A new EOS Rebel is coming this month, possibly an EOS Rebel T8i or entry level EOS M camera[CR1]

slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
2,974
453
Yes, indeed. Slcklick and others theoretising about average joy buying his next hamburger, not understanding the basic message of those complaining and answering the questions noone asked. Everybody and your mom knows, that most ppl buy stuff without emotional attachement. So why state the obvious? The basic message was not about why the world needs another Rebel. But why the world needs it NOW? So competition announces e.g. A7R IV and Canon is expected to come up with exactly what - next Rebel? Really great marketing reaction then ....
Comprehension and context went flying right by you with my post. I had no intention of discussing your 'why', I was addressing the buying habits. How easily you missed that. 'Why' is up to Canon, not me. Now, some here believe they are more in touch with camera markets than Canon. That's cute.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
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Davidson, NC
Through the mid '60s I used a Yashica rangefinder camera. I made some of the best pictures of my life with it. It had a 45mm lens, and I soon got to where I could visualize in that focal length when looking at a scene before picking up the camera. (That is about normal anyway.) I did my own darkroom work even in a dorm room, even color. Then I got my first SLR, a Canon, since I couldn't afford a Nikon. (I did get a Nikon enlarger lens.) I got a range of prime lenses over time, since zooms were heavy, bulky, and not very good in those days. I was still fairly serious about photography. I could make a few hundred dollars before classes started my last few years in grad school, so that was nice, and it was a good chunk of money back then.

We'll fast-forward through my ten years of not taking a camera with me when I traveled, so I'd actually see and do things rather than just take pictures. After I was no longer so serious about photography, I got a smaller film camera to take on trips, and took some decent slides in Prague, especially, in 2000. I took color negatives in Glacier National Park in 2001. I still intend to scan a lot of the best shots in and post on my web site. I bought a Casio as my first digital camera for an Alaska cruise in 2002. I made a lot of good pictures on the trip, but limited the number I took at the full 4MP because of storage limitations.

Jumping ahead in this already tedious autobiography, I went into a now-defunct appliance store to look at washers, dryers, and TVs for the home I had built for retirement. I wound up making an impulse purchase of a Rebel X(something) with kit lens and a $100 telephoto zoom. It took good pictures, but the CA on the telephoto was something fierce, and low-light pictures were incredibly noisy. So that taught me that a Rebel was fine; I just needed a better one. So I got a T3i. It is a good camera still. I got more Ef-S and a few EF lenses as I needed them, I thought. The 80D came out, and that seemed an obvious upgrade for me, but I decided to wait for the 6D2. So I photographed the total solar eclipse with the T3i and the suboptimal 75-300mm zoom. Somebody's online graphs told me to stop down to f/11, so I did. Almost all of the CA went away. I'm proud of my eclipse pictures, including a diamond ring shot.

But at that point I departed from my Rebel ways. It was still a good camera, and I could take good pictures with it, but this is the point where I become more like a lot of you guys. I bought the 6D2 with the kit zoom. I have been very pleased with it as an upgrade to the T3i, even though small children point and laugh and try to pronounce "dynamic range" as they scoff. I bought amazing L wide-angle and telephoto zooms. I am mostly over GAS for a while, except for considering upgrading my travel G7X II.

Thus endeth this episode of "Confessions of a Rebel Shooter."
 
Comprehension and context went flying right by you with my post. I had no intention of discussing your 'why', I was addressing the buying habits. How easily you missed that. 'Why' is up to Canon, not me. Now, some here believe they are more in touch with camera markets than Canon. That's cute.
Neither of us knows, what Canon is thinking in particular, apart from some official memos. We can't be even sure, that the camera coming is a DSLR Rebel. My guess is, it is not. And if it is, and just mostly refurbishes old tech, then I just go - meh. Some ppl are fine with Canon being a sales leader, I would prefer Canon being a techology leader again. In the long term, it might make a difference. And I can bet, that Canon knows that too and new tech is around the corner ...
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
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Some ppl are fine with Canon being a sales leader, I would prefer Canon being a techology leader again. In the long term, it might make a difference.
Let me guess, your definition of 'technology' is limited to image sensor DR and readout speed, right?
An image sensor with millions of AF points? Not technology.​
An f/2 standard-range zoom lens for FF? Not technology.​
Tilt-shift-macro lenses? Not technology.​
That's pretty narrow thinking. I bet you use 2 cm wide scratch pads to jot down your ideas. :rolleyes:
 
