5D Mark III [CR1]

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I would be very very happy with 2 stop noise improvement. But can they really pull that off at 28 megapixels?

RAW video sounds interesting, but seems like it would take up TONS of space.



Canon Rumors said:
<strong>First 5D Mark III Spec List.</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>28 megapixel</li>
<li>2 Stop Noise Improvement</li>
<li>63-segment metering</li>
<li>1920×1080 30/25/24 frame Video</li>
<li>RAW Video</li>
<li>CES Announcement</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>CR’s Take</strong>

I posted this because it seems like a rumor that may spread around the web.</p>
<p>It’s highly unlikely Canon will introduce a 5D Mark III at CES.</p>
<p><strong></strong><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r </strong>
 
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unruled

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macfly said:
The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions. It is my understanding that that had no idea it would be such a hit, and also not planned for its success, which is what maybe side swiped the 1Ds line. The thing that has made it such a hit is its video ability, much, much more than it's stills ability. Thats what really took Canon by suprise. They are selling far more of them as video units than they are as still cameras, and it has created a hybrid market boom nobody really saw coming.

Have you guys seen Restrepo on the big screen? It is awesome, all all filmed on the 5D Mkll. The video quality is so good that they are now being used to folm TV show (House for one) and also as 'disposables' on many big budget feature films. They get put inside stunt vehicles, explosions, and other full destruction situations with the expectation that they'll be destroyed, all you need to recover is the card. Many big budget action films made today will 'consume' a dozen or 5D's during filming.

http://restrepothemovie.com/

actually they only filmed that one house season finale with the 5d II.
 
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epitope said:
I'm also looking forward to see if the dynamic range is improved. I'd trade 6-figure ISO for more DR any day of the week.

I totally agree. I find the biggest problem for the image quality from a 5D2 to be its low-iso pattern noise (banding) that severely limits the dynamic range. 50D also has this problem (it's from the same generation). The 7D is way better in this respect, and I expect a 5D3 to be as well. See http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=750731 for a detailed discussion.

Unfortunately, these rumoured specs do not look very credible... at all. I'm expecting a 5D3 no earlier than by the end of 2011. Hopefully together with a 24-70/2.8L IS :p
 
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J

Justin

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Raw video. This would be the feature that would keep the mark 2 sales pace going or even exceed it. For 3500 or less these cameras would fly off the shelf.

scalesusa said:
Grendel said:
RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.

I agree that it is unlikely, however, no one yet knows what the next new generation of digic processors can do. However, Red cameras have had RAW output, so it is possible if it is a priority.

Why would Canon want to do it? Sales is the answer. Sales of the 5D MK II far exceeded their forecasts, and professional videographers are using it for commercial videos. They do not buy just one, but by the dozen.

The potential for sales is not lost on Canon.
 
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richy

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+1 for more DR :)

Re sales figures. I have no idea if it exceeded predicted demand but demand did outstrip supply for a long time, possibly because canon didn't predict demand or possibly because they restricted supply to reduce the impact on 1ds3 sales or just to produce hype (i.e. if its in short supply it must be awesome) but perhaps I'm just too cynical lol.

IIRC the season finale of house was at least partially shot with 5d2's due to their compact size and low light ability, but I think I also remember comments about it costing a fortune in post, I'm not a videographer or DP so I couldn't say lol It's sure been loved by many people.

Canon also make video cameras, quite decent ones costing many many pennies. I would imagine that canon are in no hurry to produce a 2.5k camera that not only canibalises 1ds sales but also their lucrative video business. I would love to be proved wrong, I have no evidence just guessing based on logic.

The same logic applies to the af. No real technical reason prevented the 5d2 having better af, it will have been deliberately offered with 'midrange' af to keep at least some kind of a reason to buy their 8k 1ds3. Canon are far from stupid (although the direct print button worship coupled with the resistance to a mlu button has me worried they may not be that far from it) and will have carefully mapped out their offerings to get the most money from the most number of people.

What suprises me is that Nikon who AFAIK have no video business have not been pushing video harder.

Raw video is possible, perhaps we may even see two versions of a 5d3 with a higher priced one able to record longer video clips?

Couldn't agree more re the gains in noise being jpg not raw. When the d3s came out folks were posting web sized jpegs at a trillion iso but noone had the cahoonies to post a raw / nef at that iso, always some excuse about loosing some functionality etc. No doubt its a great camera, and post processing advances in nr are great but lets keep a fair baseline and check out the raw starting point.
 
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Admin US West

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Nov 30, 2010
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Actually, I saw a quote from one of the web sites from Canon, saying that they were caught by surprise at the sales volume. They also mention their suprise on their web site at the initial demand.

Even now, many camera sellers can not get enough for the Christmas demand and sell out in a few days after getting stock. I'm sure that they will all have them in stock after the holidays.

As to those saying that a company restricts production to increase demand, this is silly. Demand for the cameras was so strong as soon as they were announced that some sellers stopped taking pre-orders because they had so many that they knew they could not fill them all.

The reason for shortages is simple, the sales department projects sales, components are ordered, and production of lot sizes to meet sales projections begins. Some parts are just in time delivered, but I have found that small cheap components are usually run off in large batches by subcontractors, and just held in inventory for just in time shipment to the manufacturer. If demand outstrips the production capability, there will be shortages, but the factory may be able to increase production rates a little due to the parts held in inventory by subcontractors. However, if the demand far outstrips the provisioning of components, then long lead components become a big problem. The production of the 21mp sensors is limited to factory time allocated, silicon wafer availibity, and production capacity of the actual machinery. They are undoubtedly made in batches, so there may not be a window open for another batch, and it requires replanning, acquisition of more raw materials, etc to speed up production.

