21mp Sensor in the 7D Mark II? [CR1]

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Krob78

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sfunglee said:
neuroanatomist said:
18 MP. 21 MP. 24 MP. Even 15 MP. Frankly, I don't especially care. If it does a full stop or more better in terms of high ISO noise performance for RAW images vs. the 7D, a 7DII will be interesting to me. If not, no interest.

+1

I owned 2 units of 7D, sold the old &for a new 7D for extra zoom & overall built =) , but I can't bear to wait the new 7DII for several reason... If no ISO improvement really feel upset...
They've been listening to everyone gripe about the high ISO performance of the 7D for the last 3 years. I'd have to admit if they didn't work on that and give us at least 1 stop better performance on the Mk II, why would there really be any enticement to upgrade? 10fps over 8fps? Not for me...

More superb AF system, something on the 5D3 level or close? That may do it but after working with my 7D for the last several years, I pretty much can nail AF using technique that has improved with time and the 7D in my hands... We are often one, the 7d and I...

Even yet, the real seller for me is going to be very improved high ISO performance... that's the other shoe waiting to drop... ???
 
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I wonder will we see DIGIC 6, or dual fives in the 7DII? Not sure how adding more pixels to either camera will improve anything. I guess it's not a huge jump though I can't see the high ISO looking any better than it does now on a 7D. Wish they'd stick with 18mp and just aim at improving image quality but then where's the marketing strategy? Numbers sell.
 
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Krob78

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Zv said:
I wonder will we see DIGIC 6, or dual fives in the 7DII? Not sure how adding more pixels to either camera will improve anything. I guess it's not a huge jump though I can't see the high ISO looking any better than it does now on a 7D. Wish they'd stick with 18mp and just aim at improving image quality but then where's the marketing strategy? Numbers sell.
They could pull it off with the Dual Digic 5plus.. that wouldn't be bad. Dual Digic 6 may be a screamer though! Looking forward to some Cr2 rumors!
 
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dilbert said:
Don Haines said:
So lets see if I understand this... The 7D2 MIGHT be 21 megapixels, or it MIGHT be 24, or it could possibly be 18. And the 70D MIGHT have one of those sensors.... or it could be something else.....

Yeah, I know... sounds like a company that knows what it is doing, doesn't it?

I love it when this site gets interpreted as if the url is canonfacts.com

ALL OF THIS STUFF IS SPECULATION PEOPLE. HEAR SAY. ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. A DUMPING GROUND FOR PROTOTYPE SPECS THAT WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF DAY. THIS SITE IS FOR YOUR ENTERTAINMENT - THAT'S IT. STOP BASING YOUR HAPPINESS OFF OF WHAT YOU READ HERE.
 
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Krob78 said:
They could pull it off with the Dual Digic 5plus.. that wouldn't be bad. Dual Digic 6 may be a screamer though! Looking forward to some Cr2 rumors!

They might use dual 5+ again this time, but I still have my hopes up for Digic 6.

A considerable delay on a model could mean they've put Digic 6 on it.

FWIW, I bet we're gonna be seing 2x 5+ on the 7dmk2, and digic 6 on the 70D. ;)
 
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I could use a crop body just for some reach at times, but this is going to have to offer something with an awfully big WOW effect to entice me. The 5DIII does everything pretty darn well as it is.

I hope it has something enticing, because I like new stuff. As it is, I can get a T3i for $500 for the occasional bit of reach.
 
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Sep 8, 2010
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For me to buy a 7DII, sensor performance will need to be greatly improved. I don't care about being able to push an underexposed shot 5-stops, it's just not the way I shoot. I do want better tonal transitions and cleaner low and high ISO performance. The thing that stands out to me is how "durable" APS-H and FF Canon raw files seem to be compared to APS-C files. My 7D files require more sharpening and more overall PP compared to FF raw files, and that's understood, but when I do PP aggressively, the images start to fall apart pretty fast. If that can be improved, I'll stick with APS-C because I'm still reach limited, otherwise, I'll keep my 7D and add a FF body....
 
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Actually I'd like to pull it back 5 stops and keep the highlights intact. The rest is just an empty bank account.

Stone said:
For me to buy a 7DII, sensor performance will need to be greatly improved. I don't care about being able to push an underexposed shot 5-stops, it's just not the way I shoot. I do want better tonal transitions and cleaner low and high ISO performance. The thing that stands out to me is how "durable" APS-H and FF Canon raw files seem to be compared to APS-C files. My 7D files require more sharpening and more overall PP compared to FF raw files, and that's understood, but when I do PP aggressively, the images start to fall apart pretty fast. If that can be improved, I'll stick with APS-C because I'm still reach limited, otherwise, I'll keep my 7D and add a FF body....
 
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Stone said:
For me to buy a 7DII, sensor performance will need to be greatly improved. I don't care about being able to push an underexposed shot 5-stops, it's just not the way I shoot. I do want better tonal transitions and cleaner low and high ISO performance. The thing that stands out to me is how "durable" APS-H and FF Canon raw files seem to be compared to APS-C files. My 7D files require more sharpening and more overall PP compared to FF raw files, and that's understood, but when I do PP aggressively, the images start to fall apart pretty fast. If that can be improved, I'll stick with APS-C because I'm still reach limited, otherwise, I'll keep my 7D and add a FF body....

