A Bit More About the New “Big White” Lenses Coming from Canon [CR3]

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

So I am going to tell you something but don’t tell anyone.
Canon is going to upgrade 2 of its big whites but I won’t tell you which two.
All I can say is they will be version III.
What sort of half assed rumour is that?
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Kim Photo Addict said:
Is it possible that its full frame mirror less camera still use EF mouth??
Yes. I would not assume Canon is going to release a camera (like Sony) using a deck of cards as a design model. ;)

In my opinion it would not be a smart move to make FF mirrorless one of those "50 Shades of Grey" bodies, though I make my "sub" carry around a Sony with a Canon 70-200 mounted. Comfortable awesomeness will be the order of things for Canon. Those tiny cameras might make sense for plastic EF and EF-s lenses. They do not make sense for somebody carrying around "L" glass, especially any of the white lenses.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,649
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Southeastern USA
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

CanonFanBoy said:
Kim Photo Addict said:
Is it possible that its full frame mirror less camera still use EF mouth??
Yes. I would not assume Canon is going to release a camera (like Sony) using a deck of cards as a design model. ;)

In my opinion it would not be a smart move to make FF mirrorless one of those "50 Shades of Grey" bodies, though I make my "sub" carry around a Sony with a Canon 70-200 mounted. Comfortable awesomeness will be the order of things for Canon. Those tiny cameras might make sense for plastic EF and EF-s lenses. They do not make sense for somebody carrying around "L" glass, especially any of the white lenses.
Then why do you think Canon doesn't simply state that FF mirrorless will retain EF?
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

YuengLinger said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Kim Photo Addict said:
Is it possible that its full frame mirror less camera still use EF mouth??
Yes. I would not assume Canon is going to release a camera (like Sony) using a deck of cards as a design model. ;)

In my opinion it would not be a smart move to make FF mirrorless one of those "50 Shades of Grey" bodies, though I make my "sub" carry around a Sony with a Canon 70-200 mounted. Comfortable awesomeness will be the order of things for Canon. Those tiny cameras might make sense for plastic EF and EF-s lenses. They do not make sense for somebody carrying around "L" glass, especially any of the white lenses.
Then why do you think Canon doesn't simply state that FF mirrorless will retain EF?
Because there won't be a change. Why mention something that is of no consequence? They don't tell you what color it will be. Is there any doubt it won't be black?

Look at all the buzz Canon is getting by not discussing the mount, unless we look at the "elegant" remarks concerning the mount... which can simply mean, "It works with the EF glass you already have. No changes there."

I honestly don't understand all the hyperventalating over the mount.

Mention FF mirrorless and a lot of people assume the thing has to be like a Sony. Not!
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

EF is EF. An adapter to make EF work on FF mirrorless is something else, and a signal that EF as a native mount is headed towards nostalgia.

Seriously, for most lenses, the mount issue is not a huge deal. For Big Whites, something to think about until Canon delivers clarity.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

YuengLinger said:
EF is EF. An adapter to make EF work on FF mirrorless is something else, and a signal that EF as a native mount is headed towards nostalgia.
Maybe the adapter is to make EF-M work on FF mirrorless for those that want small and light? I don't know.

It still assumes that Canon mirrorless will be little like a Sony. I don't think so, unless two different versions come out... a full size DSLR type for comfort and a deck of cards type for the masochists. Maybe that's why we are hearing about two releases. That does not mean the full size camera will eventually go away. Maybe the two styles can exist in parallel forever. One for comfort and familiarity, and one for... whatever.

I don't think Canon's mention (very brief) signals EF will be going away at all. That, I think, is reading into the statement something that isn't there.

Come on guys. Unless you've held one of those mirrorless deck of cards monstrosities in your hands with an "L" lens attached, you have no idea what you are asking for. And for what? I keep hearing, "To give me more space in my bag." or "To save some weight". Do you really think it will make that much of a difference? Please. Either way doesn't save you the discomfort that goes along with it. It really is terrible.

BTW: It could also be a FF consumer grade camera, not on par with the 6D, 5D, or 1D lines. In other words, not intended for heavy lenses.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Speaking for myself, I'm hoping I'm wrong, that EF will be the standard for years. But a pro FF body might be as good a justification as any to go with the next generation.
 

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
391
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

So these maybe? ...Canon 500mm DO f5.6L IS and Canon 600mm DO f5.6L IS. I guess this would go against the "III" part of the rumor.

So a 400mm f2.8L IS III (lighter due to Titanium body and/or Carbon fiber), better/updated coatings, improved IS response, same optical formula and possibly a built-in 1.4X extender - depending on the weight-savings. And a 600mm f4.0L IS III (with the same improvements as the 400mm (only w/o the built-in extender).

Ah...it's fun to prognosticate.
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

YuengLinger said:
unfocused said:
BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this...
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died...
Interesting and good to know...

