Canon announces development of the EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera

tron

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Two things may be going on. One is that there is less real estate on the mirrorless for buttons. The other is that Canon's touchscreen controls on the rear LCD offer an alternative to buttons.
In my EOS R there is no fast way to change fps. Either multifunction button which behaves like a menu so not immediate or using the touch screen after activating the buttons. Not cool! Not fast. YMMV.
 
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koenkooi

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In my EOS R there is no fast way to change fps. Either multifunction button which behaves like a menu so not immediate or using the touch screen after activating the buttons. Not cool! Not fast. YMMV.
It’s great on the M6II: press the ’dual func’ button inside the top rear wheel, select drive mode with top front wheel. You can customize the options present, I have ISO one rear click left of drive mode and EV comp one click right.
 
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why sell at $3,2999 is a very different question to why not buy at $3,299 if I would have bought at $3,750 anyway? :)

I think there is a psychological barrier every $500 or so. That's why there is always the "99" at the end of prices because people look at the first numbers only and 3499 looks much cheaper than 3500.

I think the pricing for people who will buy this camera regardless doesn't matter much. But for people sitting on the fence of whether they really need this camera or will stick with what they have/buy the lesser model, price has a huge impact. I think there are more people in the second category than the first, and if Canons intent with this camera is to capture market share, I think the price will likely be closer to 3299 than 3799.

But they have marketing people that are far better in tune with the pricing process than any of us here. Sadly all we can do is wait although the conjecture is really fun... :)
 
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Ozarker

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Do you mean that Canon is no longer doomed, but crippled?
This would open a new perspective !
PS: t'was a good movie...
I contend that Canon id neither crippled or doomed, however, some commentators are obviously hammered. ;)
 
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Sorry, I don't really understand the technical side of it, but I don't understand how those two things would be mutually exclusive.

Writing 8k video (8192 x 4320 px = 35 MP) at 30fps would be
no fun if video terminated after a second or so, Sony overheat style.

30fps x 35 MP is 1050 MP/sec.

20fps x 45 MP is 900 MP/sec

There is no reason to think that the R5 will be able to handle
1050 MP/sec throughput sustained for some time, but not
900 MP/sec.
 
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tron

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It’s great on the M6II: press the ’dual func’ button inside the top rear wheel, select drive mode with top front wheel. You can customize the options present, I have ISO one rear click left of drive mode and EV comp one click right.
M6II seems a great camera. If I had an M system I would definitely upgrade to it.
 
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tron

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Writing 8k video (8192 x 4320 px = 35 MP) at 30fps would be
no fun if video terminated after a second or so, Sony overheat style.

30fps x 35 MP is 1050 MP/sec.

20fps x 45 MP is 900 MP/sec

There is no reason to think that the R5 will be able to handle
1050 MP/sec throughput sustained for some time, but not
900 MP/sec.
I am NO video expert but maybe the video pixels need less bits than 14 so the total video transfer rate is comparable with the photo one and not higher than that.
 
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vjlex

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Writing 8k video (8192 x 4320 px = 35 MP) at 30fps would be
no fun if video terminated after a second or so, Sony overheat style.

30fps x 35 MP is 1050 MP/sec.

20fps x 45 MP is 900 MP/sec

There is no reason to think that the R5 will be able to handle
1050 MP/sec throughput sustained for some time, but not
900 MP/sec.

MP (megapixels?) isn't an actual unit of data though, only resolution, no? Whatever video codec they use for the 8K video has nothing to do with the CR3 RAW still format, so how can we speculate what the relative file sizes would be? Am I off?
 
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MP (megapixels?) isn't an actual unit of data though, only resolution, no? Whatever video codec they use for the 8K video has nothing to do with the CR3 RAW still format, so how can we speculate what the relative file sizes would be? Am I off?

Strictly speaking, resolution is points per distance unit. Megapixels can also be called 'resolution' but it only makes sense when you know the sensor size and aspect ratio.
Pixel count translates into the raw uncompressed data size by simply multiplying the number of pixels by number of bits per pixel.
 
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slclick

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What do you mean by this? What would be the difference?


Here's the quote from the white paper that you are probably referring to, listing the new features of the Digic X:

"Dedicated sections (“blocks”) of the processor for specific Dual Pixel CMOS AF tasks, and for subject detection (including the new Head Detection AF, and AF trackingc apabilities for both viewfinder and Live View shooting)."
I believe it was either Craig himself orcanonnews guy who said it's a line (X). Sort of how OSX isn't a particular build but a group of builds. I never got more detail but it's somewhere here. I could search and dig....It's not really a big deal though, I think more time needs to be spent on pixel well talk and cripple nomenclature.
 
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Sharlin

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I am NO video expert but maybe the video pixels need less bits than 14 so the total video transfer rate is comparable with the photo one and not higher than that.

RAW video will almost certainly be 12-bit, but so will the 20fps stills shooting mode. Even on the 1DX3 20fps e-shutter mode is 12-bit (as confirmed by fine print in the manual), and that's at half the number of megapixels.
 
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vjlex

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Strictly speaking, resolution is points per distance unit. Megapixels can also be called 'resolution' but it only makes sense when you know the sensor size and aspect ratio.
Pixel count translates into the raw uncompressed data size by simply multiplying the number of pixels by number of bits per pixel.

