Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

[Quarkcharmed]

Video noob question. When I see a listed spec like say 4k @ 30 fps no crop, I often see wishes that they also have 24 fps. Isn't 24 fps easier to do than 30fps? Why wouldn't the slower fps always be an included option if its something so in demand?

For some reason, Canon didn't include 24p in the RP and 90D (but there was 30p), which caused a lot of stirring and boiling, they fixed it in subsequent firmware updates. That's one of the reasons (but not the only one) for the 'Canon's cripple hammer' term.

 

[joestopper]

Video noob question. When I see a listed spec like say 4k @ 30 fps no crop, I often see wishes that they also have 24 fps. Isn't 24 fps easier to do than 30fps? Why wouldn't the slower fps always be an included option if its something so in demand?

"Why wouldn't the slower fps always be an included option if its something so in demand?"

-> because of copyright/royalty issues.

 

[Ozarker]

Isn't it funny how internet begging, a few years back something to be ashamed of is now commonplace ala online dating?

We are devolving and fast!

Think of all the trees being saved. No cardboard signs. BTW: Gotta love this guy I snapped a photo of in SoCal back in 2008.

 

[slclick]

For some reason, Canon didn't include 24p in the RP and 90D (but there was 30p), which caused a lot of stirring and boiling, they fixed it in subsequent firmware updates. That's one of the reasons (but not the only one) for the 'Canon's cripple hammer' term.

I think it started when the 50D to 60D was pretty much a step backwards and folks started looking a bit too hard at the differentiation between lines. It's an idiotic term. If I had a nickel for every person who expected a 1D for a XXD price, I could afford a Leica Monochrom.

 

[BillB]

More buttons and a back wheel are nice. Still missing a few buttons though! What is with Canon and less buttons on mirrorless?

Two things may be going on. One is that there is less real estate on the mirrorless for buttons. The other is that Canon's touchscreen controls on the rear LCD offer an alternative to buttons.

 

[Richard CR]

I’m very curious how they’ll do this too as the A9 does it at 24mp so if the Canon could potentially do this at40mp it would be something insane.

I agree that both the Nikon and Sony fanboys will try their best to criticize it, but I’m really hoping Canon do something revolutionary with this body (which it seems like they will) and put all of them in their place.

I think the processors will play a huge part in what’s possible too. Doesn’t the1DX3 have one Digic X and another Digic 8? If they use a similar design but had two Digic X instead with one powering the AF only and the other doing the rest maybe it could be feasible?

DIGIC X does all the "mirrorless" stuff. the DIGIC 8 handles ITR/AF/AE for the OVF/PDAF sensor arrangement. I think that's right. I'm too lazy too look it up this morning.

DIGIC X IMO by what the whitepaper states, was designed for mirrorless.

 

[Richard CR]

More buttons and a back wheel are nice. Still missing a few buttons though! What is with Canon and less buttons on mirrorless?

where would you put them?



as it was, they got rid of the bar, and added in joystick there. added one more button (rate) to the left side.
Moved AF-ON to be near joystick (sounds reasonable).
added two more buttons above the wheel.

it's going to be pretty cramped as it is.


a fully articulating screen comes at a price - the price is buttons. you simply can't put as many buttons on the camera with a fully articulating screen because you are missing now to the left of the screen, and to the bottom for where buttons could go.

IMO, the power switch is still weird.

 

[David_E]

IMO, the power switch is still weird.

In the photo it appears identical to the power switch on my EOS RP. The RP switch feels and operates just fine, even though I’m quite accustomed to the “traditional” switch as found on my 5D IV and my 6D II.

 

[Ozarker]

We are a spoiled bunch when we can sit around and complain about the tiniest of things.

 

[navastronia]

In the photo it appears identical to the power switch on my EOS RP. The RP switch feels and operates just fine, even though I’m quite accustomed to the “traditional” switch as found on my 5D IV and my 6D II.

I quite like the RP's switch.

On the other hand, while I don't own a 7D anymore, that camera has the worst on/off and mode knobs of any of them. I was always accidentally switching it off and getting into modes I didn't want

 

[Quackator]

One is that there is less real estate on the mirrorless for buttons.

