Canon to announce EOS-1D X equivalent EOS R system camera in 2021?

[digigal]

I have not had that much trouble getting good to excellent wildlife results from the R using lenses from the 100-400 L IS ii to the 400/2.8 L IS and the 500/4 L IS ii, often with extenders both of necessity and curiosity. But then I started photographing wildlife using thumb drive cameras with manual focus and film. And I got salable results. So I say it is a usable wildlife photography camera.

That said, would I like the guts of a Nikon 850 stuffed into an R body? Yes, I would. That would be my ultimate wildlife and landscape camera.

I have no trouble getting excellent wildlife portraits of posing animals and birds with the R (see the puffin above) and the files are beautiful and don't require the cleanup that those from the 7DMKII do. But when I refer to a wildlife camera I need one the can also capture the flying puffin, the attacking leopard, the penguin leaping in the water, the charging bear, and have the focus be in the right spot. The R is more than capable of capturing a leopard sitting in a tree, a penguin standing on the beach, and a bear clamming but these are all static wildlife shots and nice in their own way but I also to shoot a lot of animal behavior which involves more action and I've have not found the R suitable in any way for this. I would certainly be open to any suggestion you have about my settings that could improve this. The picture below was one of a series of rapid shots of a leopard attacking an impala using the 7DMKII. I always want to be prepared for something like this as well as the portraits.
Catherine

 

[bhf3737]

I have no trouble getting excellent wildlife portraits of posing animals and birds with the R (see the puffin above) and the files are beautiful and don't require the cleanup that those from the 7DMKII do. But when I refer to a wildlife camera I need one the can also capture the flying puffin, the attacking leopard, the penguin leaping in the water, the charging bear, and have the focus be in the right spot. The R is more than capable of capturing a leopard sitting in a tree, a penguin standing on the beach, and a bear clamming but these are all static wildlife shots and nice in their own way but I also to shoot a lot of animal behavior which involves more action and I've have not found the R suitable in any way for this. I would certainly be open to any suggestion you have about my settings that could improve this. The picture below was one of a series of rapid shots of a leopard attacking an impala using the 7DMKII. I always want to be prepared for something like this as well as the portraits.
Catherine

Yes, that is true that it is more challenging to capture dynamic wild-life with EOS-R but it is not impossible. I personally don't conclude that R is not suitable in any way for this. Perhaps a little patience and proper setup is the key. I am looking forward to an EOS-R which has higher frame rate, improved EVF, snappy AF for moving objects, better eye-AF, long RF lenses, etc. etc. etc. But I won't stand still (either silent or complain) till the time that a camera with those endless set of features is given to me. Life is too short and better not waste it waiting.
The followings have been taken with EOS-R.

 

[privatebydesign]

The first and third are easy shots that could be done effectively with manual focus, the middle shot is proving everybody else's point, it isn't critically sharp.

 

[Diltiazem]

it could very well be a hindrance.

as we've seen in the countless patents surrounding Canon's implementation of IBIS + IS integration there is a ton of considerations to it.

I don't think we've seen Canon work as hard as they are now on AF improvements via firmware as we are seeing with the RF series cameras. That also seems to have been used jointly with the EOS-M and EOS EF firmware bases as well, which the 90D and the M6 Mark II sport significantly advanced mirrorless based AF.

There's a logical but steady work flow from looking back to the 1DX Mark II forward on how Canon is progressing;

Canon is working on optimizing it's AF performance with both eyeAF and subject tracking and detection on DPAF sensors as we have seen with the EOS R/RP especially with this next firmware release. That's important - if not even hyper-critical to get done. Canon now can handle 14FPS *WITH* DPAF tracking. that's an insanely good performance increase. People should be looking at what the M6 Mark II can do and thinking. This is coming.

According to the noise levels recorded for the 90D there hasn't been a generational improvement over the current 24MP APS-C sensors, so I'm not sure we're seeing that much sensor advancement, it could very well be waiting for the 1DX Mark III to show Canon's latest and greatest sensor. Since this is what they did with the 1DX Mark II, it makes sense that the 1DX Mark III would kick things off. 1DX Mark II demonstrated the first full frame DPAF sensor with integrated slope ADC's running on a sensor produced by an entirely new sensor fab line (Canon moved from 500nm to 300nm).

For those that seem to always suggest that it will cost billions for canon to upgrade their fabs, they did it without anyone even knowing between the 1DX and the 1DX Mark II for their full frame sensors. They may even have been forced to do it again for the 1DX Mark III.

