A Bit More About the New “Big White” Lenses Coming from Canon [CR3]

Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Talys said:
Yeah, that... Except when you have a big lens on the 1DXII and a 1.4x or 2x extender on it, in a real life venue that matters, like, say, an Olympic figure skating rink, the 1DXII will give you 14 in-focus frames every second, while the a9 will look like it's having a seizure trying to focus on something. Though yes, you can force the shutter to whir 20 times every second with a massive buffer to give you 256GB of blurry photos :D

In trying out a 1DX2, what I was really most impressed with was its AF speed in imperfect conditions. It was truly amazing (keeping in mind that at the time my best camera was a 70D).

So you've never actually used the A9 because if you did you wouldn't talk such crap. Owning a D500, A9 and 1DX and 5D4 knowing superb bird photographers that own 1DXII, D500/D850 and A9, the A9 is clearly the best AFing camera on the market, then the D500/D5/D850, then 1DXII, with 1DX and 5D4 pretty similar. The D500 and A9 can easily get shots that Canon has always struggled with. I don't run my A9 at 20fps, I use 10fps,a and the lock-on speed is insane and it sticks like shit to a blanket. I didn't think it could get better than the D500 but Sony has done a great job. I sold my 1DX after a few weeks of owning the A9.
 
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tron

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

danimon said:
i think it could be 300 and 600, although i'm pretty sure the rest will follow sooner rather than later.. i can see a lot of room for improvement in image quality and technology whether it's about ultra high resolution, action stopper, or video shooter dslr .

but if i gonna make a 10k+ purchase, i would rather go with big zoom lens like 200-400 f4, and i would really love to pay more for a more compact and lighter lens.

having 600 f4 is always nice , but its something like 400-800 f5,6 that going to save you most of the time. mark my words ;) ;D
Lot of improvement for the 300 or for any other super tele? Sorry I do not buy it. Do you have it and/or have you seen 300mm 2.8L IS II reviews on TDP, DxO on its performance with 5DsR ?
 
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Talys

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Mr Majestyk said:
Talys said:
Yeah, that... Except when you have a big lens on the 1DXII and a 1.4x or 2x extender on it, in a real life venue that matters, like, say, an Olympic figure skating rink, the 1DXII will give you 14 in-focus frames every second, while the a9 will look like it's having a seizure trying to focus on something. Though yes, you can force the shutter to whir 20 times every second with a massive buffer to give you 256GB of blurry photos :D

In trying out a 1DX2, what I was really most impressed with was its AF speed in imperfect conditions. It was truly amazing (keeping in mind that at the time my best camera was a 70D).

So you've never actually used the A9 because if you did you wouldn't talk such crap. Owning a D500, A9 and 1DX and 5D4 knowing superb bird photographers that own 1DXII, D500/D850 and A9, the A9 is clearly the best AFing camera on the market, then the D500/D5/D850, then 1DXII, with 1DX and 5D4 pretty similar. The D500 and A9 can easily get shots that Canon has always struggled with. I don't run my A9 at 20fps, I use 10fps,a and the lock-on speed is insane and it sticks like S____ to a blanket. I didn't think it could get better than the D500 but Sony has done a great job. I sold my 1DX after a few weeks of owning the A9.

I have used both the A9 and an A7R3 extensively using the Sony 100-400 and 70-200 with Sony 1.4x and 2x extenders, and with a sigma 150-600 with and without the Sigma and Sony 1.4x extenders. There is no way that the raw AF speed, especially with extenders, is anywhere near comparable with an 1DX2. I mean, it isn't even in the same universe. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never used a 1DX2 with a big lens with extenders for even 10 seconds.

FFS, with extenders,the 1DX2 is much faster than a 5D4 when there is less available light (whether it's just darker or when aperture is smaller). And the 5D4 is warp speed faster than either an a9 or a7R3, when light is not ideal. Switch it to AF-S, and compare that to single shot on a Rebel, and A9 or A7R3 fail miserably, hunting on even the simplest autofocus tasks, as it switches to contrast detect AF (which wouldn't be an issue, except that some AF features only work in AF-S). There are also some weird AF issues, where horizontal lines focus easily, but low contrast vertical lines cause hunting.

