CanonOregon

Having fun with what I have to shoot with now.
Sep 12, 2012
39
0
Oregon
I can understand the feeling, more about not wanting to 'side grade' my lenses into 'R' mounts. I did a presentation at PMA more than 20 years ago about where camera phones would wind up being a 'go to camera' for the masses. I don't think may of the members in that group got what it would do to 'printing and processing' business, even more that digital cameras would do for the masses...but it happened. Kodak stuck their head in the sand, even thinking an LCD 'preview' screen on the back of APS film cameras would hold off digital for a while- nope, and where's Kodak today? Yes, in less than two years I'll bet EVF with match OVF- and with the advantages of metering and focus with a mirrorless design, they will take over. Plus, smaller bodies and shorter, lighter lenses. At my age I'll probably stick with my dSLRs but the future for sure is mirrorless. And it will be amazing, give it time.
 

jprusa

EOS RP
Apr 29, 2013
389
61
I'm waiting for, um, probably Sony to introduce a mirrorless camera that you can watch NetFlix in the EVF and have a keypad on the back screen to text with....the youngun's will eat that model up!!!!!
I tried the Sony shooting birds a couple of times , as I was watching this bird in the EVF I couldn't help but to remember my mother telling me don't sit so close to that TV. LOL
 
May 17, 2019
6
0
My G-series cameras are mirrorless. The G5X II even has a popup EVF. But I don't plan to replace my DSLRs with IL mirrorless cameras. I don't want to give up an OVF unless I'm using something that fits in my pocket.

Is there some reason you feel that the 5DS or SR don't meet your needs?
Mainly that it is out dated.
 
May 17, 2019
6
0
I've only been taking photos heavily for maybe 3-4 years, and it still took me MONTHS to adjust to an EVF. There was a long time where I just felt disconnected from what was going on in front of me when using the EOS R. Definitely just felt like watching TV vs actually seeing what was happening in front of me.

From my experience adjusting to an EVF is absolutely not something you can do just trying a camera out in a store or even renting it, even for a few weeks. You just have to take the plunge, and then stick with it until it feels right, even when you just want your flappy mirror back.

I can't really explain it, but I think my brain just got re-wired. The EVF doesn't feel weird anymore. It feels just as natural and connected as a DSLR now. And I also really appreciate having my exposure settings immediately affecting what I see in the viewfiinder in real time. I miss that when going back to a DSLR now.

However one thing I will admit is that seeing the scene in the EVF can be a little misleading at times, especially in low light situations. The EVF by its nature is a backlit display. So very dark areas might tend to look brighter than they will really come through in the photo itself. This is especially true if you have your EVF brightness set too high. You need to keep an eye on the histogram, which is conveniently also available in the EVF.
Thanks for mentioning one of the problems I have with EVF's.
 
May 17, 2019
6
0
Hi Mike27713!

I can understand your argumentation and I partly feel the same, but ...

Never say "Never!".

THIS 100% is it.

And this is the reason why we haven't seen an 1DX equvalent MILC camera yet. Because Canon knows that people like you are not pleased yet.
I've tried several EVFs (Canon, Oly, Pana, Sony; but haven't tried the a9 or Nikon Z yet) and found that they are okay, but not more.
Right now I'd take an OVF for sports, action, wildlife, kids a thousand times over the EVF.
And right now I would gladly welcome a "5Dmk5" over an "EOS R5".

But with time that'll change. And you should choose that tool today that fits your needs today best.
But know that within a few years EVFs will become much better than they are yet.
So never say "Never!" but stay with OVF as long as it is the better solution for you - as it is for me today.

I hope you feel better now after your little rant.
And maybe you can see, that "hate" is a too strong emotion for this little problem and you can accept that others here also have some kind of "aversion".
Hate, is definitely the word. I will say never for as long as I possibly can. I have never had a problem with any of my OVF's, but sure have had problems with my TV's. Thanks for the response though.
 
May 17, 2019
6
0
Camera manufacturers respond to sales. The fact is that mirrorless sales income has increased while DSLR sales income has dropped to 55% of last year. If you want to be in business, you make what sells. Right now, we are in a period where the customer can influence which products will be made and sold, but the answer is pretty clear and unless it turns around, DSLR's will be gone sooner than I thought.

Each type of camera has its pros and cons, A optical viewfinder is great in bright light, usable in moderate light, but worthless in near dark. Phase Detect AF is fast, but accuracy is a problem that costs a lot of $$ to keep tuned up. DPAF is accurate at all focal lengths and apertures. Manual focus is still the most accurate, but slow.

