1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
200
12
New Zealand
I have seen some comments elsewhere about the 1080 quality of the Canon cameras being soft and exhibiting moire etc, it seems to be more so in the older cameras, 6d, 5dmk3 etc but a few about the 5dmk4 and 1dx2 have also come up.

How do these two compare to the likes of Nikon, Sony, Panasonic etc for their 1080 60fps or 120 fps quality? Asking for someone who is looking at a 5dmk4 in the future, from a 6d and 5dmk3, but currently uses my a7r3 for 60 fps video

I know the 4k is a sore spot for some, with the crop and file size, does this provide a better quality output, for the storage space?

Thanks.
 

sanj

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 22, 2012
3,157
49
This is a loaded question with no clear cut replies. You will find some nice things in some. At the end it all balances out.

4k? Absolutely the way to go. It provides better quality output for sure.
 

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
200
12
New Zealand
sanj said:
This is a loaded question with no clear cut replies. You will find some nice things in some. At the end it all balances out.

4k? Absolutely the way to go. It provides better quality output for sure.
Ah sorry, wasn't that clear with the last part : is the large 4k file size worth it over the more compressed options elsewhere?

But the main part is the about the 1080 recording, and yes, somewhat loaded question although I don't mean it in that way. Trying to find if people have experience in the Canon footage really being sub par, or if that is just Canon bashing
 

mistaspeedy

EOS RP
Apr 5, 2015
221
0
I have no experience with any of these cameras, so I can only repeat what I have read from various people who use them.

5D mark III seems to give the best quality 1080p out of any Canon DSLR. The only step upwards in quality is to shoot 4K on the 5D mark IV or 1DX mark II (and downscale later if you need 1080p delivery).
1080p seems to have taken a step backwards from the 5D mark III, because the resolution of this sensor was tailor made to perfectly record 1080p video. Add magic lantern into the mix and things improve even more.
5760 x 3240 (16:9 full width crop of 5D mark III sensor) scales perfectly into 1920 x 1080 in a 3:1 ratio.

You can read more from Andrew Reid here.
https://www.eoshd.com/2012/03/panasonic-gh2-vs-5d-mark-iii/
He's been highly critical of Canon lately (rightly so IMHO), but at one point he must have loved Canon a lot, so much so that the name of his blog carries the EOS name.

He seems to feel that the quality of Canon 1080p on any camera has yet to surpass the Panasonic GH2 or GH3.

Looking at various videos on Youtube seem to support this. The footage from the Canon just looks soft in comparison. An exception is Magic Lantern RAW, but that is an editing and workflow nightmare.

Others may disagree with his and my opinion and are free to post their own comparisons.

Just to recap... I'm not claiming to be any sort of expert on the topic... just repeating what I've read and seen.
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
262
80
Isaacheus said:
sanj said:
This is a loaded question with no clear cut replies. You will find some nice things in some. At the end it all balances out.

4k? Absolutely the way to go. It provides better quality output for sure.
Ah sorry, wasn't that clear with the last part : is the large 4k file size worth it over the more compressed options elsewhere?

But the main part is the about the 1080 recording, and yes, somewhat loaded question although I don't mean it in that way. Trying to find if people have experience in the Canon footage really being sub par, or if that is just Canon bashing
Canon DSLR footage has been subpar for a while, with exception of the Canon 1DC, 1DX Mk2 and 5D Magic Lantern RAW. If you're trying to maximize 1080p quality for space, then the GH4/GH5 in 4K with 100 mbps per second is the way to go. 4:2:0 compressed 4K downsampled to 1080p will beat a 4:2:0 1080p image any day. The 1080p out of the C100 is pretty decent for the data rate of around 25 mbps, but it's such a bulky camera. Magic Lantern's RAW on the 5D Mark III upscales very well to 4K and creates some of the best colors and most flexibility in post, but as previously mentioned, it is anything but easy.

The new EOS M50 may finally produce a decent 1080p image, but the 4K crop makes the micro 4/3 sensor look large, at least the crop on the M43 has a lens system designed to work for it.

