Canon EOS R5 pricing is still unknown, don’t believe the reports [CR0]

[Starting out EOS R]

For those of you using the R for sports, is there much EVF lag? Do you have to significantly change your technique?

Literally yesterday I tried using my R to shoot some ducks landing on the local pond and failed miserably due to the EVF lag.

I have to say, I don't do much shooting of moving images so am not experienced in adjusting to take account of the lag.

However my perception is that if I was a serious sports or wildlife photographer, I wouldn't use the R. A DSLR would be better as there isn't a lag. My old 7d was excellent.
I bought the R mainly for landscapes, city scapes and travel photography so taking moving images is a rare thing for me and not a deal breaker. Apart from the lag on fast FPS shooting, I love the R and cant wait for the R5.

If it can shoot 20fps, surely the EVF lag will be sorted or at least closer to instant than the R, otherwise it will be a real negative for anyone doing sports or wildlife.

 

[jeanluc]

With the global economy tanked, mass unemployment and virtually no travel for the foreseeable future, if Canon overprices these things all it will mean is there will be a lot of inventory on their balance sheet.

I think it will be priced around 3500 USD, ie right in "5D" range.

Guess we will see.

 

[JustUs7]

With the global economy tanked, mass unemployment and virtually no travel for the foreseeable future, if Canon overprices these things all it will mean is there will be a lot of inventory on their balance sheet.

I think it will be priced around 3500 USD, ie right in "5D" range.

Guess we will see.

Personally, I don’t think so, because the things you mention are known quantities, which they can factor in when they start production. Pre orders should dictate production levels.

 

[koenkooi]

Personally, I don’t think so, because the things you mention are known quantities, which they can factor in when they start production. Pre orders should dictate production levels.

I bet production has already started to build up volume for the initial sales peak.

 

[unfocused]

...It may also depend somewhat on how much the 2020 Olympics and other major sporting events in 2020 being delayed/canceled affects sales of the 1D Mark III. If a lot of potential 1D X Mark III buyers take a pass because they don't need them in 2020 and buy R5 bodies instead, it could keep the R5 price at MSRP for longer than would otherwise be the case...

I don't see that happening. If you need a 1Dx for sports, you need a 1Dx. If there aren't any sports to shoot, then you don't need to buy anything. An R5 is not going to be a suitable substitute and sports shooters won't have extra cash sitting around to buy a new body just to play with it.

 

[unfocused]

With the global economy tanked, mass unemployment and virtually no travel for the foreseeable future, if Canon overprices these things all it will mean is there will be a lot of inventory on their balance sheet...

Except that the target market is a market that has been least affected by the global pandemic. Travel will resume shortly and most of the unemployed are working stiffs that were never going to buy one anyway. The bulk of the market these days comes from enthusiasts with disposable income who are not as impacted by the pandemic's economic fallout. Working photographers are greatly impacted, but they probably constitute a much smaller percentage of the market than we think.

 

[JustUs7]

What I see in a lot of these price speculation threads is some variation of, “I hope the economy forces them to give these away!”

It’d be nice, but that’s not a sustainable business model. And with many factors known before any kind of mass production started, I don’t expect them to be stuck with excess supply they don’t want to carry.

We shall see.

 

[jolyonralph]

That's true because interpolation down has a sharpening effect. So apply same (small) amount of USM to the 24 mp and they're the same again.

While the difference may not be noticable all the time, the former is *genuine* sharpness, the latter is simulated detail algorithmically generated.

 

[neurorx]

Literally yesterday I tried using my R to shoot some ducks landing on the local pond and failed miserably due to the EVF lag.

I have to say, I don't do much shooting of moving images so am not experienced in adjusting to take account of the lag.

However my perception is that if I was a serious sports or wildlife photographer, I wouldn't use the R. A DSLR would be better as there isn't a lag. My old 7d was excellent.
I bought the R mainly for landscapes, city scapes and travel photography so taking moving images is a rare thing for me and not a deal breaker. Apart from the lag on fast FPS shooting, I love the R and cant wait for the R5.

If it can shoot 20fps, surely the EVF lag will be sorted or at least closer to instant than the R, otherwise it will be a real negative for anyone doing sports or wildlife.

Yes I am not sure what 12-20 fps would be used for if it was not sports or action of some sort.

 

[unfocused]

Yes I am not sure what 12-20 fps would be used for if it was not sports or action of some sort.

However, it wouldn't be the first time a product was introduced that had a feature which turned out to be not all that useful in practice.

 

[Pape]

Same scene shot simultaneously will be sharper on a 50mp camera than a 24mp camera, after you downsample the 50mp image to 24mp.

I got crazy thought ,how we even know there is different sensors.
Could be just one new generation sensor, that 84mpixel they auto downsample it for R5 45mpixel and for R6 20mpixel .
Lot cheaper just design one sensor .
yeah i know this is silly idea.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

That's true because interpolation down has a sharpening effect. So apply same (small) amount of USM to the 24 mp and they're the same again.

They'll never be the same, no sharpening can recover information that's just not there in the 24mp image - i.e. the lack of information compared to 50mp image, even downsampled, is not recoverable.

 

[bbasiaga]

If 6700usd is the price for this, then the R6 must be closer to 3k. We'll find out soon, and if true Canon will have replaced the cripple hammer with the {queue dramatic music} GREED HAMMER! Or is it the PIRACY HAMMER? If this is true, Canon will have found a way to answer everyone's deepest desires...the fully functional technology beast AND something for the Canon haters to complain about! Its a masterstroke!! Maybe the'll do one of those masterclasses sometime.

