5DIV price confirmed

[kaihp]

Eldar: you can save a whopping ~900NOK by buying the 5D4 in Denmark. Almost enough to pay for the boat trip to Copenhagen ;D

I travel to the US often enough, so I can buy it there, but that is not the issue.
[...]
And I hate being ripped off.

Apologies for not putting the /sarcasm tag in there, Eldar.
I'm totally with you on hating getting ripped off.

 

[Maiaibing]

...
You can actually avoid Global Blue etc. and get 100% refund directly from the shops just check with the shops before you buy - I travel globally and do it all the time. Can make buying stuff in Europe cheaper than the US. That's in fact how I landed a "cheap" 5DS/R (+also a good discount).

Are you willing to share the names of a few European stores that you've done this successfully with?

Almost all Danish and Swedish web shops. Just drop them a mail first and ask before you place your order. Goecker.dk is one (rarely the cheapest). They need a custom's stamp on your invoice from the customs office at the airport. Invoice should have your passport number and address outside of the EU on it - but you can write that yourself.

 

[Diko]

Sorry will ask here as well?

1/ Do you onow a decent european grey market reseller?
Or
2/ Is it truth I can purchase from ttbe states and ask to deliver to London and not paying VAT (Subject to some agreenment)?

 

[Eldar]

Eldar: you can save a whopping ~900NOK by buying the 5D4 in Denmark. Almost enough to pay for the boat trip to Copenhagen ;D

I travel to the US often enough, so I can buy it there, but that is not the issue.
[...]
And I hate being ripped off.

Apologies for not putting the /sarcasm tag in there, Eldar.
I'm totally with you on hating getting ripped off.

My fault, I should have read your post better

However, to import instead of buying locally is not a bad idea. If I order it from the US, B&H or any of the others, pay for shipment and all taxes, I will save NOK5.000/$600 ... It is as if Canon has missed the fact that web shopping is international ...

 

[Mikehit]

Sorry will ask here as well?

1/ Do you onow a decent european grey market reseller?
Or
2/ Is it truth I can purchase from ttbe states and ask to deliver to London and not paying VAT (Subject to some agreenment)?

I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.
I don't know how quickly they get hold of new models, though.

There are some operations that are based overseas (often Hong Kong/China) and any UK address is simply a drop box for show. They send the camera without paying the VAT and if customs spot it the seller pays it on your behalf. Other wise they rely on enough getting through to maintain their profit margins. If you ask for a VAT invoice you often get a woolly reply that sidesteps the issue.

Regards buying from US, whenever I have done so I have got a bill for import duty and VAT. IIRC the VAT is payable by the importer and whenever I have done it the courier will not release from customs until it is paid.
Commercial goods and services can be subject to a 'reverse charge' agreement where tax is not payable to the seller (based in this case in the US) but I don't think is relevant. Unless you get solid advice to the contrary I would work on the assumption that customs will invoice you.

 

[Diko]

Sorry will ask here as well?

1/ Do you onow a decent european grey market reseller?
Or
2/ Is it truth I can purchase from ttbe states and ask to deliver to London and not paying VAT (Subject to some agreenment)?

I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.
I don't know how quickly they get hold of new models, though.

There are some operations that are based overseas (often Hong Kong/China) and any UK address is simply a drop box for show. They send the camera without paying the VAT and if customs spot it the seller pays it on your behalf. Other wise they rely on enough getting through to maintain their profit margins. If you ask for a VAT invoice you often get a woolly reply that sidesteps the issue.

Regards buying from US, whenever I have done so I have got a bill for import duty and VAT. IIRC the VAT is payable by the importer and whenever I have done it the courier will not release from customs until it is paid.
Commercial goods and services can be subject to a 'reverse charge' agreement where tax is not payable to the seller (based in this case in the US) but I don't think is relevant. Unless you get solid advice to the contrary I would work on the assumption that customs will invoice you.

One big Thanks for the complete answer!

 

[Viggo]

If I wanted the 5d4 and the 16-35 III, it's 8100 USD here in Norway. That's harsh

 

[Diko]

I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.

Do you happened to know if they have some Black Friday additional off the prices?

Should I wait or order right away?

 

[Bennymiata]

In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.

 

[Ian_of_glos]

In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.

The price difference cannot be explained just by the addition of VAT.
In the UK the rate of VAT is 20% - so based on the US price of $3,499 for the 5D mk4 the price with VAT should be around $4,200 US Dollars.
In the UK we are being charged £3,599 for the camera, which is equivalent to around $4,755 US dollars. So why the additional $555 on top of the price that is charged in the USA?
I seem to remember the same thing happened when the 200-400 F4 was announced. The price in the US was $11,000 and the price in the UK was £11,000. However it reduced after a few months.
So my advice to anyone living in the UK or Europe who wants to buy a 5D mk4 is to wait and see. I am optimistic that the price will drop to a more reasonable level before long.

 

[Flamingtree]

In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.

Which shop is that?