A result of a barrage of marketing, hardwiring the equation
that mirrorless=small into people's brains.

There is no reason why a DLSM *must* be small.
In my eyes there would be good reason for it to
be bigger, namely the size of my fingers.

The R5 seems a step in the right direction, but I'd love
it to be the size and layout of the 5D MkIV.

 

[vishaltpt]

where would you put them?

View attachment 188736

as it was, they got rid of the bar, and added in joystick there. added one more button (rate) to the left side.
Moved AF-ON to be near joystick (sounds reasonable).
added two more buttons above the wheel.

it's going to be pretty cramped as it is.
View attachment 188737

a fully articulating screen comes at a price - the price is buttons. you simply can't put as many buttons on the camera with a fully articulating screen because you are missing now to the left of the screen, and to the bottom for where buttons could go.

IMO, the power switch is still weird.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Canon engineers ( we don't know they must have had their reasons but....) could have shifted the ON/OFF button to just below the MODE dial as is now on the 5D4, which is more convenient to switch between modes at a turn of a button. Won’t you agree; that way more Real Estate would have been made available on the TOP PANEL on either side of the EVF for ISO , Drive buttons etc..



It seems that the canon engineers have given too much importance to the ON/OFF button when in actuality you use that button only once when you start & just forget about it for the next of the shoot.


If Canon wanted to be REVOLUTIONARY they could have implemented a dedicated AUDIO DIAL (in place of ON/OFF switch) like you see in Camcorders to adjust your AUDIO LEVELS, that would have been a game changer button)




Don't forget that people buy the 5D4 for video as much as they buy for stills.The world is shifting more towards video, so more the video features like Audio DIAL etc. the better the R5 will sell.




Also,

The implementation of the ON/OFF & also the MODE button is too bad on the EOS R. (the same looks to have been copied for the R5) . To change video modes on EOS R you have to press the INFO button & then keep rotating the mode dial & keep looking into the top LCD till your desired MODE pops in…way too cumbersome & non-intuitive than the 5D4 which has a nice flip switch to move between photo/video.





Also, the INSTANT VIDEO (red record button) on top panel is actually a joke because… say you are taking a photo in Av mode at 1/2000 sec at f2 & instantaneously you want to record video of that…so who the hell in the world would start recording the video instantaneously at 1/2000 of a sec??? One will go to manual video mode & change shutter speed to 1/50 or 1/60 as the case maybe & then to compensate reduce the Aperture, ISO. So it’s wrong to call this RED BUTTON as INSTANT Video!! Because it is NOT.


So Small things which set Canon apart are being done away with…


The button ergonomics is moving more in the direction of SONY which many are not fan of. PROs would prefer a little bigger body that gives more battery Juice than a couple of millimeter smaller body. Looks like Canon wanted to deliver a smaller body (aka SONY) & so they compromised on functionality.



Less buttons / ports is not always a good thing like in the MACBOOK PROs when they started reducing the number of the USB ports etc. then one needed to buy Dongles which was more hassle than convenience… even the lack of dedicated 3.5mm audio jack on modern phones is such a pain. Generally More buttons/ports is always better on the PRO body.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

A result of a barrage of marketing, hardwiring the equation
that mirrorless=small into people's brains.

There is no reason why a DLSM *must* be small.
In my eyes there would be good reason for it to
be bigger, namely the size of my fingers.

The R5 seems a step in the right direction, but I'd love
it to be the size and layout of the 5D MkIV.

Adding a battery grip should help with the size... I agree that a 5d MkIV is just about right... just glad it's not as tiny as the Sony offerings

 

[SecureGSM]

Yeah ok, I was reaching there.. LOL. But Sigma makes a 1.8 version for Sony at around $1,400 so a Canon non-L RF f/1.8 in this focal length may be good enough IF sharp wide open and the pricing around $1,700.

F1.8, perhaps. $3000-ish... not a 135/1.4 that's easily $4,500 in Canon land.