Mar 15, 2018
34
33
United States
I conducted an official, scientific survey today in lower Manhattan. 7 Rebels (or even less), 1 M series, 1 5D with an L lens, 3 Nikon crops, 1 point and shoot I couldn't make out. I saw maybe 5 people using cell phones for photos. Zero all else. This was over an hour of walking outside and two hours of visiting the Museum of the American Indian.

Edit: You're welcome.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,376
1,724
I conducted an official, scientific survey today in lower Manhattan. 7 Rebels (or even less), 1 M series, 1 5D with an L lens, 3 Nikon crops, 1 point and shoot I couldn't make out. I saw maybe 5 people using cell phones for photos. Zero all else. This was over an hour of walking outside and two hours of visiting the Museum of the American Indian.

Edit: You're welcome.
If you had said you saw 7 Sony MILCs, 6 Canon ILCs and a Nikon, and Sony read your post, they’d issue a press release stating they are dominating the ILC market in major metropolitan tourism destinations.*^†




* based on a Sony survey
^ for one day in the month of August
† in Lower Manhattan
 

slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
2,974
453
If you had said you saw 7 Sony MILCs, 6 Canon ILCs and a Nikon, and Sony read your post, they’d issue a press release stating they are dominating the ILC market in major metropolitan tourism destinations.*^†




* based on a Sony survey
^ for one day in the month of August
† in Lower Manhattan
All in one coffee shop with folks Instagramming their food
 
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Let me guess, your definition of 'technology' is limited to image sensor DR and readout speed, right?
An image sensor with millions of AF points? Not technology.​
An f/2 standard-range zoom lens for FF? Not technology.​
Tilt-shift-macro lenses? Not technology.​
That's pretty narrow thinking. I bet you use 2 cm wide scratch pads to jot down your ideas. :rolleyes:
Right now, the biggest obstacle with Canon cameras, is its image sensor and related stuff, yes. So to answer your questions:

- Focusing, DPAF might be an advantage, but as far as other cameras don't have focusing problem, one does not need to care. Go at the continuous tracking and bum, you are done. 2-3 fps anyone?
- Not a camera technology.
- Not a camera technology.

That's not a narrow thinking, that's just your delusional thinking, that Canon leads the market. I've got new perspective for you - in last 10 years, Sony got from what actual numbers, to what actual numbers? Even if they would gain 10-20% of the market, it mostly means one fact - they took it from others - go figure. (let's forget for a moment, that the market of cameras would grow in total volumes itself globally, which is denied even by Canon reports admitting camera market contraction).

Now my observation from the frequent visits of our probably biggest local stores (Megapixel), to get your head out from the US market for a moment. Being there, watching ppl, listening to dialogues, I can tell you that Canon is not the first brand being suggested, nor is it the brand ppl ask for as a first option. Hey, they even tried to break me (knowing we are all Canon) to get Sony with an adapter, instead of 5DIV.

There are soft influencers like market sentiment, status quo, hype (waves of popularity) and no matter what Canon numbers are, they are not the leaders of the trends, irrespectively of their eventual no 1 position on the market. Their numbers might be simply higher, if they would prevent shit storms like with the 6DII.

