A Bit More About the New “Big White” Lenses Coming from Canon [CR3]

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,873
1,197
Canada
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

CanonFanBoy said:
YuengLinger said:
There will be two FF mounts. They will exist together for a time. And then there will be one.

Time frame? No idea.

So, quite a while before "I told you so!" from either side of the question.
When? 2030? 2040? Not anytime soon unless these updates are to make a mount change on the lens easier. Pretty safe bet you made there... or maybe not.
It is based on the assumption that when Canon goes mirrorless that they will both discontinue (eventually) mirrored cameras and that the new mount will be a much shorter distance... This assumption may not be correct.

The advantage of a smaller body is that you have a smaller body.

The disadvantages of a smaller body are less space for battery (no LP-6 compatibility), less space for controls, greatly changed balance, poor ergonomics, lesser quality optics, loss of legacy glass coupled with a need to make a whole new line of new glass, and that the general public perceives small bodies as not professional cameras, and that when you include lenses into your kit both kits are essentially the same size.... This seems like throwing away all the advantages Canon has, to compete against an established product on their terms, and risk alienating most of their current user base to do so.


Canon said it was going to be an elegant solution....Throwing out everything to start again is not an elegant solution.... an elegant solution would be to keep the existing mount and upgrading the firmware/hardware on new lenses/cameras to accept a higher speed camera/lens data pipe and more lens computing power to give better AF and IS performance..... and allow you to mount crop lenses on the FF camera. The elegant solution could also include a dock like sigma and Tamron to reprogram lenses (or use a tethered body) to adjust lens parameters......
 
Reactions: Michael Clark

Trigger

I'm New Here
Jul 3, 2018
15
3
Canada
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Unless the price is exorbitant, I'll be buying a 500 III instantly, so how long does one have to wait for actual availability after official announcement - or does it really vary, and unknowable?
 

scottkinfw

Wildlife photography is my passion
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Maiaibing said:
Maiaibing said:
Could not justify buying the 300mm f/2.8 IS L II on its improved optics over the original (although the arrival of the 5DS/R did move the post a little). However, it did bring some other advantages; better handling, lower weight, IS mode III, a much more silent IS motor etc. that I have valued.

Think it will prove very, very to justify buying a possible 300mm f/2.8 IS L III unless Canon does something akin to "magic" like a massive weight reduction (>400g).

Optically, I cannot see the current 300mm f/2.8 IS L II being beat by any kind of margin that would indicate a reason to upgrade. Its Canon's best performer imho.

The big white I would like to see "upgraded" is the 200mm f/2.0 IS L II.
This is not a $300.00 lens. For most people, myself included, the 300mm 2.8 II is not at all old, and I would not fork over another $6500+, even if this new lens was a huge upgrade.

Scott
 
Mar 29, 2018
2
0
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

I really don't understand why Canon keep launching new EF lens.
while Canon is going to announce a full frame mirror less camera very soon.

Is it possible that its full frame mirror less camera still use EF mouth??
 

applecider

EOS 7D MK II
May 20, 2012
486
42
Portland Oregon, Cape Cod
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

500 iii availability will vary the big box boys bhphotovideo adorama etc. may have some but there may be a wait maybe upto tree months.

For one of the releases I think it was the 400ii my local pro photo supply had one or two allocated and I walked in the door the day they were demoing it I paid list but got it.
 
Jul 17, 2012
82
2
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Don Haines said:
... the assumption that when Canon goes mirrorless that they will both discontinue (eventually) mirrored cameras and that the new mount will be a much shorter distance... This assumption may not be correct.
...
Canon said it was going to be an elegant solution....Throwing out everything to start again is not an elegant solution.... an elegant solution would be to keep the existing mount and upgrading the firmware/hardware on new lenses/cameras to accept a higher speed camera/lens data pipe and more lens computing power to give better AF and IS performance..... and allow you to mount crop lenses on the FF camera. The elegant solution could also include a dock like sigma and Tamron to reprogram lenses (or use a tethered body) to adjust lens parameters......
I can think of four different solutions to the mirrorless FF mount problem:

(1) EF-M variant that requires an adapter to mount EF lenses. Not exactly elegant.

(2) EF as is with just internal changes like you describe (or rather EF-S to allow mounting crop lenses, too). I don't think this is particularly elegant either.