 

[SecureGSM]

Actually they COULD make affordable f/1.4 135mm by using High Refractive Index Acrylic lenses with a sputtered and/or thin film vapour deposition sapphire coating on the front and rear parts of the element --- In fact, a company like SIGMA could EASILY ADAPT their ENTIRE Art Series:

14 mm f/1.4
16 mm f/1.4
20 mm f/1.4
24 mm f/1.4
28 mm f/1.4
30 mm f/1.4
35 mm f/1.4
40 mm f/1.4
50 mm f/1.4
85 mm f/1.4
105 mm f/1.4
135 mm f/1.8

and the

150-600mm F/5-6.3 Sports Zoom

over to Acrylic with a Sapphire coating and the Speeds would go up to f1.2 or even f/1.0 for the primes and the sports zoom would be f/2.8-f4.0 !!!

Sigma could do it and make the lenses for CHEAPER than the current Art Series lenses!

Even though I have access to high-end corporate video/still lenses and camera inventory, I would PERSONALLY buy those sapphire-coated high-refractive-index Acrylic Sigma Art Series lenses in an instant! Change over from Glass elements to Acrylic elements and those new lenses would be REALLY FAST !!!!

--

Good thinking, Harry..
Acrylic has excellent resistance to weathering. UV light does very little damage to Acrylic over time and so Acrylic is often a good choice for outdoor applications. So, your lens likely will last for at least few years in outdoor use before it will develop a lemon yellow tint to it dispose of your lens at the time..

Why stop at Sapphire coating though? Be generous and go Diamond coating instead!

 

[SecureGSM]

A price of $4,000 for the R5 would betray the R5 moniker that strongly indicates it's intended to be the RF equivalent of the 5D series DSLRs. Those have consistently been in the $3,299-$3,499 range, with the exception of the 5DS, which was a niche specialization that shared the same body but was aimed at a different market segment.

While features are certainly related to price, the floor and ceiling of price ranges are primarily determined by product positioning relative to its intended market. It's possible that Canon is rearranging its market segmentation and product positioning, but highly unlikely with the R5 moniker. I see that as a clear message to 5D shooters that a mirrorless body is in the works for them.

If anything, the global contraction in ILC camera sales, coupled with Canon's statement that it will aggressively win marketshare in the full-frame mirrorless space would point to:

• More features at historically consistent prices for a given segment, or
• Lower prices for a modest (generationally appropriate) boost in features, or
• A combination of both.

While I think a launch price of $3,499 for this feature-packed R5 seems most likely to me, I would not be surprised one bit if Canon launched the R5 at $3,299.
In a contracting market, raising prices doesn't win you marketshare, and saying, "But it has a whole slew of redical features to support the higher price!" doesn't mean the target market has (or will spend) the money to buy it.

why sell at $3,299.00 when this puppy will be flying of the shelves at $3,750.00. this is an industry leading product.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

why sell at $3,299.00 when this puppy will be flying of the shelves at $3,750.00. this is an industry leading product.

No one likes to pay more than they have to, but I agree

 

[Quackator]

Adding a battery grip should help with the size... I agree that a 5d MkIV is just about right... just glad it's not as tiny as the Sony offerings

The battery grip doesn't give you more real estate on the body itself.
A lot of my work is done with the camera in one hand, and a boomstick
with a flash paddle in the other. For a number of high or low perspectives,
I need room for the thumb to wander and still hold the camera firmly
without accidentally pressing a button. The 5D4 was exemplary for a
perfect ergonomic solution in this regard.

 

[SecureGSM]

No one likes to pay more than they have to, but I agree

why sell at $3,2999 is a very different question to why not buy at $3,299 if I would have bought at $3,750 anyway?

 

[Joules]

Is Digic X it's own thing or a new line? I've read contrary remarks about it.

What do you mean by this? What would be the difference?

DIGIC X does all the "mirrorless" stuff. the DIGIC 8 handles ITR/AF/AE for the OVF/PDAF sensor arrangement. I think that's right. I'm too lazy too look it up this morning.

Here's the quote from the white paper that you are probably referring to, listing the new features of the Digic X:

"Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual Pixel CMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF trackingc apabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting)."