When it comes to continuous AF, for example for video, DPAF makes you look like a pro, while Sony hybrid AF hunts all around fifteen ways to Sunday.

I do agree that Sony's subject tracking is superior. But this is not a feature that I care about at all -- I really just care about getting fast, accurate AF, mostly in the center point.

There must be lots of sports photographers that see it your way, because, during the World Cup the sidelines were just full of A9's, right?
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Talys said:
Mr Majestyk said:
Talys said:
Yeah, that... Except when you have a big lens on the 1DXII and a 1.4x or 2x extender on it, in a real life venue that matters, like, say, an Olympic figure skating rink, the 1DXII will give you 14 in-focus frames every second, while the a9 will look like it's having a seizure trying to focus on something. Though yes, you can force the shutter to whir 20 times every second with a massive buffer to give you 256GB of blurry photos :D

In trying out a 1DX2, what I was really most impressed with was its AF speed in imperfect conditions. It was truly amazing (keeping in mind that at the time my best camera was a 70D).

So you've never actually used the A9 because if you did you wouldn't talk such crap. Owning a D500, A9 and 1DX and 5D4 knowing superb bird photographers that own 1DXII, D500/D850 and A9, the A9 is clearly the best AFing camera on the market, then the D500/D5/D850, then 1DXII, with 1DX and 5D4 pretty similar. The D500 and A9 can easily get shots that Canon has always struggled with. I don't run my A9 at 20fps, I use 10fps,a and the lock-on speed is insane and it sticks like S____ to a blanket. I didn't think it could get better than the D500 but Sony has done a great job. I sold my 1DX after a few weeks of owning the A9.

I have used both the A9 and an A7R3 extensively using the Sony 100-400 and 70-200 with Sony 1.4x and 2x extenders, and with a sigma 150-600 with and without the Sigma and Sony 1.4x extenders. There is no way that the raw AF speed, especially with extenders, is anywhere near comparable with an 1DX2. I mean, it isn't even in the same universe. Anyone who thinks otherwise has never used a 1DX2 with a big lens with extenders for even 10 seconds.

FFS, with extenders,the 1DX2 is much faster than a 5D4 when there is less available light (whether it's just darker or when aperture is smaller). And the 5D4 is warp speed faster than either an a9 or a7R3, when light is not ideal. Switch it to AF-S, and compare that to single shot on a Rebel, and A9 or A7R3 fail miserably, hunting on even the simplest autofocus tasks, as it switches to contrast detect AF (which wouldn't be an issue, except that some AF features only work in AF-S). There are also some weird AF issues, where horizontal lines focus easily, but low contrast vertical lines cause hunting.

When it comes to continuous AF, for example for video, DPAF makes you look like a pro, while Sony hybrid AF hunts all around fifteen ways to Sunday.

I do agree that Sony's subject tracking is superior. But this is not a feature that I care about at all -- I really just care about getting fast, accurate AF, mostly in the center point.

There must be lots of sports photographers that see it your way, because, during the World Cup the sidelines were just full of A9's, right?

With what you just explained here is exactly why I think Canon just may hit a home run with their FF mirrorless cameras coming soon. It really wouldn't take much for them to meet or exceed what Sony is offering....and to have a HUGE line of EF lenses that most regular Canon shooters already own??? hell, it's a no brainer in my opinion.

Of course there will always be haters that will never be happy with what Canon does, but I do think Canon will shift the market a bit real soon and Sony will notice clearly.