(3) A new EF-compatible mount, similar to EF-S in that it'd allow mounting EF lenses directly but also new EF-X lenses that'd protrude much deeper into the body. Short focal length EF-X lenses could all but disappear inside the body keeping the combination small, and there'd be no need to do anything with longer lenses. That would be an elegant solution in my view.

(4) A combination of the above: big bodies with EF-X mount as above and small bodies with EF-M2 (or whatever, EF-M compatible) mount plus an adapter that allows mounting EF and EF-X lenses (maybe EF-S too). This would have the potential to make everybody happy, though it'd require maintaining two lines of short lenses (EF-X and EF-M), but that's nothing new.

I'm kind of hoping for (4).
 
Reactions: Michael Clark

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,234
252
Southeastern USA
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

CanonFanBoy said:
YuengLinger said:
There will be two FF mounts. They will exist together for a time. And then there will be one.

Time frame? No idea.

So, quite a while before "I told you so!" from either side of the question.
When? 2030? 2040? Not anytime soon unless these updates are to make a mount change on the lens easier. Pretty safe bet you made there... or maybe not.

The EF mount is now 31 years old. What if in 2025 Canon announces they are going to discontinue the EF mount. At what point between now and then would you feel aggravated that you've spent $10k or $20k on new Big Whites? Maybe the adapters for the new mounts will be great and the performance hit will be negligilbe. That would remove some of the sting.

As far as who will buy a big white and who is allowed to participate in your discussions, I'm in a position now where I could use one, but I am holding back to see what the long term future of the Canon system is going to look like. While I can't read tea leaves, knowing what the mount will be on the upcoming FF mirrorless would either convince me EF is here to stay or is on its way out.


I maintain that the insignificant improvements in the latest updates suggests a new mount is coming for mirrorless. On this I will be proved wrong or right soon.
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
151
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

YuengLinger said:
CanonFanBoy said:
YuengLinger said:
There will be two FF mounts. They will exist together for a time. And then there will be one.

Time frame? No idea.

So, quite a while before "I told you so!" from either side of the question.
When? 2030? 2040? Not anytime soon unless these updates are to make a mount change on the lens easier. Pretty safe bet you made there... or maybe not.

The EF mount is now 31 years old. What if in 2025 Canon announces they are going to discontinue the EF mount. At what point between now and then would you feel aggravated that you've spent $10k or $20k on new Big Whites? Maybe the adapters for the new mounts will be great and the performance hit will be negligilbe. That would remove some of the sting.

As far as who will buy a big white and who is allowed to participate in your discussions, I'm in a position now where I could use one, but I am holding back to see what the long term future of the Canon system is going to look like. While I can't read tea leaves, knowing what the mount will be on the upcoming FF mirrorless would either convince me EF is here to stay or is on its way out.


I maintain that the insignificant improvements in the latest updates suggests a new mount is coming for mirrorless. On this I will be proved wrong or right soon.
agree.

Just as an aside with no immediate bearing on future EF-X mount ... "wearing my Canapologist hat for a moment": I can only think of 2 Canon EF L lens updates in the last couple of years that were "rather insignificant": 70-200/2.8 L IS III and EF 24-105 L IS II. All others like 100-400 II, 70-200/4 IS III, all the big white Mk. II versions ... were "totally worthwhile". But maybe i am missing something.

That said: I really would see other priorities atm for Canon lens department than Mk. III versions of big whites. They should be beaver busy working on those EF-X lenses. Plus - as very last new EF lens ever to be made - an EF 50mm f/1.x IS USM for Ahsanford for course. ;D
 
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photonius

EOS RP
Jul 13, 2013
225
11
Re: A Bit More About the New \

takesome1 said:
I am not buying this rumor, at least the version III part.
Those lenses just haven't been out long enough.

Whatever happened to the 800mm II, I could believe that one it is long overdue.
Probably like the recent 70-200 f2.8 update, mainly new coatings. maybe as mentioned in this case, shave a bit off the weight as well. Maybe some internals that one does not see to improve communication with upcoming FF mirrorless (could also be inside the new 70-200 lenses, but it's not something that anybody can see)
 
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YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,234
252
Southeastern USA
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Right. As with many updates, the target customer is not an owner of the current model, but somebody with an earlier generation lens or buying for the first time.

