A high-megapixel EOS R camera is still on the roadmap [CR2]

[jeffa4444]

Some observations from using the 5DS now for a number of years.

a. 50.1MP is simply not always necessary and I find even with portraits Im using mRaw to lower the file size yet still getting superbly detailed shots at A3 or above.
b. The biggest area of improvement needs to be at high ISO / low light
c. Video needs to vastly improve across the spectrum but at a minimum needs to be 4K full sensor
d. Also owning the EOS R the metering needs to cover a larger area (not large enough on the EOS R)
e. Retain the toggle switch (D pad & Touch Bar dont cut it)
f. In-body stabilisation in conjunction with lens stabilisation (camera shake is even more apparent at high MPs)

Whilst I use the 5DS as a portrait camera in good light its a great landscape camera with all the benefits of the 5 series ergonomics, metering etc. so as far as possible Canon should not stray from a winning formula but in an R series wrapper.

 

[Architect1776]

Continue reading...

100mp sensor should be no problem for Canon as they have shown a 250 mp sensor 5 years ago and a 120 mp sensor as well.
It would be nice to see a 100+ mp sensor on the 5DSR replacement.

 

[Deleted member 381342]

I think R5s makes more sense than R3. R3 implies it is somehow a better camera than the R5 just because it has more pixels. And if it is getting a bigger and better body to go with the prestige of being one under the R1, I would still argue that the R5 should get the same treatment, which leads us back to R5s.

 

[djkraq]

The EOS RS makes more since than EOS R3.

 

[ahsanford]

Honestly, lets not become one of those sony fan boys with the "my lens is bigger then your lens attitude. We're all grown ups here aren't we? Its honestly pointless for who's beating who with this. Thats kids kinda talk.

Not necessarily. High res seems to hold a high asking price very effectively. 5DS held price like a champ, the D850 the same, and we haven't seen the A7R4 price move at all since launch.

So high res may not be about being top dog -- it may just about tenting up the pricing in general to make a new R6 or again 5D4 at $2500 seem like a bargain.

- A

 

[FramerMCB]

They should call it the R-HMP_Monster

 

[cazza132]

But as for this thread's body, high res + IBIS multi shot would be a neat party trick.

Couple multi shot that with an auto focus stacking algo and we'll end up spending a terabyte to stitch together one 200 MP product/macro/landscape shot.

- A

Love the idea - esp when computational image analysis is becoming real time on phones these days. But, I would still love to have the individual raw files available and Canon's software supports the same types of analyses in post with selective edit. Eg. moving objects.

If Canon has/does go down the route of using BSI sensors (heaps of patents), there would be no/minimal loss in photon capture - the more resolution the better for me!

Perfect astro and landscape camera for sure! The more pixels with the same read noise packed on to a sensor - the higher the dynamic range. Also, moire would be diminished when using fast sharp lenses.

 

[ahsanford]

The EOS RS makes more since than EOS R3.

Not if R5 and R6 are in there, too, and everyone and their mother is expecting a gripped R1 to show up eventually.

I think Canon should go all numbers or go all letters (after the R, I mean). Mixing them up is confusing as hell.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

I think R5s makes more sense than R3. R3 implies it is somehow a better camera than the R5 just because it has more pixels. And if it is getting a bigger and better body to go with the prestige of being one under the R1, I would still argue that the R5 should get the same treatment, which leads us back to R5s.

I think this entirely depends on how Canon is positioning this camera.

If this is a high res specialty studio/tripod instrument -- all-in on resolution while video and high fps take a big back seat -- I see this more likely to be called an R5S. Canon will want folks paying nearly top dollar (for a non-gripped body) for the higher units product the R5 represents, and it's hard to do that if R3 happens ('Why is Canon's third best camera still $3500?'). In other words, I think you can argue for R5 price better with R5S just being a modest few hundred dollars higher in cost.

But if this is some science fiction kraken megabeast do-everything of a camera -- does everything the R5 can do and has the high resolution -- i could see some $4k R3 sort of product. But while I get that high res has demand and high fps has demand, I can't for the life of me fathom who is snapping away (idk) 80 MP stills at 10+ fps. That's nuts to me.

So, to me, 70-80 MP X 5-6 fps in a specialty high res stills rig called the R5S (at, say, $3800 vs. an R5 at $3500) makes more sense.

- A

 

[cazza132]

I am down with R5s or R3. The trolls will roll the RS naming - rat s..t :/

 

[Treyarnon]

I thought IBIS helps. every current 42mp+ camera has ibis. Do they have problems with camera shake?

5Ds does not have IBIS
I'm sure IBIS will be a usefull to have feature, but not having it is not exactly the end of the world.

 

[mppix]

Extrapolating the R5/R6 rumors, this one will shoot 16k 15fps video
Exciting times =D

 

[koenkooi]

100mp sensor should be no problem for Canon as they have shown a 250 mp sensor 5 years ago and a 120 mp sensor as well.
It would be nice to see a 100+ mp sensor on the 5DSR replacement.