In the final analysis, photographers will vote with their pocketbooks, and the technical specs don't matter at all.

I think they may already have voted.

When compared to this time last year, sales quantities of DSLR's are only 64% while mirrorless are at 86%.

But when looking at sales values, DSLR's are at 55% while Mirrorless sales values are up at 104%.

As a businessman, I'd definitely go with products where my sales income is up to 104% rather than down to 55%, but for now, its possible to make and sell both at a profit. It may not be possible to make DSLR's at a profit when sales drops to 10% of 2017. At very best, just profitible models would be made.

You can follow sales of cameras at CIPA.

Pretty obvious that Mirrorless is up in sales. DSLR's have been around longer. You are kinda making my point about why manufacturers are pushing mirrorless. And the public (smart or not) is buying it. The TV is just another thing to break in the camera.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,305
301
Thank you for this...I'm definitely getting an M6 II as soon as I give up hope of there being an M5 II. (I've got EF->EF-M adapters on the way. I found them cheap enough I can just pick my favorite EF lenses and park adapters on them.)
it appears that the RP crossing into a M5 mark whatever price territory fast enough now and is small enough to qualify for a travel friendly camera with an added benefit of great low light ability (ISO 1800 and higher). I must have an EVF and a hot shoe. so i guess it is shaping up as a plan: buy RP + some unique RF glass, sell one of my 5D IV. sell my 24-70/2.8, buy 28-70/2.0, shoot events with RP + 28-70/2.0 and second camera 5D IV + 70-200/2.8. use RP as a travel camera, portraiture, studio work where timing isn't an issue. use 5D IV for a faster action( whatever) with a longer glass. any thoughts?
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
1,305
301
I'm waiting for, um, probably Sony to introduce a mirrorless camera that you can watch NetFlix in the EVF and have a keypad on the back screen to text with....the youngun's will eat that model up!!!!!
oh, did you miss the Google Card Box?


 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,577
679
Southeastern USA
I'm enjoying my R, but it sure ain't for action photography. It's great for portraits, wonderful for landscape and macro, and seems like it will have a place at events. But no matter the settings, the EVF distracts once the subject is moving.

Regarding "hate." It's a perfectly good word to describe a feeling for a person, place, thing, or ideology. I'd hate, hate, hate to see "hate" banned from the English language, or lead to the shaming of those who use the word "hate." Let me say it again: I'd hate to see the word "hate" banned. And I'd hate to see mandatory lobotomies or chemical equivalents for those who feel the normal emotion of hatred.

In fact, I hate haters of free speech!

And sometimes I get drunk and pick up a lens I'm not really attracted to. Then I hate myself in the morning.

Thank you.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,519
748
Yes, in less than two years I'll bet EVF with match OVF- and with the advantages of metering and focus with a mirrorless design, they will take over. Plus, smaller bodies and shorter, lighter lenses. At my age I'll probably stick with my dSLRs but the future for sure is mirrorless. And it will be amazing, give it time.
EVF's have been around since at least the mid1980's when I bought a Videocamcorder with one. That's been about 45 years, probably more. While they have improved and have switched to liquid crystal and maybe oled in some cases, there has not been a lot of improvement over the last few years, its been incremental. What makes you believe that a sudden miracle will happen to improve a mature technology so drastically?
 
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wsciutti

I'm New Here
Aug 19, 2019
9
4
I wanted to try the lighted focus spot as on the 5d4 my old eyes can track a player just fine but the focus points (5) are hard to see. Also, the lighter weight appealed to me which means with the 70-200 2.8 I will use tonight the combination GC (center of gravity - I am an old pilot) will be forward so I'll use a mono-pod. My experience with the 5d has been that 12800 ISO is about as high as I would like to go and I do use auto ISO. I tried a test on a moving car with little ambient light Thursday and, indeed, I could see the lighted focus point (spot) just fine.
Tonight will be an interesting test, both for noise and how well I track a running back or safety. Will let you know tomorrow how well the little camera performs. naturally, the 5d is my backup.

Thanks for your reply and input.

