Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[ahsanford]

I'd say close to the 5D3 when it came out, but that's only a wild guess.

$3499 ftw. My guess as well.

- A

 

[londonxt]

Amazing the level of responses on this compared the relatively muted response to the 1DX III.
I'm delighted Canon is bringing out such a camera but where are they going from here.

The Elephant in the room for every electronic item is battery power! The tech is severely lagging.

 

[ahsanford]

Perhaps the 1DX3 is targeted at professionals who don't spend that much time on fora like this...

Fair number of 1-series owners posting here in the forum. They may not be eagerly participating in this thread, however.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

The current EOS R was dead on arrival!

It simply does not compare to the others in its price range. Like the A7III. The Sony came with IBIS, dual slots, uncropped 4k and extensive lense range.

That might be the wrong take for that product, IMHO. The R was never aimed at the competition.

It was aimed at we, The EF Faithful.

EOS R was Canon saying:

• Here is our first ever FF mirrorless -- get first access to skull splitting next gen glass.
• It works perfectly with all your EF lenses, you so don't have to migrate -- just experiment vs. your SLR side by side or carry it as a second body
• It has a 5D4 sensor and you don't have to pay a 5D4 price for it.
• 5D4 owners, would you like the same sensor with the tilty-flippy we didn't give to you with your SLR?

And I think a lot of folks were too eager to wait for a next version and jumped in early. Canon accomplished what they needed to: build energy and enthusiasm around the platform and get folks thinking about the future. That's it.

- A

 

[Ian_of_glos]

If Canon wanted people to have dslr and r, then it doesn't do R with a new bayonet. Who wants to carry both sets of lenses?

As a long term 5D mark3/mark 4 user I think I am probably the type of customer that Canon had in mind when developing the EOS R5. If the final specifications are anything like what was in the development announcement then I will definitely be buying one, not as a replacement for my 5D mark 4 but to use alongside it. At first I will continue to use my 5D mark 4 for most of my work, and only replace my 24-105 F4L and 50mm F1.2L EF lenses with the RF equivalents. So for a while at least I will be using both types of lens, depending what type of work I am planning to do.
There is a good chance that I will keep my 5D mark 4 and most of my EF lenses for many years and only replace them if there is a compelling reason to do so.

 

[amorse]

That might be the wrong take for that product, IMHO. The R was never aimed at the competition.

It was aimed at we, The EF Faithful.

EOS R was Canon saying:

• Here is our first ever FF mirrorless -- get first access to skull splitting next gen glass.
• It works perfectly with all your EF lenses, you so don't have to migrate -- just experiment vs. your SLR side by side or carry it as a second body
• It has a 5D4 sensor and you don't have to pay a 5D4 price for it.
• 5D4 owners, would you like the same sensor with the tilty-flippy we didn't give to you with your SLR?

And I think a lot of folks were too eager to wait for a next version and jumped in early. Canon accomplished what they needed to: build energy and enthusiasm around the platform and get folks thinking about the future. That's it.

- A

Absolutely agreed - they presented the R as a complement to the rest of the system, not an encouragement to drop everything and move over. "You don't switch to the EOS R system; it seamlessly integrates with your current EOS equipment."

It's been a while since I saw some of the R announcement (the link above) and they openly make those points. They're ok not being first, they're not making the rest of the system irrelevant, they're just creating some new opportunities for glass and trying to make the mirrorless branch of digital photography a somewhat different and complementary segment to the rest of it.

 

[ahsanford]

As a long term 5D mark3/mark 4 user I think I am probably the type of customer that Canon had in mind when developing the EOS R5. If the final specifications are anything like what was in the development announcement then I will definitely be buying one, not as a replacement for my 5D mark 4 but to use alongside it.

+1 on side by side use with EF with a similar usage/'design language', it's a natural next step for RF. I honestly thought they'd push that harder with the EOS R

Goals of the R5 at Canon (if I had to guess, in no particular order):

• We have a plan, and that plan is ambitious: the first (?) of many FF price points / market segments will be nailed down and more are coming.
• Market perception: shot across the bow to Sony. Honeymoon's over. Don't mind us grown-ups measuring the drapes as we execute our plan to win the market.
• Photographer perception: deliver the first legitimately rock solid professional FF mirrorless instrument and show everyone what mirrorless hasn't had so far -- confidence, efficiency and reliability.*
• Units: Try to get every wedding photog on earth to make this the second camera they carry, if not the first

* = the hardest sell. Sony did very well to muddle 'what it means to be pro'. I don't want to start a philosophical conversation about what a pro 'is'. But Sony clearly demonstrated that some (heretofore stuffier) perspectives on what professional gear needs to look/feel/use like were not entirely true, and that 'high end enthusiast' gear could damn well do professional work.