If looking for a good combination of a photography/video combo and creating video in a professional environment, the new A73 would be the way to go. It takes a lot of components from the A9 which no longer has the over heating issue. In the past, Sony 4K DSLRs have been the go to workhorse for marketing work for video, and even used by the BBC, but they sometimes overheated in long form situations. I never ran into the overheating issue on the Sony, but that's because I use traditional cameras for long form.
 

swithdrawn

I'm New Here
Feb 1, 2016
16
0
withersfilms.com
I haven't done scientific tests but owning both the 1DX II and 5D3 (and having used both as my primary cameras at different points) I would say the 1080 quality is the same for both. 1080@60p on the 1DX II is noticeably softer, however. I believe the best 1080 on a Canon DSLR is the Super35 1080 mode on the 1DC.

I shoot 4k on the 1DX II and 5D IV and, in most cases, downsample to 2k/1080p in Davinci. The result is orders of magnitude sharper than the 1080p modes on both cameras and definitely worth the extra step of transcoding.
 

3dit0r

EOS M50
Dec 4, 2017
46
6
swithdrawn said:
I haven't done scientific tests but owning both the 1DX II and 5D3 (and having used both as my primary cameras at different points) I would say the 1080 quality is the same for both. 1080@60p on the 1DX II is noticeably softer, however. I believe the best 1080 on a Canon DSLR is the Super35 1080 mode on the 1DC.

I shoot 4k on the 1DX II and 5D IV and, in most cases, downsample to 2k/1080p in Davinci. The result is orders of magnitude sharper than the 1080p modes on both cameras and definitely worth the extra step of transcoding.
I agree with this. Just shoot in 4K and then either proxy edit or transcode for best results.
 

Kuja

I'm New Here
Oct 8, 2012
24
0
www.kujucev.com
mistaspeedy said:
5D mark III seems to give the best quality 1080p out of any Canon DSLR.
Canon 5Ds has better 1080p video quality.

I have used both (5DMkIII and 5Ds) side by side, on a low budget music video shoot.

5Ds was noticeably cleaner and sharper.

It is a shame that there is no ML for it.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,095
1,032
Alberta, Canada
Probably a question that's been asked and answered before but I've been to distracted. To convert 4K video from my 1DX2 to HD and be able to incorporate panning and zooming, what is the best software for a fussy beginner. I have a special trip I'm planning for late summer and I really would love to do some video and not just the usual photos.

Like so many new ventures in life, it's hard to get initial traction and I don't really want to either be bogged down in software that is near impossible to learn without numerous courses or alternately not satisfactory for reasons I would soon become aware of. I must get started on this! :(

Is there someone that does this all the time that has an overall perspective on it?

Jack
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,788
876
119
Jack Douglas said:
Probably a question that's been asked and answered before but I've been to distracted. To convert 4K video from my 1DX2 to HD and be able to incorporate panning and zooming, what is the best software for a fussy beginner. I have a special trip I'm planning for late summer and I really would love to do some video and not just the usual photos.

Like so many new ventures in life, it's hard to get initial traction and I don't really want to either be bogged down in software that is near impossible to learn without numerous courses or alternately not satisfactory for reasons I would soon become aware of. I must get started on this! :(

Is there someone that does this all the time that has an overall perspective on it?

Jack
If you are an Apple user the defacto tool is Final Cut Pro, often just abbreviated to FCP. If you are a PC user then the defacto tool is Adobe Premiere Pro. There are others but those two are the class leaders for fussy beginners (in video) with good gear and big ambitions. :)

Having said that video is a rabbit warren a magnitude leap from stills! I have taken tentative steps into video with the 1DX MkII (because I had it) and a DJI Mavic Air because I have customers that want it, but the learning curve is steep!

Two biggest commitments are stability, tripods, gimbals/steadicam, video monopods and the fact that video plates go the other way to stills plates; and sound, do you want decent ambient sound or talk to the camera blog style sound, or any of a multitude of other styles.

For my uses I have gone for the Rode VideoMic Pro Plus https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1350282-REG/rode_vmp_videomic_pro_on_camera_shotgun.html and the Zhiyun Crane 2 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1359107-REG/zhiyun_tech_crane_2_3_axis_handheld_stabilizer.html with the 1DX MkII adapter arm https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1389917-REG/zhiyun_tech_gmb_c522_gravity_adjustment_plate_for.html along with FCP and a hearty dose of YouTube videos to get me started.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,095
1,032
Alberta, Canada
Scott, thanks for this!