And why I am staying with Canon then, if I am being so critical? Because I am not the one necessarily catching the trendy waves. Because while Canon being slow at releases, I believe they have a good foundation - my plan is to get M new gen as a replacement for 70D and wait for the 5D IV replacement in some 2-3 years, in an R form. M + R are Canon's future. I expect them to tone down DSLRs in few years and seeing no replacement for 7DII is already a head scratcher, as I am not sure eventual 90D is going to replace that. Nor ergonomy wise could it come in a tiny M body.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,376
1,724
Right now, the biggest obstacle with Canon cameras, is its image sensor and related stuff, yes.
So to answer your questions:

- Focusing, DPAF might be an advantage, but as far as other cameras don't have focusing problem, one does not need to care. Go at the continuous tracking and bum, you are done. 2-3 fps anyone?
- Not a camera technology.
- Not a camera technology.
In other words, you do define technology as only having to do with the image sensor. As I said...narrow thinking. People buy cameras to take pictures, sensors don’t take pictures – cameras and lenses take pictures.

Incidentally, the biggest obstacle faced by Canon is the declining camera market, and its the biggest obstacle for all other manufacturers as well. The ‘image sensor and related stuff’ is overblown in the microcosm of some Internet forums, out in the real world where people buy cameras it’s not an obstacle for Canon at all...as the market numbers show (I mean the real market numbers, not the ones you made up in your head...).

That's not a narrow thinking, that's just your delusional thinking, that Canon leads the market. I've got new perspective for you - in last 10 years, Sony got from what actual numbers, to what actual numbers? Even if they would gain 10-20% of the market, it mostly means one fact - they took it from others - go figure.
Canon’s ILC market share 10 years ago was ~44%. Canon’s ILC market share today is ~49%.

Sony’s ILC market share 10 years ago was ~14% (they were selling some DSLRs and mostly NEX MILCs then, but abandoned DSLRs soon after because they were failing to compete with Cakon and Nikon). Sony’s ILC market share today is ~17%.

So in the past 10 years, Sony gained a little bit of market share (3%) and Canon gained a bit more (5%, both mainly at the expense of Nikon). That’s the perspective of facts and reality.

Your ‘new perspective’ is what’s delusional, and your thinking is both narrow and wrong.

Pro tip – if you’re going to base a logical argument on numbers, it helps to have at least a rough idea of what those numbers actually are. Lacking that you usually end looking foolish, as you’ve just effectively demonstrated.

Now my observation from the frequent visits of our probably biggest local stores (Megapixel), to get your head out from the US market for a moment. Being there, watching ppl, listening to dialogues, I can tell you that Canon is not the first brand being suggested, nor is it the brand ppl ask for as a first option. Hey, they even tried to break me (knowing we are all Canon) to get Sony with an adapter, instead of 5DIV.

There are soft influencers like market sentiment, status quo, hype (waves of popularity) and no matter what Canon numbers are, they are not the leaders of the trends, irrespectively of their eventual no 1 position on the market. Their numbers might be simply higher, if they would prevent shit storms like with the 6DII.
Given the global ILC market share numbers above, I suggest you get your head out of whatever fantasyland it’s in and look at reality. Your anecdotal experiences while shopping are just that...personal anecdotes. Not data.

If Sony takes meaningful market share from Canon (not something like the 3% they’ve gained from Nikon over 10 years while Canon was gaining, too), then maybe you can make those claims and actually sound like you know what you’re talking about.

Until then, your words are as meaningless and hollow as the empty thoughts behind them.
 
In other words, you do define technology as only having to do with the image sensor. As I said...narrow thinking. People buy cameras to take pictures, sensors don’t take pictures – cameras and lenses take pictures.

Incidentally, the biggest obstacle faced by Canon is the declining camera market, and its the biggest obstacle for all other manufacturers as well. The ‘image sensor and related stuff’ is overblown in the microcosm of some Internet forums, out in the real world where people buy cameras it’s not an obstacle for Canon at all...as the market numbers show (I mean the real market numbers, not the ones you made up in your head...).


Canon’s ILC market share 10 years ago was ~44%. Canon’s ILC market share today is ~49%.

Sony’s ILC market share 10 years ago was ~14% (they were selling some DSLRs and mostly NEX MILCs then, but abandoned DSLRs soon after because they were failing to compete with Cakon and Nikon). Sony’s ILC market share today is ~17%.