We are so conditioned now, as electronics consumers, to believe anything more than a couple of years old is out of date, that even optimal products must be given a new coat of paint and version number. (But that's better than automobile customers, right?)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,862
1,028
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Canon Rumors said:
What sort of upgrades should we expect from new super telephoto lenses? I think a big one will be weight reduction,
Worth pointing out that for the MkI to MkII updates, the 400 and 600 saw weight reductions of over 25%, while the 300 and 500 only dropped less than 10% of their weight. To me, that suggests we'll see updates to the 300 and 500.
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
3,835
184
Re: A Bit More About the New \

ethanz said:
Maybe the 400 f2.8 II will be cheaper then... better get the Beano!

I'm guessing the updates will be similar to the 70-200. Not much to wow people with, but still a good update.
I am sorry but you contradicted yourself. Not much to wow people with means not a good update. Especially the 2.8 version. Not good update at all. If they make similar updates none will feel the need to upgrade (which is a good thing for their wallets :D ) Also keep in mind that going from version I to II the white teles had already a noticeable reduction in weight and an increase in IQ. So these updates will most probably not be significant.
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
820
150
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
 
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unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
Interesting and good to know. Let me see if I'm doing the math right. 600mm f4 released in 1988 and I'm guessing discontinued after the IS version was released in 1999. You tried to have it repaired in 2004. Which means it became un-repairable five years after being discontinued. The 300 f4 (some might dispute that is truly a big white) released in 1991 and superseded by the IS version in 1997. You tried to have it repaired in 2004, or seven years after it was replaced by the IS version.

That certainly would give me pause, especially before buying an older model lens.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
3,835
184
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
OK My 300mm f/4L (non-IS) still works! True I haven't used much of it after 2012 but it has served me very well. It will by my backup lens to shoot the moon eclipse on an astrotrac mount if I fail to use the 300 2.8 with it due to size/weight. And I cannot see how the version II white super teles could be discontinued. I mean they can of course but it will not look very ethical on Canon. Not all places on earth are like US, UK (and some more) where big teles can be sold and bought new. But anyway being a hobbyist I use my white lenses rarely enough to not worry for them. And some (actually all) version II white teles are so good that I can live for them for many years. Even 5DsR with 500mm f/4L IS II with Ef2XIII which some may say is not an ideal combination gave me some very good and some excellent results.
 

Trigger

I'm New Here
Jul 3, 2018
15
3
Canada
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

tron said:
I cannot see how the version II white super teles could be discontinued. I mean they can of course but it will not look very ethical on Canon.
From what I understand, it's standard procedure for Canon to discontinue parts & service for any lens seven years after a new version is released. Nothing to do with ethics, but rather the economics of making & stocking all those old parts. Having said that, I think ten years would be a bit more reasonable.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,873
1,197
Canada
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
Add to the list a 600F4 that became a paperweight.....
 

Etienne

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 19, 2010
1,312
97
Ottawa Ontario
Re: A Bit More About the New \

gunship01 said:
Etienne said:
I wish Canon would make a lightweight 400 f/5.6L IS for us mere mortals.
The 100-400 is nice, but heavy and expensive.
The line starts back here.....:)

I think the 600 is a great lens - would like to get a copy.
I'm sure the 600 is awesome, but it's way too much $$$$ for me. Even if I had the money for it, it's way too big and heavy for my uses. I'm counting every 100g nowadays. There's just too much stuff to carry around, and most of my work requires travel. I would probably bring a lightweight 400 f/5.6L IS, but even the 100-400 makes me pause and wonder if I can get by without it.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,234
252
Southeastern USA
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

unfocused said:
BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
Interesting and good to know. Let me see if I'm doing the math right. 600mm f4 released in 1988 and I'm guessing discontinued after the IS version was released in 1999. You tried to have it repaired in 2004. Which means it became un-repairable five years after being discontinued. The 300 f4 (some might dispute that is truly a big white) released in 1991 and superseded by the IS version in 1997. You tried to have it repaired in 2004, or seven years after it was replaced by the IS version.

That certainly would give me pause, especially before buying an older model lens.

Exactly--and even more so if the mount is scheduled for phase out.