85mm f/1.2L II or 85mm f/1.4L IS?

[Ozarker]

From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

 

[rs]

There are several L lens overlaps - two 16-35's, two 24-70's, four 70-200's, and then of course primes with two 300's and two 400'

 

[bholliman]

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion. Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement. I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.

 

[Viggo]

I'm not in the market for the 85 f1.2, have had it and don't like it, but the 85 f1.4 L is HIGHLY interesting, also because of IS, I'm struggling a bit with shakey hands so the 135 I have is borderline what I can use at all. I guess there are more people like that wants epic IQ and IS that doesn't consider the f1.2.

 

[BeenThere]

The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

 

[jolyonralph]

The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

The recent tour of the L lens production plant in Japan was quite revealing. It seems that as long as the tools and jigs are available for production of the lenses they can knock out pretty much any of their lenses on demand - it's not a matter of needing to produce 1000 at a time and then keeping them in storage (and as everyone knows, keeping lenses in long term storage is not something anyone wants to do.) As long as they don't run out of the injection moulded parts (which I'm sure they have plenty of) I see no reason why they won't continue to knock out 85 1.2s for as long as people want to buy them.

And the only reason that I wouldn't want to buy a new 85mm f/1.2L II is that I already have one. If it died I'd probably buy another rather than a 1.4 - unless the 1.4 happens to have as good background blur and colour rendition as the 1.2 - which I doubt.

As for the 85 1.4 refresh, I do hope that comes next after the 135mm refresh, but I suspect we're more likely to see a 200mm f/2.8L IS after that.

Canon don't seem to have any interest recently in updating their "Semi-pro" non L lenses. The 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 are sorely in need of an upgrade, but I am assuming that for economic reasons they're concentrating on the L lenses for now.

 

[georgecpappas]

I would suggest that you rent an 85mm 1.2 and a sigma 85mm 1.4 Art as examples of what to expect before making your decision.

I have an 85mm 1.2 and love it..both for portraits and landscapes. At 1.2, the separation and rendition is beautiful; you don't need crisp corners. Stopped down, I have found it equal to the Zeiss Milvus and Sigma 85mm art both of which I rented and tested side-by-side.

The AF is not fast which is OK for portraits and landscapes; I did not find the Sigma 85mm ART AF speed to be that much faster though it is a very nice lens.

My guess is that the size of the glass elements make IS a real challenge though I don't know this..Sigma doesn't have it either and they do at other focal lengths.

while I suspect the 85mm 1.2 is due for another upgrade at some point, the number of users is small enough that they will wait awhile until we have 100mp sensors.....just a joke.

 

[BeenThere]

The f1.2 is a special lens that only a small percentage of photographers will want or ever buy. My guess is that Canon has probably stopped building new copies and will sell off existing stock over several years. Then, after several more years as a demand slowly builds, they may introduce a v3, or it may fade into legend.

The recent tour of the L lens production plant in Japan was quite revealing. It seems that as long as the tools and jigs are available for production of the lenses they can knock out pretty much any of their lenses on demand - it's not a matter of needing to produce 1000 at a time and then keeping them in storage (and as everyone knows, keeping lenses in long term storage is not something anyone wants to do.) As long as they don't run out of the injection moulded parts (which I'm sure they have plenty of) I see no reason why they won't continue to knock out 85 1.2s for as long as people want to buy them.

And the only reason that I wouldn't want to buy a new 85mm f/1.2L II is that I already have one. If it died I'd probably buy another rather than a 1.4 - unless the 1.4 happens to have as good background blur and colour rendition as the 1.2 - which I doubt.

As for the 85 1.4 refresh, I do hope that comes next after the 135mm refresh, but I suspect we're more likely to see a 200mm f/2.8L IS after that.

Canon don't seem to have any interest recently in updating their "Semi-pro" non L lenses. The 50 1.4 and 85 1.8 are sorely in need of an upgrade, but I am assuming that for economic reasons they're concentrating on the L lenses for now.

Some parts can't be economically produced in small quantities after a time. That is why Canon cannot repair some discontinued lenses.

 

[YuengLinger]

Would this be the quintessential example of a First World Problem? :

 

[Ozarker]

Would this be the quintessential example of a First World Problem? :

Let's talk about that over a case of Yuengling.

But, yeah it would be.

 

[ahsanford]

From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

1) Yes, it will be L. That was a CR3 here some time ago.

2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective. This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

3) I would be stunned to no end if this was a middle price point move. It will be L, so it will be pricey.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

The [85 f/1.2L II] AF is not fast which is OK for portraits and landscapes; I did not find the Sigma 85mm ART AF speed to be that much faster though it is a very nice lens.

^^ This is one area they surely will improve. ^^ The 85 f/1.2L II has got to be one the slowest focusers in the L line.

I see the 85 f/1.4L IS doing the following over the f/1.2L II...

• Get much sharper throughout the frame to keep up with more recent Otus/Art sort of offerings (a certainty)
  
  
• Get proper fast USM AF for event photographers, photojournos, etc. who don't want to miss a shot (a certainty)
  
  
• Kill the focus by wire (hopefully)
  
  
• I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens? Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit? (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

Notice 'get lighter' is not on that list. Both The Otus and Art lenses have more groups/elements and weigh more than the f/1.2L II. Expect a big and stout lens.

- A

 

[LordofTackle]

• • I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens? Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit? (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

  
  - A

  
  Not a video person either, so: what's declickability??
  
  -Sebastian

 

[ahsanford]

• I am not a video person, but as the first L 'standard' prime with IS, might there be an option to declick the lens? Nicer lenses from Zeiss have offered a manual declickability -- perhaps Canon follows suit? (Or will they try to protect pricier Cine lens offerings and withhold this feature?)