...That certainly would give me pause, especially before buying an older model lens.
Exactly--and even more so if the mount is scheduled for phase out.
Let's get back on topic. This has nothing to do with an imagined "phase out" of a lens mount, which shouldn't even be a concern unless you are exceedingly paranoid. This is about buying a superseded lens either new or used.
 

Maiaibing

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 7, 2014
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

BeenThere said:
unfocused said:
gcrimmins said:
An annoying aspect of the minor lens upgrades is that Canon will only repair a lens for about seven years after it's discontinued...
I know that's often been said here on CR and assume that is Canon's official policy, but I wonder if anyone has any actual experience with this, especially regarding the big whites. I'm sure Canon eventually runs out of replacement parts, but I also think it would be bad customer relations for them if they stick to an arbitrary time frame for the expensive big whites.

Anyone have any actual experience with Canon not fixing an older big white? And how old are we talking?
I’ve had two big white Canon lenses die and become unrepairable because of parts non availability. First was 600mm f/4 non IS version purchased new and never abused had the AF die. Second was the 300mm f4 nonIS, also AF died. This happened about a dozen year ago. Eventually sold both for parts. I am now wary of keeping very expensive lenses after they have been discontinued.
Agree. Canon has discontinued repairs of big whites even just a few years after they stopped production. Their policy is clear enough. They will repair until parts run out...
 

djack41

EOS 80D
Jul 12, 2014
175
118
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

New white paint and higher price!
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,519
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Dfunk99 said:
Not interested in ANY Big lenses - needed are: 20mm 2.8 or 20mm f2.0; 28mm 1.8 IS, a New 50mm 1.4, 100mmf2.0IS & a 24-120L IS - Nikon has one of those.
Why are you commenting on this thread?
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

YuengLinger said:
Speaking for myself, I'm hoping I'm wrong, that EF will be the standard for years. But a pro FF body might be as good a justification as any to go with the next generation.
I think a pro body is a far smaller market than the EF picture as a whole. Far smaller. Change everything for one body? Nawwww. But we'll see soon enough.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,092
392
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Trigger said:
tron said:
I cannot see how the version II white super teles could be discontinued. I mean they can of course but it will not look very ethical on Canon.
From what I understand, it's standard procedure for Canon to discontinue parts & service for any lens seven years after a new version is released. Nothing to do with ethics, but rather the economics of making & stocking all those old parts. Having said that, I think ten years would be a bit more reasonable.
If the new versions are not really NEW design like the 70-200 ones then they make new versions as an excuse to stop supporting the current ones. This is HUGE Ethics issue. Now the 70-200 2.8L IS II is a new design of version I. Version III isn't. Hope you can see that!
 

Etienne

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 19, 2010
1,360
156
Ottawa Ontario
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

CanonFanBoy said:
YuengLinger said:
Speaking for myself, I'm hoping I'm wrong, that EF will be the standard for years. But a pro FF body might be as good a justification as any to go with the next generation.
I think a pro body is a far smaller market than the EF picture as a whole. Far smaller. Change everything for one body? Nawwww. But we'll see soon enough.
Mirrorless is the future. Canon is going to redesign and optimize the mount for the new format, just like they did when they introduced EF in the first place. There's no way that they will limit their future by committing mirrorless to an old mount.
For sure they will release an excellent adapter, and for sure they will continue to produce excellent DSLRs with EF mounts for quite a while. But Canon's past behavior shows that they will abandon one phase of their product line in favor of a superior future.
AND they will sell MORE lenses as a result of a new mount, not fewer. It's a win win, for Canon and their customers. Don't want to buy new mirrorless optimized lenses ... use the adapter or buy another DSLR.
 

nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
208
113
Calgary
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

tapanit said:
Don Haines said:
... the assumption that when Canon goes mirrorless that they will both discontinue (eventually) mirrored cameras and that the new mount will be a much shorter distance... This assumption may not be correct.
...
Canon said it was going to be an elegant solution....Throwing out everything to start again is not an elegant solution.... an elegant solution would be to keep the existing mount and upgrading the firmware/hardware on new lenses/cameras to accept a higher speed camera/lens data pipe and more lens computing power to give better AF and IS performance..... and allow you to mount crop lenses on the FF camera. The elegant solution could also include a dock like sigma and Tamron to reprogram lenses (or use a tethered body) to adjust lens parameters......
I can think of four different solutions to the mirrorless FF mount problem:

(1) EF-M variant that requires an adapter to mount EF lenses. Not exactly elegant.

(2) EF as is with just internal changes like you describe (or rather EF-S to allow mounting crop lenses, too). I don't think this is particularly elegant either.

(3) A new EF-compatible mount, similar to EF-S in that it'd allow mounting EF lenses directly but also new EF-X lenses that'd protrude much deeper into the body. Short focal length EF-X lenses could all but disappear inside the body keeping the combination small, and there'd be no need to do anything with longer lenses. That would be an elegant solution in my view.