The 5Ds sensor and the 120/250MP sensors Canon showed were all regular sensors, not DPAF sensors. But the 120MP APS-H sensor would correspond to a 200MP FF sensor, so 100MP of dual pixels isn't a stretch. But Canon hasn't shown anything with dual pixel that would exceed 80MP FF.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Honestly, lets not become one of those sony fan boys with the "my lens is bigger then your lens attitude. We're all grown ups here aren't we? Its honestly pointless for who's beating who with this. Thats kids kinda talk.

Seniors regressing back to child hood. It happens, you know.

Jack

 

[scyrene]

I think Canon should go all numbers or go all letters (after the R, I mean). Mixing them up is confusing as hell.

It may well be, but they've shown a penchant for using letters for a very long time. Moreover, they seem to like using -s for high res versions of existing lines: 1Ds (and successors) and 5Ds (I'm not sure what the -s was meant to stand for, if anything). No camera company seems bothered how confusing their nomenclature is (though Canon's is better than most in that regard).

I think this entirely depends on how Canon is positioning this camera.

Absolutely. I agree that there's more chance of a name change if it's more substantially different.

 

[Treyarnon]

If the R5 does sport 45MP, then this is already a high MP camera. Not cutting edge high by today's standards, but still very high. While an even higher MP camera will appeal to some, the laws of diminishing returns will come into play - both in terms of gain from those extra MPs and customers willing to pay for the privilege.

Will there really be sufficient market to warrant another high MP camera when the R5 already has 45MP?

If so, my guress is that we won't see the camera till 2022 (as a mid life stop gap till the R5 is replaced two years later)

 

[cazza132]

The 5Ds sensor and the 120/250MP sensors Canon showed were all regular sensors, not DPAF sensors. But the 120MP APS-H sensor would correspond to a 200MP FF sensor, so 100MP of dual pixels isn't a stretch. But Canon hasn't shown anything with dual pixel that would exceed 80MP FF.

Yes they have - 90D / M6 II Wrt pixel density, and with solid DR and noise performance!

 

[ahsanford]

If the R5 does sport 45MP, then this is already a high MP camera. Not cutting edge high by today's standards, but still very high. While an even higher MP camera will appeal to some, the laws of diminishing returns will come into play - both in terms of gain from those extra MPs and customers willing to pay for the privilege.

Tell that to cell phones, 32 MP crop sensors, etc. Just as Medium Format continues to jack up resolution to maintain relevance and hold a place in the market, all cameras below it will do the same.

To the market, it's not about diminishing returns -- it's all about appearing to offer more over time.

- A

 

[edoorn]

Honestly, lets not become one of those sony fan boys with the "my lens is bigger then your lens attitude. We're all grown ups here aren't we? Its honestly pointless for who's beating who with this. Thats kids kinda talk.

I don't give a rat's ass to be honest, but Canon will use this to claim the highest resolution 35mm camera crown. That's marketing kinda talk, in a grown up world. But as product proposition is good too; they try to stay away from copying Sony's ff mirrorless line and differentiate.

Actually I'm really glad the R5 will have 45mpix; that's a very sweet spot for me and I probably would not need this camera.

 

[docsmith]

I'm still curious how the naming will work. I thought the R5 / R6 products' names being confirmed meant that:

1DX --> R1
5DS --> R2, R3, R4 or R5S
5D --> R5

R --> (RIP)​

6D --> R6

RP --> (RIP)​

7D --> R7 (might never happen, but at least it has a name collared for future assignment)

But CR Guy has implied that R6 isn't corresponding to the 6D slot -- it is likely more of an A7S sort of competitor. So I'm as interested as anyone on the hierarchy/nomenclature/pricing/positioning for all these new FF bodies.

- A

While I agree in general, what I am curious about is how the purpose of each body is going to evolve. It used to be the 1D line was the best of everything including resolution. Eventually resolution was conceded to the 5D lineup. Since ~2012, we've had a common mantra that the 1D was sports/action/ultimate dependability, the 5D was "events" and the 6D was entry level as each lineup really seemed optimized for a specific group. This targeted approach has given Canon a base market for each camera and left those outside the targeted groups to pick the best camera for themselves.

But, what gets me about the R5 specs is that they pop so much as SPECs, but I really wonder who the target market is? Has event photographer really gravitated to 45 MP and 12 fps? Because I know several wedding photographers that grumbled about the 30 MP of the 5DIV. 45/12 seems more like a wildlife spec to me, but people seem to be preferring OVF for wildlife. Is the R6 now aimed at event photographers? Or is Canon abandoning the "targeted niche market" approach and we are about to get cameras differentiated by spec sheets.

This may be coming. I do not think it is a coincidence that the R5 and R6 are both rated at 12 fps. I think Canon is going to manufacture 1 shutter and put it into both cameras. Or that the 1DXIII and the R6 are both 20 MP (if the rumor holds). Good chance that is the same sensor, albeit, maybe with a few tweaks so they can call it different. The large megapixel body, good chance that is a scaled up M6II 32 MP sensor (~82 MP), and not some "all new" sensor.

So, if all this holds, I suspect we are about to see a bunch of Frankenstein'd camera bodies. This is where lowest manufacturing cost prevails. Has this always happened, sure (just think how many times we saw a 18 MP sensor), but I really wonder if each camera body is going to be less targeted for specific markets and more different components bolted together to create pricepoint/spec list differentiations..