I can be pretty intense when it comes to self teaching; I've done lots of it all my life but I'm definitely not as sharp as I was. The biggest problem now that I'm older is just getting into it deep enough to become engaged. Once fully engaged I'm on my way and never look back.

It's so easy to throw money away on impulse as you know so that's what I'm trying to avoid. My situation, other than I'm not a long time pro, kind of parallels yours and maybe if you're willing you could be there in the background relating to my challenges - you've been more than helpful in the past. My video involvement would likely only be short nature/wildlife and landscape clips that I'd assemble. Never the less, how does one know when they've never been engaged in it.

I will digest what you've provided and interact further later.

Did you give any thought to this mic? Azden SMX-30 Stereo/Mono Video Mic

Jack
 

bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
453
449
Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
Jack Douglas said:
Probably a question that's been asked and answered before but I've been to distracted. To convert 4K video from my 1DX2 to HD and be able to incorporate panning and zooming, what is the best software for a fussy beginner. I have a special trip I'm planning for late summer and I really would love to do some video and not just the usual photos.

Like so many new ventures in life, it's hard to get initial traction and I don't really want to either be bogged down in software that is near impossible to learn without numerous courses or alternately not satisfactory for reasons I would soon become aware of. I must get started on this! :(

Is there someone that does this all the time that has an overall perspective on it?

Jack
Hi Jack.
I had the same hesitation when coming to select a video editing software. Many of them are overloaded with features that may be overkill for just simple panning, zooming and transcoding.
I use Windows ecosystem. I started with Cyberlink PowerDirector which has an intuitive interface and fast transcoding capability for 4K to HD. It allows you to edit, zoom, add titles, transitions between scenes and do color correction, color matching between scenes and even applying color lookup tables. I found it intuitive and easy to use to overcome the initial hesitation.
The next steps were jumping on Adobe's Premiere Pro CC and MediaEncoder CC for more advanced editing, color management and audio-video matching and transcoding, etc., as they were part of the CC package, so using them by force rather than by choice. The learning curve with premiere Pro was like climbing a downhill ski slope from bottom to top! but getting the job done with a more pro look has been very rewarding.
 

reef58

EOS 80D
Apr 16, 2016
143
16
Wow lots of great information in this thread. Considering dipping the toe in video myself.
 

jayphotoworks

EOS 80D
Aug 11, 2016
188
57
Jack Douglas said:
Scott, thanks for this!

I can be pretty intense when it comes to self teaching; I've done lots of it all my life but I'm definitely not as sharp as I was. The biggest problem now that I'm older is just getting into it deep enough to become engaged. Once fully engaged I'm on my way and never look back.

It's so easy to throw money away on impulse as you know so that's what I'm trying to avoid. My situation, other than I'm not a long time pro, kind of parallels yours and maybe if you're willing you could be there in the background relating to my challenges - you've been more than helpful in the past. My video involvement would likely only be short nature/wildlife and landscape clips that I'd assemble. Never the less, how does one know when they've never been engaged in it.

I will digest what you've provided and interact further later.

Did you give any thought to this mic? Azden SMX-30 Stereo/Mono Video Mic

Jack
If you are just starting off, before you get into a transcoding and proxy workflow, try to evaluate your system's performance first by directly editing your camera's native files. You can also use Premiere's playback resolution set to a fraction (1/4, 1/2, etc.) of the original resolution depending on your source files. If you are doing light editing, cuts and titles with limited use of transitions and layers, you may be able to skip a bunch of steps and potentially introduce some new issues along the way. You can learn this workflow at a later date when you are comfortable with the basics of editing.

With the Azden mic or any 3.5mm mic, the most important thing is to monitor your battery life and make sure the plug sits fully into the jack. If you aren't monitoring with headphones or indicators and the battery runs down or the plug isn't fully seated and you aren't aware of this, you will get no sound at all (the microphone input disables the camera's internal mic)
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
This may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvpJSmB_Ps

The fellow compares a Canon 1DX Mark II and an Sony A7R III. His findings are interesting; it's worth a watch.

