1DX vs 1D IV ??

B

briansquibb

Guest
Crapking said:
but i missed the ZONE and 4 point expansion options.
They are there on the 1D4 - I use expansion by default.

1D4 has:

- left/right expansion
- one point all round(9points)
- 18 point expansion

The 1D4 has a whole bunch of options around the AF and the AF points mostly (from memory) the same as the 7D plus a few extras.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,092
648
briansquibb said:
Crapking said:
but i missed the ZONE and 4 point expansion options.
They are there on the 1D4 - I use expansion by default.

1D4 has:

- left/right expansion
- one point all round(9points)
- 18 point expansion

The 1D4 has a whole bunch of options around the AF and the AF points mostly (from memory) the same as the 7D plus a few extras.
No zone-af or spot-af on the mk4... The X will get the same layout , Q-button, as the 7d..
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,537
1,970
Viggo said:
No zone-af or spot-af on the mk4...
The 1D IV does have Spot AF, however, it's only available when using a supertele with a lens AF stop button. On the 7D, Spot AF is available with any lens.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,092
648
neuroanatomist said:
Viggo said:
No zone-af or spot-af on the mk4...
The 1D IV does have Spot AF, however, it's only available when using a supertele with a lens AF stop button. On the 7D, Spot AF is available with any lens.
Yeah, I know, but to me, it's so stupid to only have it with the supertele's, I left it out on purpose ;D especially since I used to own the 300 2.8 and saw how cool the spot-af really is, only to back to my 85 and miss because it can't do spot...
 

revup67

Memories in the Making
Dec 20, 2010
641
3
Southern California
www.flickr.com
Put another way, if you buy a FF camera but then have to crop all your images to 1.3x or 1.6x FoV, you're throwing away the IQ advantages of FF over the smaller sensors, and so you might as well just get the cheaper camera (from an IQ standpoint). Conversely, if you only need to crop a few of your images, the IQ with the FF will be a decided advantage. That might mean getting longer lenses to compensate for the loss of 1.3x crop...which suits Canon just fine...
Neuro - this was well stated -so true.

Like some of you, that Spot AF is a necessity for me as well. The 7D spoiled me on this and it's availability with all lenses. It's a must have. Does anyone have a tally as to which currently available Canon DSLR bodies have this feature on FF for all lenses?
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,092
648
revup67 said:
Put another way, if you buy a FF camera but then have to crop all your images to 1.3x or 1.6x FoV, you're throwing away the IQ advantages of FF over the smaller sensors, and so you might as well just get the cheaper camera (from an IQ standpoint). Conversely, if you only need to crop a few of your images, the IQ with the FF will be a decided advantage. That might mean getting longer lenses to compensate for the loss of 1.3x crop...which suits Canon just fine...
Neuro - this was well stated -so true.

Like some of you, that Spot AF is a necessity for me as well. The 7D spoiled me on this and it's availability with all lenses. It's a must have. Does anyone have a tally as to which currently available Canon DSLR bodies have this feature on FF for all lenses?
Yes, the 1d X.
 
B

briansquibb

Guest
Viggo said:
briansquibb said:
Crapking said:
but i missed the ZONE and 4 point expansion options.
They are there on the 1D4 - I use expansion by default.

1D4 has:

- left/right expansion
- one point all round(9points)
- 18 point expansion

The 1D4 has a whole bunch of options around the AF and the AF points mostly (from memory) the same as the 7D plus a few extras.
No zone-af or spot-af on the mk4... The X will get the same layout , Q-button, as the 7d..
I think perhaps an explaination is needed on the 1D4 AF

- the 1d4 has 45 AF points of which 39 are cross type at f2.8 or higher with the vertical line twice as sensitive as the horizontal
- for f/4 lens 44 points are horizontal ine sensitive with the centre point being cross type EXCEPT:

for these f/4 lens all 39 are cross types:
EF17-40mm f/4L USM,
EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM,
EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM + Extender EF1.4X II,
EF200mm f/2L IS USM + Extender EF2X II,
EF300mm f/2.8L IS USM + Extender EF1.4X II,
EF400mm f/2.8L IS USM + Extender EF1.4X II

- AF expansion - 3 options here

* left/right - 2 points, used typically for panning
* surrounding - 7 points. (7D only uses 5 in the centre, 4 at the edges)
* 6 above and below and three each side of the selected, 19 points (equivalent in the 7D zoning which uses just 9 points in the centre or 5 points top,bottom,left and right ) The 1D4 version of zoning is far better off centre

