5D MKIII and 100-400 II - Birdphotography advice please

[candyman]

Dear forumreaders


I need some advice.
I use the 5D MKIII and the 100-400 II for birdphotography.
But lately I struggle with the sharpness of pictures. Sometimes they are sharp and sometimes not. I checked and there is not an AFMA problem.


Here is one I did recently that seems ok regarding sharpness
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=1280.msg590544#msg590544


I think it is a combination of human error and not using the right settings. Let's talk about the settings


I connect my 100-400II to a gimbal (Jobu HD4). It is on a Gitzo tripod.
What would be the preferred settings for the 100-400 II on the lens itself?
(I use 'range:full', AF=on, stabilization=on and mode=3).


On my 5D MKIII I have set AF-On to 'metering and AF-start' and Af config tool: Case 2 with tracking=-1 and accel./decel.=-2 and AFptauto switching=-2. AIservo=1st image priority. Settings stored under C1.


Are my settings correct for:
photohut: 1m to 15 meter (still and in flight)

Hope you can point me in the correct direction. Friday and Saturday I will be again taking photos from a photohut

 

[candyman]

I really appreciate some feedback.
Thank you in advance

 

[John Strung]

Try not to use abbreviations and short forms in your post. What is AMFA? I also don't understand the reference to Photohut. Hard to answer a question when the reader does not understand it.

Unless your birds are really close, don't use full range for the autofocus. That will slow focussing down. Normally you would turn IS off when on a tripod, but with a gimballed tripod, it still might be useful. 3 is probably the right setting.
However, a gimballed tripod is probably overkill for a lens as short and light as the 100-400. I handhold mine. Most people who use gimballed tripods are using 500 f4's or 600's which are too heavy to handhold.

How many focus points are you using? If you are using too many, you may be focussing on something other than the bird. For stationary birds, use centre-point focussing.
For birds in flight, use the centre nine points or slightly more.

Also, are you cropping? Cropped photos are never as sharp as full frame. With birds you almost always have to crop. If you do, you need to sharpen in post processing, but be careful not to overdo it or your birds will look like the work of a bad taxidermist.

 

[John Strung]

Also, most birding photographers use back-button focus. If you are not already doing so, you should consider switching to back-button focus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3XwhOfnnQA

http://digital-photography-school.com/back-button-focus/

http://www.colesclassroom.com/back-button-focus-explained/

http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/4374/back-button-focus/

http://www.melissajill.com/blog.cfm?postID=1441

 

[privatebydesign]

Also, most birding photographers use back-button focus. If you are not already doing so, you should consider switching to back-button focus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3XwhOfnnQA

http://digital-photography-school.com/back-button-focus/

http://www.colesclassroom.com/back-button-focus-explained/

http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/4374/back-button-focus/

http://www.melissajill.com/blog.cfm?postID=1441

Or the better refined back button focus off technique, which leads to much lower thumb use.

 

[[email protected]]

Candyman, I think we need to know more to give you any decent advice. Specifically, if you could show us a couple examples of pictures you found problematic in sharpness, along with the settings used to take those pictures. That would let us really dig into some areas that might be useful. Without that, we could go into dozens of topics that won't help you.

The equipment and settings you mentioned sound fine for some conditions. Give us some pictures and settings, and we'll probably come up with some ideas.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

what shutter speeds are you using? Without knowing, providing solutions may be totally missing the boat.

The image you posted has all the information stripped. Was it shot in raw or jpeg? Camera settings?

I think you should get sharper images than the one you posted. Do not count on IS to give super sharp images, tiny birds moving a imperceptible amount will blur the image. Use 1/2000 sec with IS turned off and the tripod and head locked down tight. Use weight on the tripod under hook.

If your shutter speed is high and IS off, their may be other possibilities.

 

[candyman]

Try not to use abbreviations and short forms in your post. What is AMFA? I also don't understand the reference to Photohut. Hard to answer a question when the reader does not understand it.

Good point. I read this forum for a few years and think abbreviations are common understanding. But you are right, it is not. AFMA = Auto Focus Micro Adjustment is to set the focus correct (no front- or backfocus)

[quote author=John Strung]
Unless your birds are really close, don't use full range for the autofocus. That will slow focussing down.
[/quote]
In these photohuts (hidingplace) birds are approaching the hut to 1 meter close. I use '3m to inifinity' unless I decide to focus only on birds beyond 3 meter.