Canon needs to somewhat dissuade Sony folks of that notion with the R5. Are you sure you don't need a bullet-proof professional instrument? Because here's what one looks like. Specs are great, but gear that never lets you down is greater.

But again, that will be the hardest needle to move. Perceptions are tough that way.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Absolutely agreed - they presented the R as a complement to the rest of the system, not an encouragement to drop everything and move over. "You don't switch to the EOS R system; it seamlessly integrates with your current EOS equipment."

That's the hitch with EOS R vs. (hopefully) R5: glass was seamless, but interface / handling / usage was not.

I think 5-series-ish controls and creature comforts (thumbwheel, I'm looking at you) will do R5 a world of good.

...as will a 5D5 that isn't just trying to be a 5D4 iteration. The 5D5 should have these R5 internals, sure, but I hope they also (very intelligently / delicately) take a step towards whatever menus, usage the R5 has. The R5 can't be seamless with the 5D5 all by itself or it will look/feel just like a 5D. The 5D5 needs to carefully tiptoe towards mirrorless's interface to make the 'SLR on one shoulder / mirrorless on the other and it's seamless to switch' vision come true.

- A

 

[Viggo]

The Elephant in the room for every electronic item is battery power! The tech is severely lagging.

Considering that the 1dx3 has doubled it’s capacity from the 1dx2 I say Canon has made some pretty amazing progress in battery life department. And that is NO DOUBT because mirrorless needs a serious bump in battery life.

 

[davo]

8K query. So the flagship 1Dx doesn't do i8K at 20 mp but the R5 can at 45 mp. Is it harder to generate 8K at lower megapixels or easier?

 

[Proscribo]

8K query. So the flagship 1Dx doesn't do i8K at 20 mp but the R5 can at 45 mp. Is it harder to generate 8K at lower megapixels or easier?

8K = 33mp ~ 45mp on a 3:2 sensor. So it is slightly challenging to do 8K on a 20mp sensor.

 

[ahsanford]

The Elephant in the room for every electronic item is battery power! The tech is severely lagging.

The world cannot hear your over the singing angels they claim to hear while shooting 20 fps FF cameras.

Battery power matters, I don't deny. But we're at the point that people are frothing at the mouth for what mirrorless can do in spectacular disproportion to their concern over batteries. People are just kind of dealing with the battery by packing an extra one or two, or they are pleasantly surprised with how long these mirrorless cameras actually perform in the field (with their preferred use-case, workflow, etc.) vs. estimates and specs.

- A

 

[sanj]

Can anyone guess what the crop factor will be on video at 4k? I am hoping for no crop. If on 8k it is 1.6x, at 6k 1.2x, then perhaps at 4k no crop? I am not at all knowledgeable about this... So any guesses?

 

[Ozarker]

The current EOS R was dead on arrival!

It simply does not compare to the others in its price range. Like the A7III. The Sony came with IBIS, dual slots, uncropped 4k and extensive lense range.

But it’s all relative, if the EOS R were $1300-$1400, then I’d say it’s priced correctly. To compete with higher end APS-C like the X-T3.

The people that bought it at +$2000 I weep for them. They were definitely drinking the Canon koolaid.

Hopefully with the EOS R6 we see them compete in that $2000 range better. And EOS R drops down in the $1400 range with the RP in the $1000 range.

I don’t feel bad at all for paying what I paid. No weeping necessary.

 

[koenkooi]

Can anyone guess what the crop factor will be on video at 4k? I am hoping for no crop. If on 8k it is 1.6x, at 6k 1.2x, then perhaps at 4k no crop? I am not at all knowledgeable about this... So any guesses?

A 1.6x crop on 8k would make it an 80+MPix sensor.

 

[jayphotoworks]

I've been very surprised of this recent announcement. It's like Canon has suddenly decided to hell with product segmentation. A lot of this functionality will surpass its flagships capabilities in the stills and cinema space, not necessarily entirely as a whole, but in meaningful bit and pieces here and there. If the final product is as announced, it will surpass Panasonic's efforts and most of Sony's current models. I'm not even certain the A7SIII will be safe. But competition always leads to better products for the consumers. If Canon has taken a different path and continues to do so, it will be like the "good ol" days when each model had all of this tech leapfrogging each other (Canon vs Nikon days)

With that being said, I'm in no rush to jump ship from Sony yet and I might still pick up the upcoming A7SIII, if only because I now have a stable of Sony lenses and while some of those are not exactly burgeoning in quality like the newer RF lenses, some of them are great for lightweight cinema work and I have a lot of choices across different manufacturers. IMO, The RF mount needs more time to get there.