I agree the RAW files from the 5D II can be pushed a lot more than the 7D ones. I also find myself using the NR sliders a lot more when using 7D files! Even after correcting images that are shot at ISO 100 they start to look noisy. Just an extra annoying pp step i would like to avoid.
 
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Krob78

When in Doubt, Press the Shutter...
Aug 8, 2012
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siegsAR said:
Krob78 said:
They could pull it off with the Dual Digic 5plus.. that wouldn't be bad. Dual Digic 6 may be a screamer though! Looking forward to some Cr2 rumors!

They might use dual 5+ again this time, but I still have my hopes up for Digic 6.

A considerable delay on a model could mean they've put Digic 6 on it.

FWIW, I bet we're gonna be seing 2x 5+ on the 7dmk2, and digic 6 on the 70D. ;)
I agree, that's my best guess as well, I can't see them not having dual Digic whether 5+ or 6... That's a huge part of what made the 7d the 7d!
 
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Depends for me. I will wait two years and see what Nikon and Canon have to offer in the crop sensor line of cameras. I picked up a Mark IV and will use it two years. Then if Canon has a good crop camera that is not crippled with AF and IQ. I will buy it. Or move to Nikon if they have a good camera for my needs. I want the DR that Nikon cameras offer. At this point I am willing to give up there excellent telephoto lenses for a better camera. I have a friend that shoots Nikon with the 500 mm lens and the cameras from Nikon are really giving him room to improve. Even if my lens is sharper it is not noticeable. And there sensors are better IMO for birding and wildlife in general.

www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos
www.birdsthatfart.com
 
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dilbert said:
Don Haines said:
So lets see if I understand this... The 7D2 MIGHT be 21 megapixels, or it MIGHT be 24, or it could possibly be 18. And the 70D MIGHT have one of those sensors.... or it could be something else.....

Yeah, I know... sounds like a company that knows what it is doing, doesn't it?

Actually, it DOES! Really! You don't just crank out a any old new sensor because you have some competition. You prototype, experiment, test a few models, tweak & refine, and eventually produce a solid, stable, final product that consumers will be happy purchasing. Canon had multiple prototype 1D X models out in the field for nearly a year (and quite probably more than a year, if they had them out before the paper announcement) before they finally settled on one. If they are trying to make the 7D line a higher grade professional line, it is NOT surprising if they are testing multiple prototypes with multiple sensor designs.

That said...these ARE just RUMORS. Canon has not actually announced ANYTHING! Regardless of how many rumors people fling about, no one even knows for sure what Canon is actually doing. So, dilbert..you can't really apply the "chaos" you are trying to use AGAINST Canon as their ACTUAL mode of operation, now can you?
 
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LetTheRightLensIn said:
I wonder if it will be a new process with modern levels of low ISO DR or not.
If not, then I'd be fearing for even the 5D4 :( to get such a sensor.

I would expect the Big MP camera to get the DR boost. The 7D has always been an action photography camera, and with a bump up to 10fps and a better AF system (crosses fingers), I suspect it will attract even more action shooters. We tend to shoot at higher ISO rather than lower ISO, so I can see Canon focusing on that end of things more than high performance low ISO DR. At least, for this particular sensor.

That said, I agree, I do hope this is Canon's first 180nm process sensor. Would be nice to see some real-world evidence they are ready to move to a new process, and start making more efficient use of their silicon (i.e. larger light-sensitive photodiode area -> greater full well capacity -> lower noise/better SNR at high ISO.)
 
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Stone said:
For me to buy a 7DII, sensor performance will need to be greatly improved. I don't care about being able to push an underexposed shot 5-stops, it's just not the way I shoot. I do want better tonal transitions and cleaner low and high ISO performance. The thing that stands out to me is how "durable" APS-H and FF Canon raw files seem to be compared to APS-C files. My 7D files require more sharpening and more overall PP compared to FF raw files, and that's understood, but when I do PP aggressively, the images start to fall apart pretty fast. If that can be improved, I'll stick with APS-C because I'm still reach limited, otherwise, I'll keep my 7D and add a FF body....

The biggest factor there is the simple fact that larger sensors gather more light at each photodiode, thanks to larger photodiode area. Area is the the thing that really matters, and FF sensors have quite a bit more. An improvement in quantum efficiency would help as well. Canon sensors have reached around 47% or so, however other manufacturers have been well into the 50% range, some even pushing 60%, over the last few years. If Canon could improve Q.E., and apply some active cooling to control dark current noise, the tiny pixels of 20-25mp APS-C sensors could become significantly more efficient, resulting in much better high ISO noise performance.
 
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I'm sorry things like this never sit with me.

I don't believe articles like this for 2 reasons:

1. If a camera is due for release in the next six months, they wouldn't be making decisions about what is going to be in the camera. They know already and have already made that decision. If they haven't then the camera will take longer than 6 months to come to market.

2. Unless you're somebody in the Canon R&D department, you're not going to know details like this.
 
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