[quote author=John Strung]
Normally you would turn IS off when on a tripod, but with a gimballed tripod, it still might be useful. 3 is probably the right setting.
However, a gimballed tripod is probably overkill for a lens as short and light as the 100-400. I handhold mine. Most people who use gimballed tripods are using 500 f4's or 600's which are too heavy to handhold.
[/quote]
Sounds logical though handholding a gripped 5D MKIII and 100-400II from 7:00 AM until approx. 7:00 PM is a challenge for me

[quote author=John Strung]
How many focus points are you using? If you are using too many, you may be focussing on something other than the bird. For stationary birds, use centre-point focussing.
For birds in flight, use the centre nine points or slightly more.
[/quote]
I use single centre-point and 'Expand AF Area: Surround' (9 points) for birds in flight

[quote author=John Strung]
Also, are you cropping? Cropped photos are never as sharp as full frame. With birds you almost always have to crop. If you do, you need to sharpen in post processing, but be careful not to overdo it or your birds will look like the work of a bad taxidermist.
[/quote]
I do crop. Small birds are fast and good framing is a challenge - however I do take that challenge. When a predator is close, the birds are nervous and do not sit still.

 

[candyman]

Candyman, I think we need to know more to give you any decent advice. Specifically, if you could show us a couple examples of pictures you found problematic in sharpness, along with the settings used to take those pictures. That would let us really dig into some areas that might be useful. Without that, we could go into dozens of topics that won't help you.

The equipment and settings you mentioned sound fine for some conditions. Give us some pictures and settings, and we'll probably come up with some ideas.

The bird in my example was shot at iso 1600 (cloudy day) at 263mm with f7.1 and 1/1000
I try to keep up high shutter speeds but on a cloudy day it is a real challenge. ISO goes up very fast until even 25600.
I should be lucky tomorrow and saturday since those shall be sunny days.


Attached a photo. 8000 iso f7.1 and 1/800

 

[candyman]

what shutter speeds are you using? Without knowing, providing solutions may be totally missing the boat.

The image you posted has all the information stripped. Was it shot in raw or jpeg? Camera settings?

I think you should get sharper images than the one you posted. Do not count on IS to give super sharp images, tiny birds moving a imperceptible amount will blur the image. Use 1/2000 sec with IS turned off and the tripod and head locked down tight. Use weight on the tripod under hook.

If your shutter speed is high and IS off, their may be other possibilities.

I shoot only in raw.
Trying to keep shutter speeds from 1/800 (real cloudy day) up to 1/2000
My metering is spotmetering
Shooting AI servo continuous shooting(silent) - I ask myself if that influences the shutterpress and causes a very short delay compared to non-silent mode.

 

[Mario]

...

On my 5D MKIII I have set AF-On to 'metering and AF-start' and Af config tool: Case 2 with tracking=-1 and accel./decel.=-2 and AFptauto switching=-2. AIservo=1st image priority. Settings stored under C1.

...

Those are not ideal, certainly not for in flight shots.

This is what I use:

Tracking sensitivity: -2, put it as low as possible, you don't want the AF to switch to something that comes between you and the bird you're tracking.

Accel.decel.: I don't have -2, on my 5DIII it's 0,1,2. Put it on +2, you want it as high as possibly for flight shots as you want the AF to react as quick as possibly to the movement changes of the bird.

AF pt switching: again I have 0,1,2 as choices in my 5DIII, not -2. I use +2, keeping the AF points on a flying bird can be challenging, so you want the AF to switch points as quick as possible so the AF points stays on the bird. However, the downsite of using more AF points is that you might be focusing on a wingtip and the head might not be in focus. So if you can manage to use only 1 AF point and you are able to keep it on the head of the bird, that's a better choice.

Mario

 

[candyman]

Also, most birding photographers use back-button focus. If you are not already doing so, you should consider switching to back-button focus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3XwhOfnnQA

http://digital-photography-school.com/back-button-focus/

http://www.colesclassroom.com/back-button-focus-explained/

http://www.digital-photo-secrets.com/tip/4374/back-button-focus/

http://www.melissajill.com/blog.cfm?postID=1441

I use the AF-ON for some time now. It is set to 'Metering and AF start'
I am not sure if I use it different as is described in some of the information that I have read in the linked articles.

 

[candyman]

...

On my 5D MKIII I have set AF-On to 'metering and AF-start' and Af config tool: Case 2 with tracking=-1 and accel./decel.=-2 and AFptauto switching=-2. AIservo=1st image priority. Settings stored under C1.

...

Those are not ideal, certainly not for in flight shots.

This is what I use:

Tracking sensitivity: -2, put it as low as possible, you don't want the AF to switch to something that comes between you and the bird you're tracking.