Jack

Oh, I forgot - the 1.6 crop gives me a 2.8 320 2.8 so I will have additional reach.
Well, it appears
Michael, I agree so I will see how it goes. Testing thus far has been fine with the EVF and I may even try just the screen tonight at the game.
Jack
 

wsciutti

I'm New Here
Aug 19, 2019
9
4
Well, it appears
My bad folks. It appears, based on last night and a test I just ran, that at ISO 25600 there is no comparison between the M62 and the 5D4 as far as noise is concerned. All shots taken with 70-200 f2.8 at 2.8 reveal that the full frame sensor on the 5d far outshines the M6, the M6 being unusable. So, all night football games I shoot will be with the 5d, allowing it to go to 25600 as necessary. I will also try the 70-300, which I have not done, just lower the shutter speed a bit. have also found that 7.5 frames/sec is more than adequate.
Thanks for listening and responding.

J
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
My bad folks. It appears, based on last night and a test I just ran, that at ISO 25600 there is no comparison between the M62 and the 5D4 as far as noise is concerned. All shots taken with 70-200 f2.8 at 2.8 reveal that the full frame sensor on the 5d far outshines the M6, the M6 being unusable. So, all night football games I shoot will be with the 5d, allowing it to go to 25600 as necessary. I will also try the 70-300, which I have not done, just lower the shutter speed a bit. have also found that 7.5 frames/sec is more than adequate.
Thanks for listening and responding.

J
I'm still trying to understand why you need to push to ISO 25600? What Tv and Av are you using?
 

wsciutti

I'm New Here
Aug 19, 2019
9
4
I'm still trying to understand why you need to push to ISO 25600? What Tv and Av are you using?
I'm was using M, 1/1000 shutter, f2.8, AI Servo/ High FPS. However, I was knocked on my ass by a ref (my bad) and the lens is broken. With the lighting and the fact that I will be using the 70-300 4.5 - 5.6 I'm just guessing that it will take 25600. Any different ideas appreciated. Perhaps a lower shutter speed?

Thank you.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
348
197
Yeah! Especially at 8 decades of age, I really did not expect to get up!!!
I hope you recover (if you haven't already)...and I hope you can replace that lens.

Hypothetically, would the M6II be an option, with that lens?
 

wsciutti

I'm New Here
Aug 19, 2019
9
4
I hope you recover (if you haven't already)...and I hope you can replace that lens.

Hypothetically, would the M6II be an option, with that lens?
Actually, I was using the M6II with the adapter when the collision occurred. The lens is insured and a claim filed.
The combo is forward heavy, so I was using a mono-pod. The image I posted was taken with this combo prior to the "Let's give it all" for the high school, LOL. I do think that the M6II ISO should not be above 12800 and preferably not above 6400. I was able to reduce the noise with some post, I use Photoscape X Prof.
Thank you for the thoughts.

EXIF: M6Mark2, 1/1000,ISO 12800/ 0EV/ 14FPS/ Canon 70-200 f2.8 non-stabilized/ image before the ref and I occupied the same space!
 

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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Actually, I was using the M6II with the adapter when the collision occurred. The lens is insured and a claim filed.
The combo is forward heavy, so I was using a mono-pod. The image I posted was taken with this combo prior to the "Let's give it all" for the high school, LOL. I do think that the M6II ISO should not be above 12800 and preferably not above 6400. I was able to reduce the noise with some post, I use Photoscape X Prof.
Thank you for the thoughts.

EXIF: M6Mark2, 1/1000,ISO 12800/ 0EV/ 14FPS/ Canon 70-200 f2.8 non-stabilized/ image before the ref and I occupied the same space!
I guess I'm very lucky in the places where I shoot. I typically shoot at ISO 3200, f/2.8, and about 1/800 to 1/1250 depending on the stadium. I might kick it up to ISO 5000 or ISO 6400 near the end zones, which tend to be a bit darker (with a shift to f/3.2 or 1/3 stop shorter Tv if needed to avoid going too far - I never use the "+1/3 stop" ISO settings due to the way Canon cameras handle the non "full stop" ISO settings). At those settings the white jerseys are right on the verge of blowing the highlights.
 

Ian_of_glos

EOS RP
Jun 12, 2012
246
28
England
Might you consider buying some faster glass for poor lighting situations?

Just a thought....

HTH,

C
Buying a faster lens is something I have considered many times, but what makes me hesitate is the size, weight and cost of fast telephoto primes. My preferred lens is the Canon 400mm F2.8. The problem is that it costs £11,000 and weighs almost 3Kg. Also I would lose the flexibility of my 100-400 zoom.
In good light the 100-400 works very well and it is only in December and January that the results are not quite what I was hoping for.
The clubs that publish my work don't seem to notice the noise in my high ISO shots and in fact one club chairman said he thought it added to the atmosphere of the occasion.