On a side note, I pre-ordered an S20 Ultra which should be here by the first week of March. Literally for the first time ever, given Samsung's market share, there will be a ton of people with 8K cameras in their pockets by March.. I guess it can be a C cam to their Canon R5s..

 

[davidhfe]

Can anyone guess what the crop factor will be on video at 4k? I am hoping for no crop. If on 8k it is 1.6x, at 6k 1.2x, then perhaps at 4k no crop? I am not at all knowledgeable about this... So any guesses?

Sorry to pick on you a bit here, but I am blown away by how effective the youtube and camera site contingent has been at drilling in "anything canon offers for video will be a crop!" in to people's minds. We're at the point where people are talking about crop factors that are physically impossible. There are a lot of folks who don't understand the technical side of things (which is fine!) who have been done a real disservice by photos sites/etc.

To actually answer your question, my guess would be:
8k30 - Full width from a 45 mp sensor. You cannot "crop in" on a 45 mp sensor and get an 8k image*
4k30 - Full width, oversampled from 8k
4k60 - Either line skipping, pixel binning or (most likely) a 1.5x crop (about super 35, will work great with EFS lenses an adaptor!)
4k120 - 2.0 crop

What modes have what limits beyond that is anyone's guess:
- I am not expecting anything RAW
- Likely 10bit 4:2:2 C-Log with 2 H.265 compression options for most modes
- I expect DPAF to work in 8/4K 30fps. Maybe 60fps. Unlikely 120fps.

*there are a lot of shenanigans that COULD happen here. In camera up-scaling from a 6K image, etc. Canon would never EVER live it down, though. It would be a serious mistake to put out a development announcement with limited details, and have one of those details be BS.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Based on some comments, one would thing that all the mirrorless negatives have evaporated, almost overnight. How is this possible? I think we're simply hearing enthusiasm for something many have not really fully tried/evaluated and in due course, they may be overjoyed or still somewhat frustrated. I'm sure I'll still have frustrations.

Jack

 

[Michael Clark]

---

I can already tell you what the resolution will be for STILLS PHOTOS when Canon says the R5 can capture 8K video!

Unfortunately they don't tell you whether the video capture is DCI 8K (8192 by 4320 pixels) or UHDTV capture (7680 by 4320 pixels)

1) if it's DCI 8K then the STILL PHOTO CMOS sensor resolution WILL BE 8192x5455 or 44,687,360 total pixels (44.68 megapixels)

2) if it's UHDTV 8K then the STILL PHOTO CMOS sensor resolution WILL BE 7680x5120 or 39,321,600 total pixels (39.32 megapixels)

This means the camera CAN BE 44.68 megapixels (the most likely resolution!) OR it can be 39.32 megapixels.

This is because Canon ALWAYS does a 3:2 aspect ratio for it's still photo camera sensors AND since I HAPPEN TO KNOW A LOT OF MATH and that DCI 8K is ALWAYS 8192 by 4320, you can simply use 8192 as the starting base for calculating the VERTICAL RESOLUTION which SHOULD BE 8192x5455 pixels.

In many cases, it might be MORE because Canon has to normally ADD extra pixels outside of the sensing area for sensor calibration purposes, so it MIGHT be slightly more when it gets introduced. (i.e. but no more than 120 extra pixels on the horizontal and vertical)


---

You also need to account for the desire for both dimensions in the 3:2 still images to be divisible by 8 for efficient JPEG compression.

 

[davidhfe]

Based on some comments, one would thing that all the mirrorless negatives have evaporated, almost overnight. How is this possible? I think we're simply hearing enthusiasm for something many have not really fully tried/evaluated and in due course, they may be overjoyed or still somewhat frustrated. I'm sure I'll still have frustrations.

Jack

I think you're seeing two things:
- If you're not interested in mirrorless you're probably not hanging out in this thread.
- There are a lot of folks who have said things like "all things being equal I'd rather have an OVF" But this camera isn't "equal" a 5D5 isn't going to have 12fps mechanical with a mirror actuating up and down—that's probably sticking to the 1 series.