Thanks for replying, but your answers are taking me farther and farther away from my original question.

I didn't bring up video in my original question, but I still don't quite get how you arrived at the data size of 20 FPS still images being comparable to 8k30 video (in an as yet unknown format). I don't see how we'd even begin to compare data throughput without certain critical missing variable. But I admit, I'm ignorant about a lot of this.

At any rate, my question was more in response to this post:

on the 20fps .. it's REALLY a lot of data to move.


I wouldn't be surprised to see AF/AE locked for 20 fps. it's not a question of crippling, it's a case of it being 2.25x the data that the 1DX Mark II is processing at 20 fps.


we're talking somewhere in the range of 1.8 Gigapixels / second - just to put this into perspective, and far more than that needed to be processed.

My question was:

when comparing R5's maximum FPS to the 1DX3, is it being overlooked that the real feat is that the 1DX3 has a virtually unlimited buffer? couldn't the R5 also be capable of 20 FPS RAW, but just have a much more limited buffer, and simply have to take a longer break between shutter presses while writing to disk?
 
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High MP, 12 FPS, fast AF and accurate AF, a host of unique video features, IBIS which is big for video, ergonomics, colour magic, unique glass, CPS, ruggedness, and so on and so forth.
There is no question that pros would be tempted with all this goodness. Now OVF apart... what else may be a concern?

Ergonomics handheld with supertelephoto lenses (though I haven't used a mark III, maybe it's not as bad as I imagine).
 
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unfocused

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...fast AF and accurate AF, a host of unique video features, IBIS which is big for video, ergonomics, colour magic, unique glass, CPS, ruggedness, and so on and so forth.
There is no question that pros would be tempted with all this goodness. Now OVF apart... what else may be a concern?

Since we haven't seen the camera in action, there is no guarantee at this point that the autofocus will be fast and accurate. In comparison to DSLRs, the R is not fast and accurate when it comes to shooting action. I hope the R5 is, but it's best to wait and see. (And please, people, don't waste time posting pictures of an action shot that you got with the R. You can get good action shots with the R, but it's simply not up to DSLR standards.)
 
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Rule556

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Also, the INSTANT VIDEO (red record button) on top panel is actually a joke because… say you are taking a photo in Av mode at 1/2000 sec at f2 & instantaneously you want to record video of that…so who the hell in the world would start recording the video instantaneously at 1/2000 of a sec??? One will go to manual video mode & change shutter speed to 1/50 or 1/60 as the case maybe & then to compensate reduce the Aperture, ISO. So it’s wrong to call this RED BUTTON as INSTANT Video!! Because it is NOT.

The instant video button uses whatever settings are saved under the C3 custom video mode. Your still settings at the time are ignored.
 
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Michael Clark

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I have from the very beginning of the thread argued for a *prime* lens and given reasons why the front lens element should be at least the size of the aperture. Since then I am reading reply arguments for various *zoom* lenses ...

This is not a zoom lens. The entrance pupil is larger than the front element.

1581872734904.png

This is not a zoom lens. The entrance pupil when wide open is larger than the front element.

1581872790183.png

Every prime I've ever seen magnifies (either negatively for a retrofocus design or positively otherwise) between the physical diaphragm and the front of the lens. Are you saying Zeiss 50mm Planar lenses are not meaningful designs? Their e.p.s are slightly larger than their front elements.
 
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Sharlin

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Since we haven't seen the camera in action, there is no guarantee at this point that the autofocus will be fast and accurate. In comparison to DSLRs, the R is not fast and accurate when it comes to shooting action.

The 90D is obviously not a 5D, but its DPAF tracking speed and accuracy appears to be clearly superior to OVF autofocus. Given that the 1DX3 is now out, we should be soon getting real-world reports about autofocus differences between OVF and Live View shooting in a truly professional camera. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if 1DX3's Live View AF equals–or surpasses–even its new, improved discrete PDAF system, disregarding for a moment the poorer ergonomics of non-viewfinder shooting.
 
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Michael Clark

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I’m very curious how they’ll do this too as the A9 does it at 24mp so if the Canon could potentially do this at40mp it would be something insane.

I agree that both the Nikon and Sony fanboys will try their best to criticize it, but I’m really hoping Canon do something revolutionary with this body (which it seems like they will) and put all of them in their place.

I think the processors will play a huge part in what’s possible too. Doesn’t the1DX3 have one Digic X and another Digic 8? If they use a similar design but had two Digic X instead with one powering the AF only and the other doing the rest maybe it could be feasible?

Canon has said the DiG!C X is more than a single processing chip, it's a flexible system of multiple components, so it's not quite the same as the previous generations. Probably one reason they skipped DiG!C 9 and reverted back to Roman numerals, which they haven't used since DiG!C III.

1581873457159.png1581873468179.png
 
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Now ... another question ... Will Canon get the IBIS "right" in the first iteration?
This is my main concern. This is their first ILC with IBIS. Having been burned (badly) by the 1D3 focus issues, there is only so much you can fix with firmware. Not having IBIS work right would be a bummer for me, but it is not as bad as having focusing issues.
 
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