...and I have no dog in the fight for my opinion on this matter as I could care a less what Canon does when it comes to mirrorless, I'm sticking to with what I currently own for the foreseeable future, which is my mirrored DSLR's.
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

only a new mount allows Canon to utilize all advantages that removal of mirrorbox beings to lens design and offer imaging gear for every use, desire and preference. thats why they will do it, just like Nikon will do it (Z-mount). For Canon it is much easier than for Nikon. thanks to Canon's bold move in 1987 to EF. all EF glass owned by customers will be compatibility with a a simple little extension tube "adapter".

new mount will enable Canon to offer compact FF-sensored cameras with compact lenses in most frequently used focal length range and large cameras for those who prefer it large. best of all worlds for Canon and customers. plus lots of new lenses to be sold. perfect!
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

neonlight said:
FF mirrorless surely would use EF mount. NO adapter, just a bigger body.
Keep smaller bodies for EFM.

lol. i fully expect canon FF MILCs will all come with new mount, not EF.
irrespective of lens mount EF lenses will be "legacy" the day Canon FF MILC comes out and be sibject to the same limitations as in live view mode on a (DP-AF) DSLR. :)
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Trigger said:
Am I correct in the impression I have that a DO 500 or 600 will (inherently) be inferior in the IQ/bokeh department than the 500/600 II lenses we have now, and if so, am I correct in hoping that an upcoming 500/600 III is not a DO?

Trigger welcome to CR

The first iteration of the 400 DO had issues with bokeh, the ii seems much better and thus future lenses should be no worse and probably better. One site and impressive user here http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/one-year-with-ef-400-do-is-ii/. I see no bokeh issues there, and really no issues with even the 2x extender as far as image quality is concerned.

So I would suggest that your hypothesis that bokeh with DO is inherently worse is false.
 
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Don Haines

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

applecider said:
Trigger said:
Am I correct in the impression I have that a DO 500 or 600 will (inherently) be inferior in the IQ/bokeh department than the 500/600 II lenses we have now, and if so, am I correct in hoping that an upcoming 500/600 III is not a DO?

Trigger welcome to CR

The first iteration of the 400 DO had issues with bokeh, the ii seems much better and thus future lenses should be no worse and probably better. One site and impressive user here http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/one-year-with-ef-400-do-is-ii/. I see no bokeh issues there, and really no issues with even the 2x extender as far as image quality is concerned.

So I would suggest that your hypothesis that bokeh with DO is inherently worse is false.

From what I have been told, DO lenses are much harder to design than regular lenses, but as the 400DO proves, they can be bone very well. I would expect a 600DO to be better than a 400DO, as they have now had even more experience.....
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Talys said:
There must be lots of sports photographers that see it your way, because, during the World Cup the sidelines were just full of A9's, right?

Clever, you know that has just to do with lack of glass and not the cameras AF, and yes that's Sony's own moronic oversight not have had the 400 f/2.8 ready when the A9 was announced, but at least they've rectified that now and also delivered another home run. When the A9II hits before the Olympics you'll see a seismic shift in the mix. Sony only hass to improve ergonomics and ruggedness and it will take a lot of the pro market. Inertia is very strong with working pros, they won't just change for the sake of it. Not a single Canon user I've known that originally said the A9 was a toy and has now used one for more than a few minutes has not come away amazed by the AF. No it's not perfect but it's still better than the 1DXII which can't even match the D5 in some cases.
 
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unfocused

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Mr Majestyk said:
...When the A9II hits before the Olympics you'll see a seismic shift in the mix...

Let's everyone bookmark this statement and then see which comes first, Mr. Majestyk's prediction or Harry Film's magic codex.
 
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Don Haines

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Mr Majestyk said:
Talys said:
There must be lots of sports photographers that see it your way, because, during the World Cup the sidelines were just full of A9's, right?

Clever, you know that has just to do with lack of glass and not the cameras AF, and yes that's Sony's own moronic oversight not have had the 400 f/2.8 ready when the A9 was announced, but at least they've rectified that now and also delivered another home run. When the A9II hits before the Olympics you'll see a seismic shift in the mix. Sony only hass to improve ergonomics and ruggedness and it will take a lot of the pro market. Inertia is very strong with working pros, they won't just change for the sake of it. Not a single Canon user I've known that originally said the A9 was a toy and has now used one for more than a few minutes has not come away amazed by the AF. No it's not perfect but it's still better than the 1DXII which can't even match the D5 in some cases.