I have over 30 years experience in product manufacturing, and every company I've delt with faces the same issues. You can not just simply increase production overnight.

The same applies to overproduction, it is usually less expensive to continue to overproduce for a limited time than to slow down or shut down a product assembly line.
You did not see this with the 60D.
 
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richy

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Well I'm terribly terribly sorry for daring to think out loud lol. I merely suggested one of several potential reasons, my initial comment supported your comments but I guess you missed that one :) Demand surely outstripped supply and a likely reason for that is poor forecasting. Not the only reason, and given you provided no supporting facts I fail to see how any of the comments, yours included, is anything more than guess work (well it is a rumours site ;) ).
Doesn't it contradict your poor forecasting suggestion that years after production started they are still not making enough? Yes in some ways it doesn't make much sense to restrict supply, however a certain german car maker has been restricting supply to some models for a long time and as such has cars which appreciate after being sold. There are reasons for doing it, it has been done and it will be done again in the future. I have no idea if this was the case with the 5d2, I was just suggesting some possibilities.
Perhaps you should suggest to canon they sack their sales forecasting team given after 3 years they cannot reliably predict demand.
The ps3 and bluray drives were a perfect example of supply outstripping demand due to new technology being hard to scale, however in the face of demand productivity did scale. Just look at the iphone and how easy it is for apply to massively increase production every quarter (11m-14m-21m or something equally silly, they are allegedly ordering an extra 6 million cdma units for Q1 2011, thats a serious bump), it can be done in some circumstances (the ford s max is an example of it taking forever to ramp) under the right conditions.
Given canon must be making money on a unit basis, you have to admit that they should be able by now to keep the thing in plentiful supply unless perhaps there is another reason? Unless they have diverted capacity elsewhere (they have added extra tiers, I have lost count how many different tiers they have these days)? Again, not intending to offend any sensibilities, just thinking out loud.
 
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Admin US West

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unruled said:
scalesusa said:
Grendel said:
RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.

I have the feeling (Ie. don't have facts to back it up), that dSLR use for videography is still very very niche... it is catching on.. but im not convinced its a big chunk of sales as of yet

Canon is not going to publish figures, they don't always know what you will use a camera for. However, one only need look at the huge market for ADD-ons for video use of DSLR's to realize that a whole new market segment has been created.

DSLR's are being used more and more for filming commercials for TV, but the 5D MK II use for movies is limited by the compression artifacts which are expensive and difficult to remove thru post processing. That is why videographers wish for RAW.

check out cinema5d.com to see the huge following that has sprung up virtually overnight.

Better yet, google DSLR video, you might be suprised at some pretty high end TV shows that use DSLR's for all or a portion of their episodes, the list of users is almost endless.

There is a reason why Canon has added video features to its cameras after initial release when they generally do not add features at all. The interest shown by the video community apparently convinced them that money was to be made, and not in small amonts either.
 
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B

Bob Howland

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In addition to Canon still photography gear, I own a Panasonic TM700 video camera, which takes absolutely superb videos, given enough light, and really bad still images. First, its base ISO seems to be about 25, since its sensors are really small. Second, it uses individual sensors for red, green and blue, not a single Bayer sensor. Third, each sensor has slightly more than 2MP. A 1920x1080 video doesn't require a lot of pixels. Fourth, the control functionality in my video camera and in the newly introduced Canon XF100/105/300/305 models is nothing like the control functionality of a DSLR.

All of this leads me to question whether a 28MP FF DSLR is the optimum platform on which to build a state of the art video camera. My guess is that, instead of putting magical video capabilities in the 5DMkIII, Canon will introduce one or more state-of-the-art APS-C or APS-H video cameras, possibly taking interchangeable Canon EF and/or EF-S mount lenses and/or PL mount lenses. I further predict that the prices will take your breath away.
 
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BJNY said:
Bob Howland said:
macfly said:
The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions.

I repeat my question - what is your basis for saying that? I'd like to see some data please.

Japanese 2010 System Camera Sales Analysis:
http://www.43rumors.com/japanaese-2010-system-camera-sales-analysis/
So that means, the 5DMkII sold well?
 
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WarStreet

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BJNY said:
Bob Howland said:
macfly said:
The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions.

I repeat my question - what is your basis for saying that? I'd like to see some data please.


Japanese 2010 System Camera Sales Analysis:
http://www.43rumors.com/japanaese-2010-system-camera-sales-analysis/

On my opinion, these numbers are fantastic for the 5DII. Usually, the cheaper items sells more. the 5DII is the only full frame in the list. I think the second most expensive item in the list is the 7d. If you consider that the d300 is not even in the list, and that the d700 must sell less than the d300 due to the price difference, it seems that the 5DII is dominating the FF market. The fact that the sales figures are similar to the cheaper 60D, it also shows the request of this camera.

I don't know if this is beyond Canon's expectation, but I am sure they are happy with the results.

With these sales figures, and the fact that the 5DII has video, while the D700 don't, Canon might delay th replacement, and allow Nikon to act first and improve the 5DIII final model accordingly....... maybe ?
 
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Canon 5D Mark II Team

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Jan said:
BJNY said:
Bob Howland said:
macfly said:
The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions.

I repeat my question - what is your basis for saying that? I'd like to see some data please.

Japanese 2010 System Camera Sales Analysis:
http://www.43rumors.com/japanaese-2010-system-camera-sales-analysis/
So that means, the 5DMkII sold well?


Extremely well.
 
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