IMO, life would simpler for Canon if they could get their 180nm quad metal fabrication that they are currently using for APS-C sensors, working for full frame. But to be honest, Canon hasn't even discussed *how* they are making full frame sensors these days. Are they still doing three exposures to make the full surface area of the sensor, or have they reduced that down to 1 exposure (a stepper and other equipment have a maximum size, which is why APS-C and also APS-H came into being, because it was less than the maximum size that a stepper could expose).

This turned into a longer post than I originally wanted

Summary. there are alot of moving parts to where Canon needs to get to, and it's only been 1 year since the RF mount came into being.

Long reply, but I enjoyed it.
Totally agree with you about AF advancements and Canon's determination catch up or even go ahead. Canon lagged behind in data processing speed. This affected AF performance, video performance and resulted in viewfinder lag in its mirrorless. Now with M6 II it appears that Canon has made significant progress in this regard. There surely were non-hardware/algorithm issues as well, evident from the fact that Canon is able to fix some of the AF issues in R/RP with firmware updates alone.
Everybody will welcome improvement in sensor performance. But I feel that it is important, but not as important as AF (tracking, recognition etc) issues, VF lag, video performance issues and maybe IBIS. It will be interesting to see if 90D's PDAF is better than that of 80D (we know LV AF is much better).

 

[unfocused]

Yes, that is true that it is more challenging to capture dynamic wild-life with EOS-R but it is not impossible. I personally don't conclude that R is not suitable in any way for this. Perhaps a little patience and proper setup is the key. I am looking forward to an EOS-R which has higher frame rate, improved EVF, snappy AF for moving objects, better eye-AF, long RF lenses, etc. etc. etc. But I won't stand still (either silent or complain) till the time that a camera with those endless set of features is given to me. Life is too short and better not waste it waiting.
The followings have been taken with EOS-R.
View attachment 186457
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Don't let the jerks get you down. Some people are so insecure they have to criticize others to make themselves feel better. These are nice shots.

 

[AlanF]

Don't let the jerks get you down. Some people are so insecure they have to criticize others to make themselves feel better. These are nice shots.

Privatebydesign was not criticising a person, he was criticising photographs. It is you who are criticising a person and personalising the discussion by describing others in CR as jerks. You have every right to defend those images but not to abuse others.

 

[juststeve]

The first of the year I rented an R, adapter and 24-105 for two weeks. My main goal was to photograph bald eagles, mainly in flight. It did well, although one aspect of the testing was to see how well it worked in cold weather. I was working in the 20's. Later in the two weeks I had the camera, I was able to photograph at -11 or so in Yellowstone. In both cases the camera worked very well. I must admit I was hoping for -30 or lower to really give it a test.

Still, I was able to successfully photograph birds, large ones admittedly but fast, in flight, and mammals, both very quick, wolves and coyotes, and a bit slower, moose and bison, under more severe temperatures than likely in the Antarctic summer. Also, out of curiosity, I tried to photo mallards in flight at the local pond with my 100-400 ii and the 2x on the R. I was able to do so with some success. I was very surprised by this. Mallards move very fast, even more so than cheetahs and leopards. Since then autofocus firmware on the R and performance has been upgraded, with another scheduled in a few weeks.

Since renting the camera months ago, I purchased one earlier this summer to take with me to the Southwest desert. I wanted the flippy screen for low-to-ground landscape work. My 5DS does not have such a wonderment.

Not all of my photos with my purchased R camera were from the desert. Many were from the mountains of Montana, including a black bear, elk, mule deer does and fawns, prairie falcon, harrier, Harlan's red tail (both perched and in flight), mountain bluebird (snapshot feeding fledgling), and playing border collie pup. The camera functioned at least as well as I did and most likely better. If one overlooks the frame rate, the R was functioning every bit as well as my 7Dii, a bit better in some cases and a bit poorer in others. But always close. Close enough that if my 7Dii went down, I would probably purchase a M6 ii to replace it and get by with the adapters rather than go to the 90D for those times when I was pixelly disadvantaged.

The trick in getting by with the mirrorless is simply realizing that while one may be an old dog, one can still learn new tricks. The mirrorless cameras do require relearning years of developed habits and that ain't easy. But it can be rewarding. It can reward you with photographs you may not have able to get with your previous mirror slapping equipment. And learning new tricks is reward in itself.