Because pro photographers do not shoot with a sensor, they shoot with a system..... and at the World Cup, CPS was there to support Canon shooters..... and they had a whole room full of the best lenses for those pros to borrow, and any equipment problems could be swapped out on the spot! Plus, the system that they were using has great ergonomics and the easy controls on the cameras to allow the pros to change settings without taking their eyes off of the action.... To give all that up for a Sony would be madness!

And tethering.....

Don’t forget tethering......

It’s great to have an Ethernet jack on the camera.....

While the action is happening, those ”poor people who had to suffer through using a 1DX2” were tethered to the internet. As they took pictures, they were downloaded to “the office” where an editor would process them and post them.... their workflow was so good that they were published before the event finished!
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

Mr Majestyk said:
neuroanatomist said:
Canon Rumors said:
What sort of upgrades should we expect from new super telephoto lenses? I think a big one will be weight reduction,

Worth pointing out that for the MkI to MkII updates, the 400 and 600 saw weight reductions of over 25%, while the 300 and 500 only dropped less than 10% of their weight. To me, that suggests we'll see updates to the 300 and 500.

True, but in the case of the 300 the body is a lot smaller to start with, the weight savings were always going to be proportionately a lot less. Also for the 500 we went from 3.8kg to 3.2kg that is clearly a lot more than 10% in fact it's about 19%. So these lenses weights fell by less but that was expected. I highly doubt Canon can get near Sony's weight for the 400 f/2.8 with their own 400 and 600 (almost same weight). They alluded to the fact they had a new lighter magnesium alloy for the mk III when news first broke about mk III's coming in time for 2020 Olympics, but will it be enough? I can only assume Sony managed such weight reduction by also making the lens body a bit thinner without affecting rigidity and also use of a lot of Fluorite lens elements. Also Sony moved the centre of mass way back in the lens making it balance a lot beter than the Canikon 400's and has 50% lower rotational inertia. Are these things Canon would have considered? IMO we might see 10% weight reductions, but not Sony's 24% effort.

Since all of the lenses were updated at about the same time it would stand to reason that the updated components that gave the 600mm II its weight were also incorporated in to the new 500mm II one would wonder where the weight loss of a version III would come from.
 
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jolyonralph

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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

fullstop said:
neonlight said:
FF mirrorless surely would use EF mount. NO adapter, just a bigger body.
Keep smaller bodies for EFM.

lol. i fully expect canon FF MILCs will all come with new mount, not EF.
irrespective of lens mount EF lenses will be "legacy" the day Canon FF MILC comes out and be sibject to the same limitations as in live view mode on a (DP-AF) DSLR. :)

Exactly. Some EF lenses really don't work so well with Live View/DPAF. Some are fine, but others hunt like crazy.

A new mount for mirrorless is essential for Canon to ensure that all native mount lenses are fully optimised for the requirements of DPAF (and whatever comes after DPAF) focusing.

Maybe Canon will produce an adaptor similar to the Sony LA-EA4 with a pelicle mirror for legacy EF glass to focus using traditional focus methods. This may make sense in order to allow those with the long white lenses to use the new cameras to the max.

But mirrorless camera with native EF mount, and no pelicle mirror? I can't see that happening.
 
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Re: A Bit More About the New Big White Lenses That Are Coming

The guy next to me at the sushi bar was drinking sake and at the end of his meal got a fortune cookie ( Chinese Japanese Sushi) and inside the cookie was a piece of paper from canon japan in Japanese which the other guy next to me could read.....

It said that the updates to the big whites were going to have native Sony mounts. Turns out that the girl friend of the Japanese speaker has a third cousin who works in canon corporate and she thinks that canon has decided that Sony bodies are the best and canon will now move toward only making lenses for Sony.

BTW the fortune cookie fortune was “old ways die hard try something new”.
 
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