So in the past 10 years, Sony gained a little bit of market share (3%) and Canon gained a bit more (5%, both mainly at the expense of Nikon). That’s the perspective of facts and reality.

Your ‘new perspective’ is what’s delusional, and your thinking is both narrow and wrong.

Pro tip – if you’re going to base a logical argument on numbers, it helps to have at least a rough idea of what those numbers actually are. Lacking that you usually end looking foolish, as you’ve just effectively demonstrated.


Given the global ILC market share numbers above, I suggest you get your head out of whatever fantasyland it’s in and look at reality. Your anecdotal experiences while shopping are just that...personal anecdotes. Not data.

If Sony takes meaningful market share from Canon (not something like the 3% they’ve gained from Nikon over 10 years while Canon was gaining, too), then maybe you can make those claims and actually sound like you know what you’re talking about.

Until then, your words are as meaningless and hollow as the empty thoughts behind them.
Neuro, Nokia probably had hard numbers too, before first iPhone was released, right? So much for your dependency upon the statistical "evidence".

I myself don't care much about the the tourists using an ILCs. If hammer could make an image, they would use hammer instead of the camera probably. I do care abou the ecosystem I live in - wedding photogs, studio groups, influencers. I know what kind of shift I am seeing in last cca five years.

I think that Canon knows, that at some point they need upgraded sensor tech. I bet that the new tech is in development for quite some time already, even if Canon might still be growing their numbers with recent tech. Based upon your logic of following only hard sales figures, there would not be much need for an innovation, or would it?
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,376
1,724
Neuro, Nokia probably had hard numbers too, before first iPhone was released, right? So much for your dependency upon the statistical "evidence".
I am not surprised that you trotted out the Nokia trope (though I'm a little surprised you didn't trot out the Kodak trope as well). Smartphones were a paradigm shift, and in less than a decade the non-smartphone mobile market was effectively dead. Similarly, digital cameras were a paradigm shift, and in less than a decade the film camera market was effectively dead. MILCs have been around for well over a decade, and DSLRs are still the majority of the ILC market, and Canon remains the dominant ILC market leader.

Along the same lines of knowing the numbers before you base claims on them, you should try to actually understand the examples you are citing, instead of blindly parroting rehashed tropes.

I myself don't care much about the the tourists using an ILCs. If hammer could make an image, they would use hammer instead of the camera probably. I do care abou the ecosystem I live in - wedding photogs, studio groups, influencers. I know what kind of shift I am seeing in last cca five years.
You mean the 'shift' from 'influencers' that has had no effect on camera sales? I get that you think the tail can wag the dog, but that's not the way reality works.

I think that Canon knows, that at some point they need upgraded sensor tech. I bet that the new tech is in development for quite some time already, even if Canon might still be growing their numbers with recent tech. Based upon your logic of following only hard sales figures, there would not be much need for an innovation, or would it?
Of course they update their sensor tech – what do you think DPAF is? They've updated their lens tech, they've updated their lithography tech, they've been granted more patents than any other Japanese company for several years running.

Your whole premise is that 'sensor tech' is holding them back. Reality proves you wrong.

But hey, you go right on believing that the two stores you shopped in last week and the three photographer buddies you chatted with yesterday represent the market. Clearly, you like fantasy better than reality.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,101
522
Neuro, Nokia probably had hard numbers too, before first iPhone was released, right? So much for your dependency upon the statistical "evidence".
I had a Nokia smartphone before the first iPhone was released.

Nokia's phone business was killed not by Apple, but by Samsung. Not by the expensive, but by the cheap phones.

I myself don't care much about the the tourists using an ILCs.
I do. I am a tourist, and I use an ILC.

I probably could care less about "wedding photogs, studio groups, influencers", but then it would be unhealthy.

I think that Canon knows, that at some point they need upgraded sensor tech.
I think that Canon is regularly upgrading its sensor tech. As well as other major manufacturers of any sensors.
 