- A

Not a video person either, so: what's declickability??

-Sebastian

https://thecinelens.com/2010/04/27/what-is-de-clicking-and-why-do-i-need-it/

(In fairness, for this new 85L to sing for videographers, it would need an aperture ring to declick, would it not? That's more a 3rd party lens move than Canon EF, one would think.)

- A

 

[Ozarker]

From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

1) Yes, it will be L. That was a CR3 here some time ago.

2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective. This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

- A

Yeah, it was and is CR3, but that could still be wrong.

I can absolutely see it being sharper, but I'm not too sure there would be much difference in bokeh unless in this case bokeh means the whole image must be inherently softer throughout. In that case bokeh just means soft. I think an image can have a tack sharp subject and still be a beast when it comes to bokeh. I hope so anyway.

I have to wonder whether or not this has more to do with overstock of 85 f/1.2L II needing to get sold while introducing a competing model with BR and IS. From what I understand the CA is horrible with the 85 f/1.2L II.

I predict a huge price drop on the 85 f/1.2L II within 6 months of this new lens introduction (Christmas?). Then, discontinuance a year later.

The choice between the two lenses will boil down to superior performance vs very discounted price. I think the new lens is going to murder the old one quickly even with a much higher price once the old lens is discounted.

 

[smicka]

Personally, I would prefer the 85 f/1.4L IS assuming it has BR. My favorite lens at the moment is the 35 f/1.4 II - CA control is out of this world amazing and sharpness is just WOW. Seeing those improvements (or at least BR for CA) in the new 85 would be a dream come true.

I can't stand CA; although the 85 f/1.2L II is great the CA is a deal breaker for me. IS on the new 85 would be great for super-low light (weddings / receptions when shooting dual cameras equipped with primes). IS would be icing on the cake for stills but very very nice for video. I currently shoot with 85 f/1.8 (begrudgingly as it is a CA monster) and can't wait to upgrade when the new 85 comes out.

I'm also hoping the 85 f/1.4L IS is more of a 35 f/1.4 II than a 35 f/2 IS in terms of build quality.

 

[meywd]

From what I think I have read, we may have a choice between two different 85mm L models in the near future. Or, maybe the soon to be announced 85mm f/1.4L IS won't be an L at all, but a lens that sort of bridges the gap between the 85 f/1.8 and the 85 f/1.2L II in the same way the 50 f/1.4 does for that focal length.

Is there really room for two 85mm L lenses?

The reason I ask is I think I have also read that this new 85 will not replace the 85mm f/1.2L II in the lineup.

We'll know soon enough, but I am left wondering what you fine folks think.

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

1) Yes, it will be L. That was a CR3 here some time ago.

2) All bets would be on this thing mopping the floor with the current f/1.2L II from a sharpness perspective. This would appear to be the Otus/Art-level super resolver, while the f/1.2L II will remain the bokeh beast.

- A

Yeah, it was and is CR3, but that could still be wrong.

I can absolutely see it being sharper, but I'm not too sure there would be much difference in bokeh unless in this case bokeh means the whole image must be inherently softer throughout. In that case bokeh just means soft. I think an image can have a tack sharp subject and still be a beast when it comes to bokeh. I hope so anyway.

I have to wonder whether or not this has more to do with overstock of 85 f/1.2L II needing to get sold while introducing a competing model with BR and IS. From what I understand the CA is horrible with the 85 f/1.2L II.

I predict a huge price drop on the 85 f/1.2L II within 6 months of this new lens introduction (Christmas?). Then, discontinuance a year later.

The choice between the two lenses will boil down to superior performance vs very discounted price. I think the new lens is going to murder the old one quickly even with a much higher price once the old lens is discounted.

Well if you want ultimate sharpness, ultimate bokeh, IS and AF, then it would cost like a super white, the Otus 85mm f1.4 costs more than 4k and is manual focus, how much would Canon charge for the ultimate beast?

 

[Sabaki]

No matter how great, no matter how legendary the 85 f/1.2 L is, there comes a time for Canon to set new standards and benchmarks.

I really do hope that they will release a version II of the /1.2 but the new 85 f/1.4 IS has to set the industry standard for an 85mm. It has to outperform the f/1.2 version for everything outside of bokeh or there is no progress and signs of what is to come.

Price...it'd be brilliant if it's priced like the 16-35 f/4.0 L IS was at launch but irrespective of that, the lens will sell and even those who complain of the price may end up with a copy in their bags

 

[Ozarker]

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion. Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement. I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.

Yes, and with the BR element also. I did not realize BR wasn't being used in all new lenses.

 

[[email protected]]

Will there be two 85mm L lenses?

Both the EF 85mm f/1.8 and EF 85mm f/1.2L II are really in need of a refresh in my opinion. Zeiss, Sigma, Tamron and Samyang have all introduced excellent new lenses in this focal length for the EF mount in the past few years, and the Canon offerings are looking dated by comparison.

I hope Canon decides to add IS to the 85mm f/1.8 replacement. I'd love to see a new L as well, with similar quality to the excellent EF 35mm f/1.4L II.

Yes, and with the BR element also. I did not realize BR wasn't being used in all new lenses.

They have not been using the Blue Goo (formerly BR) technology in all new releases. I owned the 35 II, and indeed it was something to behold. But the Blue Goo is merely a tool, and sometimes a lens design requires different tools.

With all of the new 85mm lenses released recently, it is very possible that Canon's won't be the best. It is almost certain that if it is the best, it won't be by terribly much, as the field of competitors is simply stunning. I would not begrudge any fellow photographer their choice from among Tamron, Sigma, Zeiss, and - soon - Canon.