Spoilers/TLDR:
- He really really really wanted to switch to the Sony A7R III because of size (he hates 1DXII size)
- 1DXII is better for 1080p video (also, it supports 4k 60fps vs 30fps 4k on Sony, but he doesn't care)
- Slow motion on 1DXII is significantly smoother
- AF on 1DXII is better. Also, when it's OOF and acquiring focus, the result on a 1DXII is more pleasing
- AF on Sony with adapted lens is not good enough. But he says native lens is also inferior to 1DXII
- He likes Canon colors better
- The 1DXII is going to remain his video rig; he's going to probably return the A7RIII
- If it were just photography, he'd probably go A7RIII, because of size
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,140
380
Talys said:
This may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvpJSmB_Ps

The fellow compares a Canon 1DX Mark II and an Sony A7R III. His findings are interesting; it's worth a watch.

Spoilers/TLDR:
- He really really really wanted to switch to the Sony A7R III because of size (he hates 1DXII size)
- 1DXII is better for 1080p video (also, it supports 4k 60fps vs 30fps 4k on Sony, but he doesn't care)
- Slow motion on 1DXII is significantly smoother
- AF on 1DXII is better. Also, when it's OOF and acquiring focus, the result on a 1DXII is more pleasing
- AF on Sony with adapted lens is not good enough. But he says native lens is also inferior to 1DXII
- He likes Canon colors better
- The 1DXII is going to remain his video rig; he's going to probably return the A7RIII
- If it were just photography, he'd probably go A7RIII, because of size
Interesting. Others have said that 1DXII and 5DII 1080 was soft.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,095
1,032
Alberta, Canada
bhf3737, thanks for this information. Sometimes folk forget what it's like when you've had zero previous involvement. Even the most basic terms and concepts are foreign.

After Scott's comments, I checked into Adobe Premiere Pro, but that's subscription and often I find myself not using software for periods of other involvement and am not sure I want to go that route. Perhaps that's just a mental block but it's one reason I bought ON1 RAW, for example.

I will check out Cyberlink PowerDirector because it sounds like that's just what I want to do and I'm not making money off this activity and likely won't get as engaged as I do with photos ... but one never knows, right? ;)

Another thing is what size of lens can be handled by the stabilized gimbals - like would I be fine with the 11-24?

Jack
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,095
1,032
Alberta, Canada
Thanks jayphotoworks; great info on using a mic. Presently, I can't do any 4K editing other than with Corel Videostudio X9. The Corel guy said it can't do the 4K to 1050 with panning or I was thinking of upgrading to X10 - looks like that software purchase was a waste.

So about all I've done is record some 4K and played it back (Canon or Corel). Another issue is only having 64 and 128 CFast cards at the moment but that's easy to solve with $$$. Shooting with 400 X2 was an eye opener in terms of shake. You can't even touch the camera so I guess it'd have to be fixed on a spot and then remote release.

Any advice from anyone, please remember I'm a complete dummy at this moment relative to video. :(

Once someone was being roasted over owning a 1DX2 and not wanting/being able to afford CFast cards. I can relate; you spend way to much on a camera and lens and have little left - duh. Actually, I'm able to still afford some gear but can't be foolish in that regard. Furthermore my nature is to be careful spending and other family members have a right to some toys too.

Jack
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,788
876
119
Jack Douglas said:
Another thing is what size of lens can be handled by the stabilized gimbals - like would I be fine with the 11-24?

Jack
I linked to the Zhiyun Crane 2 (not v2) because it is the only gimbal of that type and price bracket that can take 7lbs, or enough for the 1DX MkII and 11-24, but you do need the gravity plate I also linked to because of the height of the 1DX MkII.

Indeed that body lens combo is what I am getting mine for, the 11mm enables super wide fov even with a 4k crop, although the first jobs I have lined up for it are 1080 real estate walk throughs.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,095
1,032
Alberta, Canada
Thanks Scott!

Guess I've steered this a little off topic but maybe not enough to bother anyone??

Do you sense we're on the edge of these stabilized gimbals coming down in price?

I watched the video and I think that guy made pretty valid points. Certainly the AF characteristic is important to me.

Is an external monitor relevant or does the gimbal give you flexibility on viewing further away?

Jack