Rocky

EOS 6D MK II
Jul 30, 2010
908
26
"-pekr- said:
I myself don't care much about the the tourists using an ILCs. If hammer could make an image, they would use hammer instead of the camera probably. I do care abou the ecosystem I live in - wedding photogs, studio groups, influencers. I know what kind of shift I am seeing in last cca five years."

Tourist is what supports the camera industry. Tourist can be from far or from near. Even you go to local park to take pictures of the beautiful flowers. You are a tourist. So please do not smear tourist with mud. Most tourist are hobbyist. They will use whatever equipment they feel like to use, from very expensive to very cheap. Camera industry cannot survive with professional alone. Or they may have to price the equipment to be so expensive that independent professional cannot even afford. The Rebel and the M is what makes the 1Dx to be more reasonably priced.
 
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ThomsA

Constantly suppressing GAS. Taking photos.
Aug 31, 2018
20
26
Germany
The Japanese rumor blog Nokishita just announced that "Canon will announce in the coming days:
- EOS 90D (body, 18-55mm kit, 18-135mm kit)
- EOS M6 Mark II (body, 15-45mm kit, 18-150mm kit)
- RF24-70mm F2.8 L USM
- RF15-35mm F2.8 L USM
- Lens hood EW-88E
- Lens hood EW-88F"
 
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andrei1989

EOS RP
Sep 1, 2014
356
41
30
The Japanese rumor blog Nokishita just announced that "Canon will announce in the coming days:
- EOS 90 (body, 18-55 mm kit, 18-135 mm kit)
- EOS M6 Mark II (body, 15-45 mm kit, 18-150 mm kit)
- RF24-70 mm F2.8 L USM
- RF15-35 mm F2.8 L USM
- Lens hood EW-88E
- Lens hood EW-88F"
so the new rumored lenses are actually old lenses now being made available for purchase...sad...
 
I am not surprised that you trotted out the Nokia trope (though I'm a little surprised you didn't trot out the Kodak trope as well). Smartphones were a paradigm shift, and in less than a decade the non-smartphone mobile market was effectively dead. Similarly, digital cameras were a paradigm shift, and in less than a decade the film camera market was effectively dead. MILCs have been around for well over a decade, and DSLRs are still the majority of the ILC market, and Canon remains the dominant ILC market leader.

Along the same lines of knowing the numbers before you base claims on them, you should try to actually understand the examples you are citing, instead of blindly parroting rehashed tropes.


You mean the 'shift' from 'influencers' that has had no effect on camera sales? I get that you think the tail can wag the dog, but that's not the way reality works.


Of course they update their sensor tech – what do you think DPAF is? They've updated their lens tech, they've updated their lithography tech, they've been granted more patents than any other Japanese company for several years running.

Your whole premise is that 'sensor tech' is holding them back. Reality proves you wrong.

But hey, you go right on believing that the two stores you shopped in last week and the three photographer buddies you chatted with yesterday represent the market. Clearly, you like fantasy better than reality.
Your dissmissal attitude of others experience is just bold as usual, but that's just typical you and I am already getting used to it. If you depend on hard data, you should not try to guess, how many ppl I talk to and what kind of info and sources I have access to.

Of course I am talking about paradigm shifts. I am myself considering MILCs being a paradigm shift, even if DSLR sales were not affected ... yet. For me, in regards to Canon, the paradigm shifts (as of late - digital) were - 300D (letting ppl enter into affordable digital world), 5D II (videography), DPAF, R. The last one, is being held back by sensor tech (continuous AF).

Not considering MILC being a paradigm shift, might be a mistake in the long run imo. I watched the death of my favourite Commodore Amiga, later on Escom. Working for Amiga Review for 4 years as a main columnist, I did interviews with some top Amiga core team developers. The author of Amiga OS once told me something like - we once created a revolutionary product. Later on, we started to repackage old stuff. Somehow magically we have forgotten, that it was an innovation, which took us to the top positions in the first place.

The difference is, that you think, that the hard sales figures are the only thing, which matter in the long run, why I think, that it is an attitude towards an innovation, which might influence your future position.