I look forward to seeing where the RF line takes us. I also have a few too many miles on the old bones, so am a bit impatient. A souped up R is the camera I really want. If it is a 83 MP monster which can do 5 FPS and give a 1.4 to 1.6 crop which can do 7-10 FPS I would be happy with that. I would be happier with a 45-50 MP camera which can do 7-8 FPS and has AF as good as it looks like the RF can eventually do (cross points would be really, really nice). I would buy three of them immediately and be happy for the rest of my life. And I really would like to see one or the other in the next 6-8 months.

In the meantime, I will continue with my 5DS and 7Dii with my R and EOS M5 useful adjuncts and likely will keep them as backup well into the mirrorless future and for use in extreme conditions where the more battery dependent mirrorless cameras may struggle.

 

[Diltiazem]

The first and third are easy shots that could be done effectively with manual focus, the middle shot is proving everybody else's point, it isn't critically sharp.

I won't say EOS R is a camera suitable for all kinds of wildlife photography. It's main problem is the viewfinder lag when tracking subjects. A bird may be partly out of the frame when VF will show you the whole bird withing the frame (at the edge). When a bird is flying across the frame and it is reasonably close I usually lose the bird after 5-7 shots in a burst. Other than that it is not as bad as the internet wisdom makes it. It's focus acquisition and tracking (sticking with the subject) is as good as my 5DIV or 7DII with 100-400 II.
I am lucky to have a tern colony nearby. During feeding time they are not the easiest to capture in flight. They fly fast and erratically looking for the babies. I have taken hundreds of BIF with R. During the time I am able to keep the birds in the frame the keeper rate is as good as 7DII or 5DIV (I never used 1D series bodies).
Couple of examples, full scene first and then 100% crop.

 

[Otara]

I have no trouble getting excellent wildlife portraits of posing animals and birds with the R (see the puffin above) and the files are beautiful and don't require the cleanup that those from the 7DMKII do. But when I refer to a wildlife camera I need one the can also capture the flying puffin, the attacking leopard, the penguin leaping in the water, the charging bear, and have the focus be in the right spot.
Catherine

I think thats a fair point Catherine, the wake time with the R alone can be hard work for that kind of shooting. I think what you say above is pretty much the choice for people - image quality vs AF versatility at a certain price point. Which is your wildlife camera of choice will depend on those things to an extent, and thus reproduce the classic crop vs full frame debates of old which much of this seems to be a new variant in disguise. Amateur wierdoes like me who like doing video as well with their camera might like some aspects of the R too.

I think the last poster I read about 'new tricks' has a point too though. Being able to take a truly silent shot and not watch a creature disappear or simply jump in reaction as the shutter goes off has a fair bit of value for me with some subjects.

 

[unfocused]

Privatebydesign was not criticising a person, he was criticising photographs. It is you who are criticising a person and personalising the discussion by describing others in CR as jerks. You have every right to defend those images but not to abuse others.

Okay, let me correct that.

Don't let the rude behavior of some people get you down.

Satisfied?

 

[privatebydesign]

Privatebydesign was not criticising a person, he was criticising photographs. It is you who are criticising a person and personalising the discussion by describing others in CR as jerks. You have every right to defend those images but not to abuse others.

I'm so insensitive I didn't even realize it was directed at me, either that or I didn't think I was being a jerk in this instance, I agree I can be...

But it really is water off a ducks back, I truthfully didn't mean anything personal.

I won't say EOS R is a camera suitable for all kinds of wildlife photography. It's main problem is the viewfinder lag when tracking subjects. A bird may be partly out of the frame when VF will show you the whole bird withing the frame (at the edge). When a bird is flying across the frame and it is reasonably close I usually lose the bird after 5-7 shots in a burst. Other than that it is not as bad as the internet wisdom makes it. It's focus acquisition and tracking (sticking with the subject) is as good as my 5DIV or 7DII with 100-400 II.
I am lucky to have a tern colony nearby. During feeding time they are not the easiest to capture in flight. They fly fast and erratically looking for the babies. I have taken hundreds of BIF with R. During the time I am able to keep the birds in the frame the keeper rate is as good as 7DII or 5DIV (I never used 1D series bodies).
Couple of examples, full scene first and then 100% crop.
View attachment 186463View attachment 186465View attachment 186466View attachment 186467

Very impressive examples of AF performance.

Okay, let me correct that.

Don't let the rude behavior of some people get you down.

Satisfied?