Accel.decel.: I don't have -2, on my 5DIII it's 0,1,2. Put it on +2, you want it as high as possibly for flight shots as you want the AF to react as quick as possibly to the movement changes of the bird.

AF pt switching: again I have 0,1,2 as choices in my 5DIII, not -2. I use +2, keeping the AF points on a flying bird can be challenging, so you want the AF to switch points as quick as possible so the AF points stays on the bird. However, the downsite of using more AF points is that you might be focusing on a wingtip and the head might not be in focus. So if you can manage to use only 1 AF point and you are able to keep it on the head of the bird, that's a better choice.

Mario

Hello Mario,


That is my error. You are right. It is not minus but 0,1,2. As you mentioned.
So in the 3 settings I have mentioned it is: -1,0,0 compared to yours -2,2,2
I will give your settings a try tomorrow. Thank you for your explanation.

 

[candyman]

what shutter speeds are you using? Without knowing, providing solutions may be totally missing the boat.

The image you posted has all the information stripped. Was it shot in raw or jpeg? Camera settings?

I think you should get sharper images than the one you posted. Do not count on IS to give super sharp images, tiny birds moving a imperceptible amount will blur the image. Use 1/2000 sec with IS turned off and the tripod and head locked down tight. Use weight on the tripod under hook.

If your shutter speed is high and IS off, their may be other possibilities.

Thanks.
I mentioned some settings in my replies here. Are there some I have overlooked?

 

[bluenoser1993]

[quote author=John Strung]
Unless your birds are really close, don't use full range for the autofocus. That will slow focussing down.

"In these photohuts (hidingplace) birds are approaching the hut to 1 meter close. I use '3m to inifinity' unless I decide to focus only on birds beyond 3 meter."



Perhaps its a typo, but your statement implies you are using the focus limit switch backwards. You should be using 3m to infinity when you decide to focus on birds beyond 3 meters.

Also, don't forget that the minimum focus distance is only a little under 1m, and even then only at the 100mm end of the range. Perhaps the subject is getting too close in some cases.

 

[candyman]

[quote author=John Strung]
Unless your birds are really close, don't use full range for the autofocus. That will slow focussing down.

"In these photohuts (hidingplace) birds are approaching the hut to 1 meter close. I use '3m to inifinity' unless I decide to focus only on birds beyond 3 meter."



Perhaps its a typo, but your statement implies you are using the focus limit switch backwards. You should be using 3m to infinity when you decide too focus on birds beyond 3 meters.

Also, don't forget that the minimum focus distance is only a little under 1m, and even then only at the 100mm end of the range. Perhaps the subject is getting too close in some cases.

[/quote]
Yes, English is not my native language. I mean: I use 3m to infinity when I decide to focus on birds beyond 3 meters. Thank you for correcting me.

Although the birds come so close - even below 1 meter - I seldom shoot at that range. But 2 meter or even 1,5 meter, yes.

 

[[email protected]]

Candyman, when you are hitting ISO 8,000, I expect a little loss of sharpness due to the ISO itself. Things get a little muddier, especially if you are trying to fix noise in post production.

I think using such a small focusing area with bird in flight is non-optimal. It is very difficult to stay on target with one focus point and a few "helper" points around it. But I didn't see in that woodpecker picture any indication that you'd missed the focus a bit front or back, as the wood he's on doesn't get any sharper either in front or in back of him.

Wish I had more ideas to try out for you.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

[quote author=John Strung]
Unless your birds are really close, don't use full range for the autofocus. That will slow focussing down.

"In these photohuts (hidingplace) birds are approaching the hut to 1 meter close. I use '3m to inifinity' unless I decide to focus only on birds beyond 3 meter."

It is possible that your lens has a issue. Set it up 15m from a flat wall on your tripod, and take several images first setting the lens to MFD, and then several more setting the lens to infinity between each shot. If most of the images are not sharp, the lens could be damaged and then it needs a service man to check it. I'd show them your test shots.

Do the testing at ISO 100 if possible, with IS off and a fast shutter speed.

If the lens is hanging internally, it should become obvious.




Perhaps its a typo, but your statement implies you are using the focus limit switch backwards. You should be using 3m to infinity when you decide too focus on birds beyond 3 meters.

Also, don't forget that the minimum focus distance is only a little under 1m, and even then only at the 100mm end of the range. Perhaps the subject is getting too close in some cases.

Yes, English is not my native language. I mean: I use 3m to infinity when I decide to focus on birds beyond 3 meters. Thank you for correcting me.

Although the birds come so close - even below 1 meter - I seldom shoot at that range. But 2 meter or even 1,5 meter, yes.
[/quote]