 

[GMCPhotographics]

In the UK, all the retailers will sell at the RRP. Canon usually hikes up the RRP in the UK, assuming the retailers will discount from that price. But the retailers will initially sell at full RRP because of the low initial supply from Canon. I think the logic goes something like this...I have 10 buyers for a 1D4, but Canon will only supply one per week. The 10 buyers will go to who ever has stock...so why discount. Having stock is a certain sale at RRP anyhow. As soon as every shop has copies on their shelves and the initial commotion is over, then the retailers have to start to discount to attract buyers. Ie...the shop down the road is selling one for 5% less...can you price match or do better? So the real price doesn't stabilise until the retailers have stock sitting on their shelves for a few weeks. I think that'll be around January / February time.

 

[LukasS]

In Poland big retailers have the item on preorder for 4600 USD (incl. 23% VAT). It seems Polish are wealthier than most.

 

[Mikehit]

I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.

Do you happened to know if they have some Black Friday additional off the prices?

Should I wait or order right away?

I've never seen a Black Friday sale on their site but that does not mean they don't have them.

The staff are very helpful so it may be worth asking them when they expect to get the 5D4.

 

[tron]

I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.

Do you happened to know if they have some Black Friday additional off the prices?

Should I wait or order right away?

I've never seen a Black Friday sale on their site but that does not mean they don't have them.

The staff are very helpful so it may be worth asking them when they expect to get the 5D4.

I have bought some from them in the past. But now I see that for 5DsR they increase the price all the time. It went from 2299 to 2399 to 2449. Plus the price of pound has been steadied/increased a little. On the other hand other products do not increase in price. So I refuse to take part in this rally. But yes they are trustworthy.

 

[davidmurray]

...
Canon USA has to pay for all the local employee salaries, benefits, insurance, buildings, USA federal and state taxes, warranty repair, local marketing, local legal and accounting services, and distribution.

on top of that retailers have to pay for employees, advertising, taxes,etc,etc.

did you think all that was no cost?

I think you're not reading what I'm writing. As I said before, it is Canon's job to minimize all of this - these costs aren't my problem, they're Canon's (and/or the retailer's.) I couldn't care less if Canon outsourced its legal and accounting to India.

It is save to believe that this is exactly what they do where it is useful to keep costs low. However, they would be completely insane if they gave the savings away via price reductions. Price is determined to be as high as economically useful depening on price sensitivity/elasticity (not a low as possible). You're confusing capitalism with the other concept, the red one...

I wasn't aware that "concepts" were based on colour.

Please do tell us what this red "concept" is, without foaming or otherwise dragging this down into the political sewer. (which is banned here)

I accept that Canon is acting to protect higher prices in the market by restricting who can advertise the price of Canon products.

We know the public thinks those prices are too high by the mere fact that most retailers selling Canon cameras don't stock full frame cameras. Only certain outlets do that.

Just try getting a full frame Canon or Nikon camera from JB HIFI or Noel Learning or Bond and Bond. They sell plenty of cameras, but do not stock 5D, 6D, or 1D variants.

Those are the shops that most consumers are likely to first go to when looking to buy consumer electronics (which is what all these cameras are).

If the retail price here doesn't come down to a realistic price for a camera body then I'll most likely buy from a grey market importer. I mean, the likelihood of the camera failing within the warranty period is low, and I don't NEED to replace my low mileage 5D3.

The price differential is significant, and I cannot justify the additional cost just to get a local Canon warranty when the Consumer Guarantees Act requires that the goods be fit for purpose and I'll be within my rights to take it back to the grey market shop I bought it from.

 

[Teknon]

I got an email from canon Australia with the following local prices:

EOS 5D Mark IV, body only, AUD$5,699.00 = US$4,310.52
Body with EF 24-70 f2.8L II USM lens, AUD$8,399.00 = US$6,352.72

They are marking up the price of the body by US$800 over the USA price.

I am disgusted, and not surprised they have a grey import problem.

 

[neuroanatomist]

From a consumer perspective, if Canon can find ways to save money and lower costs then I expect that to be reflected in lower prices of their goods.

Having that expectation is your prerogative. However, Canon's expecations about what should be done with any savings from lower costs likely differ from yours, and since Canon sets the prices for their products, your personal expectations are totally meaningless to anyone but you.

 

[deadwrong]

4600$ in Canada.

3200 for 5dmark3 - hmmm....

Guess i will be watching the 6dii speculation thread.

 

[Eldar]

From a consumer perspective, if Canon can find ways to save money and lower costs then I expect that to be reflected in lower prices of their goods.

Having that expectation is your prerogative. However, Canon's expecations about what should be done with any savings from lower costs likely differ from yours, and since Canon sets the prices for their products, your personal expectations are totally meaningless to anyone but you.

Since we´re not following the "red" model, where the price of a product is a direct reflection of the cost to produce, we have to live in a market driven model. When Apple launch a new iPhone, what happens to the price? The previous model drops and the new is introduced at a much higher price. Does that have anything to do with Apple´s cost of producing and distributing? Of course not. The base logic in Canon´s case is no different.

However, Apple is pricing their products pretty equally around the globe. In Norway, the difference to a US price (ex tax) is the VAT, +/- a currency fluctuation buffer. The problem with Canon is that they are using massive price differences around the globe, which I do not accept. But all I can do is to be loud and clear about my discontent and not buy. If enough people did that, especially the "not buy" thing, Canon may listen and do something about it. I am not very optimistic though.