The greater number of AF points in the 1d4(45) means that they are significantly closer than the 7D(19) points

I would suggest then that the 1D4 AF is better than the 7D as you might expect
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,537
1,970
briansquibb said:
- AF expansion - 3 options here

* left/right - 2 points, used typically for panning
* surrounding - 7 points. (7D only uses 5 in the centre, 4 at the edges)
* 6 above and below and three each side of the selected, 19 points (equivalent in the 7D zoning which uses just 9 points in the centre or 5 points top,bottom,left and right ) The 1D4 version of zoning is far better off centre
Just to clarify your clarification ;) that's not how Zone AF works. Expansion (whether 2 points, 7 points, or 19/45 points) means it uses your manally selected single point, and the additional expansion points are used only if the subject moves away from the manually selected point, or if the manually selected point cannot achieve a focus lock.

Zone AF is similar to fully automatic AF point selection, in that the camera will select the AF point on the closest subject, but Zone AF restricts that automatic selection to a specific region of the field of view.

The 1D X will have Zone AF like the 7D, and also two expansion options (4 points in a 'plus' shape or all 8 surrounding points).
 
B

briansquibb

Guest
neuroanatomist said:
briansquibb said:
- AF expansion - 3 options here

* left/right - 2 points, used typically for panning
* surrounding - 7 points. (7D only uses 5 in the centre, 4 at the edges)
* 6 above and below and three each side of the selected, 19 points (equivalent in the 7D zoning which uses just 9 points in the centre or 5 points top,bottom,left and right ) The 1D4 version of zoning is far better off centre


Just to clarify your clarification ;) that's not how Zone AF works. Expansion (whether 2 points, 7 points, or 19/45 points) means it uses your manally selected single point, and the additional expansion points are used only if the subject moves away from the manually selected point, or if the manually selected point cannot achieve a focus lock.

Zone AF is similar to fully automatic AF point selection, in that the camera will select the AF point on the closest subject, but Zone AF restricts that automatic selection to a specific region of the field of view.

The 1D X will have Zone AF like the 7D, and also two expansion options (4 points in a 'plus' shape or all 8 surrounding points).
Yes - I should have made that clearer. Now that the 7Ds have gone the detail about the finer points have been replaced by the 1D4 finer points :D

It would be interesting to know how people use the various AF options. I would be interested to know if the AF point on the 1D4 are the same size as the 7D or whether, as I suspect, they are smaller.

I use the surrounding points expansion by default, but switch to 19point expansion for fast moving subjects
 

Crapking

"Whatever you are....be a good one." AL
Nov 9, 2011
445
0
jjlabella.photoshelter.com
As the OP, I again thank you for your insights - I didn't have enough time last weekend to fully explore the AF of the 1d and (mistakenly) undervalued it c/w my 7D. I trust the additional time I will have with it (now that I hit the "Proceed to Checkout" button :) ), will allow me to better compare all of these options. I also trust the incremental ISO / noise performance over the 7D will allow me the freedom to push my low light vision. Ultimately, as so many others have said, why wait? It is a great camera and I know I will be using it ALOT between now and whenever I might be able to get my hands on a 1Dx (as I have been unable to secure a pre-order). Again, thanks for helping me decide.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,537
1,970
briansquibb said:
It would be interesting to know how people use the various AF options. I would be interested to know if the AF point on the 1D4 are the same size as the 7D or whether, as I suspect, they are smaller.
They are the same size, which makes perfect sense from an optics standpoint. Canon uses the same 48-bit lines for their sensors (sometimes in offset pairs they call 'dual zig zag'), and an f/2.8 baseline is the same physical size regardless of sensor format. If you take an image of a 1D IV AF sensor and superimpose it on an image of the 7D sensor, you can rotate one of them 45 degrees and see that the spacing of the f/2.8 lines is the same for both. That's physics.

The exception is the center point on some 1-series bodies, where 96-bit lines are used (same length, twice the density, which is how they manage accuracy equivalent to Canon's normal f/2.8 and f/5.6 at f/4 and f/8, respectively).

Sidebar: that 'trick' may be exactly how Nikon is offering many f/8 points on the D4 - they have the lines spaced at f/8 spacing, but gave them double density to make up for the shorter baseline.