-Brian.

 

[Hector1970]

Except that the target market is a market that has been least affected by the global pandemic. Travel will resume shortly and most of the unemployed are working stiffs that were never going to buy one anyway. The bulk of the market these days comes from enthusiasts with disposable income who are not as impacted by the pandemic's economic fallout. Working photographers are greatly impacted, but they probably constitute a much smaller percentage of the market than we think.

I don't think travel will recover for a good while yet. If countries bring in 14 days quarantine for visitors they will be very little holiday travel. People will be slow to book holidays in the next 12 months. Refunds from airlines for cancelled flights have been a big issue. If social distancing is required on aeroplanes the price of flights will rocket. If the second wave is not as bad as the first there will be greater confidence. I'd say alot of the enthusiasts with disposable income are nervous about that disposable income. Anyone self-employed or running small business's have an uncertain future. I think there will be a general fall in the camera market with the R5 selling nothing like it could have if this hasn't all occured. There will be an initial burst of enthusiasm to buy but it will be few years before Canon see 5D III / IV type sales. I'm not even sure keeping the price below $4000 would make much difference. $4000 or $5000 is alot of money either way. Based on the specs its a camera that could have a long product cycle. Canon may want to start with a reasonably high price for the enthusiastic adopters to allow significant discount later to drag people in.

 

[privatebydesign]

They'll never be the same, no sharpening can recover information that's just not there in the 24mp image - i.e. the lack of information compared to 50mp image, even downsampled, is not recoverable.

Not necessarily true, remember the original point of contention was that a higher pixel sensor alwyas needs to be used with a tripod otherwise camera movement is visible. I pointed out that at same sized output the camera movement is the same so camera shake/subject movement is the same, it might be resolved better with the higher mp but not necessarily.

Picture this scenario, take a picture with a 6D II at a hand held speed and reproduction size you consider just acceptable, by definition you are defining the airy disc size/blur arc angle, now do that with a 5DSr, there is no more detail in the 50mp image as there isn't even detail the lower mp sensor could resolve if higher technique had been used in this specific scenario, either subject and or camera movement limited the resolution before the lower mp count got close to being reached. That doesn't preclude the scenario you talked about, and Sporgon is very experienced with the 5DS, but it just isn't necessarily true in the specific scenario under discussion and is a confusing sidestep. Now at 100% the 5DSr sensor will have blur across more pixels, but the arc will be the same angle, but at the chosen output it will give no more resolution, just 'better defined' same angled blur.

One of the reasons I left Photo.net years ago was because I was pilloried in the medium format threads because I maintained, and illustrated/proved, nobody could tell the difference between a medium format 1GB film scan and a 4mp 1D when both were reduced to 720px in line images, and it was true, but they didn't like hearing that their magical "medium format look" was utter bullsh!t.

 

[analoggrotto]

I am not sure about that. Buying power is at a low currently. And we may have a world wide recession.

I hope we can celebrate this thing being out of stock for months . And a short while of Sony alphafanoids leaving us in peace. lol

 

[FramerMCB]

My guess is 4200€ including vat in germany and first deliveries in october/november.

Though for me personaly even 5000€ would be worth it. I have a variety of 6-7 cameras in use for different photo and video-tasks that ALL could be replaced with 2-3 Canon R5s so I would even make some money with the switch, even if it was 5k per R4.

I would tend to agree with your assessment here. Although it might edge even a little higher - towards 4399€ or 4499€

 

[SteveC]

One of the reasons I left Photo.net years ago was because I was pilloried in the medium format threads because I maintained, and illustrated/proved, nobody could tell the difference between a medium format 1GB film scan and a 4mp 1D when both were reduced to 720px in line images, and it was true, but they didn't like hearing that their magical "medium format look" was utter bullsh!t.

In other words:

At 720px, a lot of information is missing. It doesn't matter much whether it's missing because the camera sensor didn't capture it in the first place, or because you threw it out in post processing whilst reducing the resolution to get your file size down.

 

[SteveC]

I hope we can celebrate this thing being out of stock for months . And a short while of Sony alphafanoids leaving us in peace. lol

Naah, they'll be over here complaining that the camera is TOO awesome.

 

[Sporgon]

They'll never be the same, no sharpening can recover information that's just not there in the 24mp image - i.e. the lack of information compared to 50mp image, even downsampled, is not recoverable.

But when you reduce the output size to 24 mp the difference in resolution becomes too small to be seen !
First off, the 5DS doesn't resolve half as much more than a 24 mp sensor as people here seem to want to believe, but the native output size is considerably larger. The small, subtley of the details that the 5DS or SR are able to resolve beyond the FF 24 mp sensor can only been seen at the 5DS native output size. Reduce that in size and you lose it anyway.

I've been using 5DS cameras for a couple of years now, and the conclusion I have come to is that the huge native output size is good for strong cropping of the image and still retaining a large output size, and of course, printing huge prints. Even then, at normal viewing distances you will not see the difference between a good, steady 24mp FF shot interpolated up to the same output size.

So that extra "information" that the 5DS recorded isn't going to be seen at smaller sizes when compared with a 24 mp FF sensor, which in it's own right is pretty high "resolution" anyway.

What you do see is significant noise reduction, so you do get an improvement in "IQ", and that's the only way I can tell the difference, and of course that's why the 5DS / SR produce good image quality at high ISOs as long as you compare the same output size to lower mp cameras that are considered "good in low light".

On the issue of having to use a tripod for cameras like the 5DS, all I'd say is that all cameras IQ benefits from a rock steady platform irrespective of the mp.