smart as the human eye/brain/senses that makes the image. I would hate to take photos without much thought, then come home to create what I think is beautiful. Most of the enjoyment of taking photos is being in the moment. Is it just me?

You obviously haven't used a graduated filter on a high contrast day

 

[Quarkcharmed]

why are we fixated (yet again) on DR?

This is a freaking fantastic camera for the price! Do you really expect to get a 1DX2 killer at this Price? The real story here is that the cost of entry into FF has been slashed and what does this mean to the 80D line?

It is a fantastic camera in principle. I do care, however, about DR because it's important to me. I don't expect this camera to be anything. I just look at the price and specs and decide whether or not I want to buy it. Just me, not the whole world.

 

[Don Haines]

It is a fantastic camera in principle. I do care, however, about DR because it's important to me. I don't expect this camera to be anything. I just look at the price and specs and decide whether or not I want to buy it. Just me, not the whole world.

Same here.

There is no way I would buy this camera because for me, what it adds as capabilities to what I have, just is not worth it. That said, I think that this will be the big seller of the R line and will move lots of people from crop to FF..... just not for me!

I really want to see what happens with the rumoured high end R. My bet is that it will be two cameras, one speced like the 5D series, and a 1 like monster with an insane amount of computing power to handle AI autofocus and crazy frame rates.......

 

[slclick]

It will be awesome to many people,...none of us may or may not be any of those folks. I still hope and anticipate they sell a grundle of them. My landscape body? 5D3, I know, sucks on DR but hey, better than a pinhole with Tri-X.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Says who? Unproven alternative facts? Just let us speak for ourselfs and be done with it. Everybodys mileage may vary.

The proven facts are that Canon started falling behind their competitors in low ISO DR in 2009 and since then they’ve gained ILC market share (not a huge gain, but certainly not a loss). Perhaps you would interpret that to mean that DR is critical to most ILC buyers, and if so you can speak for yourself...after all, everyone has the right to make themselves look foolish if they choose.

 

[dtaylor]

The whole DR conversation makes me shake my head (again).

Assume an off-chip ADC sensor. (Could be Canon, older Sony/Nikon, or even the Nikon D5 which shows not all current sensors have on-chip ADCs in other brands.) Assume "good exposure" = ETTR without blowing highlights.

Portraits
* You have plenty of DR to brighten the subject in a portrait or wedding scenario with good exposure.
* You have enough DR to recover a mildly underexposed shot with dark tones in the scene.
* You will not have enough DR to recover a grossly underexposed (-3ev or more) shot with dark tones in the scene. Classic example would be a wedding shot with a black tux and a flash misfire.
* Modern Canon meters, flashes, and AE algorithms aren't going to leave you grossly underexposed unless there's an actual breakdown or you overheat your flash.
* A sensor with on-chip ADCs could recover more (not all) examples of grossly underexposed shots and still make an acceptable print.

Landscapes
* You have plenty of DR to deal with most landscape scenes with good exposure.
* Scenes with the sun in the frame unattenuated by haze or clouds and a very dark foreground will require blending two exposures.
* Some...not all...of those "sun in the frame" shots could be done with one exposure using a sensor with on-chip ADCs. However, even with the best of those sensors you are sacrificing shadow IQ if you push too hard. So if you love sun-in-the-frame landscapes and are serious about IQ for large print sizes you will still be using HDR techniques or GND filters, just not as often.

Interior Real Estate
* You are generally not going to have enough DR for midday shots on a sunny day, assuming no indoor strobes to assist. These shots will require blending 2 or more exposures.
* An on-chip ADC sensor will help the most here. But there are still going to be plenty of shots that require blending 2 or more exposures.
* Most pro real estate photographers use strobes and often shoot during magic hour both to manage scene DR and for the quality of light.

Out of these scenarios interior real estate is the one niche where I would really care about on-chip vs. off-chip ADCs and shadow recovery. If extended DR lets me avoid setting up strobes and/or blending exposures for just one room it's worth the time. These photos are harder to blend than landscapes because of hard window edges and 'light beams' through the room. For the same reason you can't use a GND filter. If I did professional interior real estate shots for a living I would have a 5D IV.

Now, here's a screenshot I used to post in DR debates on DPReview and other sites. This is from a 7D. The original 7D. With less DR than a 6D2. The file holds up to critical viewing at 16x24" print size. Is that as good as the best possible recovery from a 5D IV or D8x0? No. But it's still a lot of room to maneuver. Our choices are not between good and bad or good and terrible. They're between good and really good.

The settings equate to +2.5ev shadow recovery and -0.5ev highlight recovery. And I used L35 / C50 NR on the shadows.

 

[bluediablo]

To each his own.

Think I'm gonna bite on this one...

Time for a new office camera and let the little original M retire.
That little M unloved and cast out in a fire sale with the 22 went right to work for me, saving countless hours and thousands of dollars, he was always there tucked into the work bag when I needed him, clicking images of precious information. My daughter always wanted him and now he is hers and can be appreciated.
Damn fine little tool for my needs.

To each his own.

DR
First world problems, jeez

 

[cellomaster27]

You obviously haven't used a graduated filter on a high contrast day

since you didn't ask me whether I did or not but rather assumed, I'll just ask.. what's your point?

 

[dtaylor]

Time for a new office camera and let the little original M retire.
That little M unloved and cast out in a fire sale with the 22 went right to work for me, saving countless hours and thousands of dollars, he was always there tucked into the work bag when I needed him, clicking images of precious information. My daughter always wanted him and now he is hers and can be appreciated.
Damn fine little tool for my needs.

I bought the M during the fire sale on the reputation of the 22mm f/2. I honestly thought I would send it back because of all the negative reviews and comments online. It turned out to be one of the most fun and productive cameras I've owned. Both the 22mm f/2 and the 18-55 kit lens (which I bought later on eBay) have proven to be excellent. Even got a little tilt flash, bag, and spare cards/batteries for it. It's my serious imaging kit when I don't want to carry the weight of a serious imaging kit.

I feel like there was a "jump" in Canon color science somewhere between the 7D and the M. Nothing came out bad on that camera. I barely touched the RAWs in terms of color.

The reviewers couldn't have been more wrong about the M.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The reviewers couldn't have been more wrong about the M.

It had such poor DR.

 

[slclick]

In the film days various speeds and grains were debated hotly (not unlike DR and sensors) but mostly by those who didn't self develop. Those who did generally offered more advice to help their fellow photographer than bash.

How can we aspire to that level of craft in this age?

 

[dtaylor]

It had such poor DR.

Triggering intensifies.

Funny thing about that: DxO gave the M worse DR and low light scores than the 7D. I've put thousands of frames on both and the M has always done better on both counts. On high ISO I always felt iffy about 3200 on the 7D but 3200 comes out well on the M.

When you factor in how easy it is to ETTR on the M (full manual with exp preview and turn a dial) then 3200 comes out great.

But I should probably just trash it over the DxO scores and DR and...my God...it has a sensor that's literally over 6 years old! Someone help me order a Sony fast!