Unfocused, I wasn't being rude, we are adults and we are discussing the merits of a camera, an image was shown as an example of a feature and I, quite correctly and honestly pointed out that it was not a good example of that feature, I didn't criticize the image as a whole or the photographer/poster. I was not pulling anybody down and whilst I freely admit I can be a jerk I don't believe I was in this instance and that was not my intention.

 

[bhf3737]

The first and third are easy shots that could be done effectively with manual focus, the middle shot is proving everybody else's point, it isn't critically sharp.

Thanks for constructive comment. My point was that these are the kind of sample picture that can be captured by the current EOS-R.
Is the current R perfect for typical shots like these? No.
Is the current R useless for typical shots like these? No (in my opinion).
Therefore, I don't conclude that R is not suitable in any way for this genre. Some may agree or disagree, and that is fine either way.
Of course, looking forward to getting a more capable version of R, when it becomes available.

 

[ozturert]

Too slow, Canon. Sony is releasing the A9ll very soon and it will likely raise the bar yet again.

Too slow for what? 1Dx III is coming, right?

 

[Ozarker]

Too slow for what? 1Dx III is coming, right?

Sony would have released sooner, but they are having a time getting the A9II's nails out to get it off it's cross. No weather sealing need this time around. It walks on water. When water does touch it, it turns to wine. Okay, wine cooler.

 

[AlanF]

Okay, let me correct that.

Don't let the rude behavior of some people get you down.

Satisfied?

That’s more like it. Keep it dignified and we will all be satisfied. Unfortunately, and this is not aimed at you, there is too much rudeness in current political debate and it is becoming the accepted norm. But, private wasn’t being rude and bhf3737 was not offended and took it in good spirit.

 

[AlanF]

Thanks for constructive comment. My point was that these are the kind of sample picture that can be captured by the current EOS-R.
Is the current R perfect for typical shots like these? No.
Is the current R useless for typical shots like these? No (in my opinion).
Therefore, I don't conclude that R is not suitable in any way for this genre. Some may agree or disagree, and that is fine either way.
Of course, looking forward to getting a more capable version of R, when it becomes available.

That’s quite correct. What usually distinguishes the different cameras and lenses for the different purposes is the keeper rate. If you have the right combination of body and lens, you will get a high number of keepers. If you don’t, you won’t necessarily get no keepers, but you get fewer.

 

[Viggo]

I keep shooting the same stuff I usually do, that’s how I can compare cameras/lenses. And it’s just a very tiny portion of shots where the 1dx2 was better, and so small that I couldn’t care less.

I’m so excited that there will be a R body that would actually be quite a bit better with AF than the R. Because already it’s seriously good for what I tend to shoot.
This shot is at pretty high speed and very close, he’s coming in diagonal and the sun was very low and behind. Think it was shot at f1.2 with the RF50. It’s just edited in camera and Lr on my tiny screen. But it looked okay. Perhaps not easy to see from this res, but his shoulder is softer than the eyes, so focus is spot on.

 

[Architect1776]

Yes, that is true that it is more challenging to capture dynamic wild-life with EOS-R but it is not impossible. I personally don't conclude that R is not suitable in any way for this. Perhaps a little patience and proper setup is the key. I am looking forward to an EOS-R which has higher frame rate, improved EVF, snappy AF for moving objects, better eye-AF, long RF lenses, etc. etc. etc. But I won't stand still (either silent or complain) till the time that a camera with those endless set of features is given to me. Life is too short and better not waste it waiting.
The followings have been taken with EOS-R.
View attachment 186457
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Looks like it does just fine.
Those complaining are just trying to find an excuse for lack of talent and skill. So they blame the camera. You have shown that with skill and talent it is the photographer not the camera. Thank you for the great examples and perhaps those with complaints will work on skill set rather than blame the camera for their failures.

 

[Otara]

I dont think thats fair, I think people are mostly worried that the EOS R is being oversold compared to other options that might have a better feature set/pricepoint compared to it. Hopefully the debate over the various features and shortfalls will result in a more informed decision for whatever choice people do make.

 

[rbielefeld]

Quite the reverse, if you are unable to take part in rational discussion and read views that are contrary to your own, it is for you to leave Canonrumors. It is discussion that leads to progress not putting on blinkers.

Exactly, and it is not that Canon is not making a camera with specs I want at a price point I want. It is that Canon has not put out a Pro mirrorless body, period. I will have no problem paying what Canon asks for their pro mirrorless when they offer it as long as it performs as a pro camera should. I am confident Canon will step up. I just hope it is not 3 years away.