(4) A combination of the above: big bodies with EF-X mount as above and small bodies with EF-M2 (or whatever, EF-M compatible) mount plus an adapter that allows mounting EF and EF-X lenses (maybe EF-S too). This would have the potential to make everybody happy, though it'd require maintaining two lines of short lenses (EF-X and EF-M), but that's nothing new.

I'm kind of hoping for (4).
Respectfully, you frame it as a problem, which is the problem.

What I see is Canon is looking to segment the market as it has always done, in order to maximize profit. I think you are pretty close to what will eventually happen.

EF-M is targeted for the masses. Small bodies with small lenses. I think they will max out the telephoto lens for the M line at the 55-250 (as per the EF-s).

EF-X will target the FF enthusiast and professional market. I am guessing that they are making a sensor slightly larger than 35mm. They will also make a range of sensors some without the DPAF and no AA-filter... different sensors to target different markets.

The EF-S line will be deprecated as soon as they can be economically.

The EF line will survive until the cine line goes away.

They will make a hybrid camera that will take the EF and EF-X mount until there are enough EF-X lenses out there to justify a EF-X only line.

Just what I think.
 

unfocused

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
5,049
1,434
66
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

tron said:
Trigger said:
tron said:
I cannot see how the version II white super teles could be discontinued. I mean they can of course but it will not look very ethical on Canon.
From what I understand, it's standard procedure for Canon to discontinue parts & service for any lens seven years after a new version is released. Nothing to do with ethics, but rather the economics of making & stocking all those old parts. Having said that, I think ten years would be a bit more reasonable.
If the new versions are not really NEW design like the 70-200 ones then they make new versions as an excuse to stop supporting the current ones. This is HUGE Ethics issue. Now the 70-200 2.8L IS II is a new design of version I. Version III isn't. Hope you can see that!
It's not the case of an "excuse." Like most manufacturers, Canon stops servicing discontinued products once they run out of parts to perform that service. What no one here knows is whether or not the 70-200 III is simply a refresh with new lens coatings and body paint. If that's the case, it's likely that Canon would continue to provide service for the II version for many years if (and that is an important "if") the parts are interchangeable.

Since the new big whites haven't even been released yet, we don't know how different they will be from the existing versions. So speculating about how long they will service the current versions is way premature.
 
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nchoh

EOS RP
Apr 3, 2018
208
113
Calgary
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

CanonFanBoy said:
YuengLinger said:
Speaking for myself, I'm hoping I'm wrong, that EF will be the standard for years. But a pro FF body might be as good a justification as any to go with the next generation.
I think a pro body is a far smaller market than the EF picture as a whole. Far smaller. Change everything for one body? Nawwww. But we'll see soon enough.
Sony recently came out with some big glass for sport photography. Together with their A7 gets about 20 fps in focus. Canon's and Nikon's best gig can only deliver 10 fps focused. Even if they don't sell alot of lenses for those purposes, it's still a huge market and the only way to keep Sony off that market is to introduce a FF camera.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,092
392
Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

unfocused said:
tron said:
Trigger said:
tron said:
I cannot see how the version II white super teles could be discontinued. I mean they can of course but it will not look very ethical on Canon.
From what I understand, it's standard procedure for Canon to discontinue parts & service for any lens seven years after a new version is released. Nothing to do with ethics, but rather the economics of making & stocking all those old parts. Having said that, I think ten years would be a bit more reasonable.
If the new versions are not really NEW design like the 70-200 ones then they make new versions as an excuse to stop supporting the current ones. This is HUGE Ethics issue. Now the 70-200 2.8L IS II is a new design of version I. Version III isn't. Hope you can see that!
It's not the case of an "excuse." Like most manufacturers, Canon stops servicing discontinued products once they run out of parts to perform that service. What no one here knows is whether or not the 70-200 III is simply a refresh with new lens coatings and body paint. If that's the case, it's likely that Canon would continue to provide service for the II version for many years if (and that is an important "if") the parts are interchangeable.

Since the new big whites haven't even been released yet, we don't know how different they will be from the existing versions. So speculating about how long they will service the current versions is way premature.
Copying from TDP...

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-200mm-f-2.8L-IS-III-USM-Lens.aspx

What are the Differences Between the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS III Lens and the Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II Lens?

The III has ASC (Air Sphere Coating) in addition to Super Spectra Coating, designed to reduce flare and ghosting.
The III has fluorine coating on the front and rear lens elements, keeping them cleaner and making them much easier to clean.
The III has Canon's newer, whiter paint color, matching the other recently-introduced telephoto lenses.
The III has minor typographical changes including the words "Image Stabilizer" and "Ultrasonic" printed below the focal length range and next to the focus distance window. The gold "Image Stabilizer" has been removed from the mount area.

I know, at this point you are thinking that I'm missing many items from this list, but ... sorry, that's all that has been promised. The optical design is the same. The IS system is the same. The overall lens design is the same.