A new EOS Rebel is coming this month, possibly an EOS Rebel T8i or entry level EOS M camera[CR1]

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
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If you depend on hard data, you should not try to guess, how many ppl I talk to and what kind of info and sources I have access to.
The market data represent millions of camera sales per year, Canon surveys thousands of users periodically. Both datasets are global. Unless you have comparable coverage of the market both numerically and geographically, your ‘info and sources’ are essentially irrelevant.

Of course I am talking about paradigm shifts. I am myself considering MILCs being a paradigm shift, even if DSLR sales were not affected ...
You seem unclear on the definition of a paradigm shift. ILC with mirror to ILC without mirror isn’t one. Not only were DSLR sales not affected, MILC sales have been essentially flat for as long as CIPA has tracked them as a category. But of course, you can certainly consider MILCs a paradigm shift if it helps you sleep at night. Lots of people convince themselves that lies are truth to make themselves feel better.


The difference is, that you think, that the hard sales figures are the only thing, which matter in the long run, why I think, that it is an attitude towards an innovation, which might influence your future position.
You keep harping on innovation. Objectively, Canon has a demonstrable attitude toward innovation. Canon was third for the number of US patents awarded in last year (top company in Japan), and has been in the top five companies worldwide for granted patents for 33 years running. But as long as you keep listing Canon’s innovations on that 2cm-wide scratchpad that supports your incredibly narrow thinking, you’ll go on believing they don’t innovate. Lots of people convince themselves that lies are truth to make themselves feel better.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
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In any more serious media, they are called "sponsors" ;)
I think ‘influencers’ is correct in this case. It’s just that @-pekr- is influenced primarily by the camera salesperson at his local shop, and by other photographers he runs into occasionally while out taking snapshots.
 
I think ‘influencers’ is correct in this case. It’s just that @-pekr- is influenced primarily by the camera salesperson at his local shop, and by other photographers he runs into occasionally while out taking snapshots.
Well, Neuro thinks I know 2-3 persons in the camera market, while I know actually 4. It makes a real difference and makes me an instant expert :)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
677
298
I spent a week with an EOS RP and RF24-105f/4.0L two weeks ago, and I have to say that if there is any singular reason to dive into the R series, its the strength of the lenses. They're unbelievable (in the limited exposure I had). The single biggest negative would be the lack of cross compatibility from the RF lenses back to something else. The lack of an RF-EF adapter makes sense because of the shorter flange distance. An RF to EF-M adapter is a little tougher - the difference in flange distance is only 2mm, but that still seems doable. But there must be a reason why Canon doesn't want to (or can't) make RF lenses usable on EF-M mount cameras like they did with EF mount lenses. Personally, I think that they have to view the M series mirrorless market - which is still pretty strong in Asia - as a completely separate market from the DSLR and R series mirrorless markets, with very little crossover. I am certain that I am an anomaly in that regard.

But it got me to thinking that the rumors of an APS-C R body would be an interesting development in the R mirrorless architecture, as it might fill in a little bit of a gap. Especially now that they've added a "consumer-level" (or at least non-L) lens in the RF 24-240 f/4.0-6.3, it makes me wonder if a small APS-C R body might be a decent seller. As with some of the initial kit offerings with the RP, Canon has also shown that they're not afraid to fill in the lens gaps by including a lens adapter and an EF lens.

So on a rumor scale of negative 50, SWAG (Some Wild Ass Guess) is that an R series Rebel mirrorless camera would be a suitable (and potentially logical) addition to the R series lineup, and potentially a good seller.
Because the R mount has a larger throat diameter than the EOS-M mount and because the lugs on the R mount protrude more than 2mm behind the flange surface, it is physically impossible to create a 2mm thick R to EOS-M adapter.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,040
375
Similarly, digital cameras were a paradigm shift, and in less than a decade the film camera market was effectively dead.

I wouldn’t go that far. It was a product revolution, not a paradigm shift. Mirrorless is a refinement.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Actually, a G7XmkIII might be really tempting for somebody who wants a family camera but doesn't want the relative bulk of a Rebel + 18-55mm kit lens.
Might be. But that's not what most of them go to Best Buy and get.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
677
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Go and sell those ppl just the same Rebel with the 2019 moniker then, they will hardly notice. I can tell you - more and more - M50 / M100 likes are your new Rebels, so once again - the last thing the world needs, is a new DSLR Rebel. Go, buy popcorn, sit down and watch the show ....
Canon has been doing just that, and making money doing it, for almost 20 years. The only difference between the Rebel T3i/600D and the Rebel T4i/650D was the rubber material used to make the hang grip. As long as it still makes money, they'll keep doing it.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Hard to believe the negativity here. The Rebel line has been very successful. It's become a very capable camera and a solid entry point into prosumer APS-C and full frame. How many of us started off on a Rebel? I used my 7 year old T2i until six months ago. Plenty of bloggers and Instagrammers, etc. are using Rebels very effectively. Also, the Rebel line has been used to test new tech, like the tilting screen, touch screen, DPAF, and even eye detect with the mirror up. Maybe they'll use it to test IBIS and BSI sensors. It's probably going to share a sensor with the 90D and successor to the M5/M50, offsetting dev costs. More important than raw tech for the casual user is probably advancements in UI and ease of use, maybe even AI assisted functions. And of course, it's designed to hit that $750 price target for those high volume Best Buy/Costco retail channels, while the 90D will probably come in closer to $1k.

The Rebel line is a lot of value and capability, with two decades of iterative improvement. It's going to sell. Chillax people. The middle finger that is the RP is what we should all still be upset about.
DPAF actually debuted with the 70D, not a Rebel/xx0D/xx00D body
 
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3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,040
375
the last thing the world needs, is a new DSLR Rebel.
The world has never needed a DSLR Rebel. Neither Canon nor any other consumer electronics company is in the business of producing what the world needs; rather they produce what they think consumers will buy.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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298
"We think the EOS Rebel T7i/800D/Kiss X9i is a little long in the tooth "

Yet Costco just a couple of months ago finally stopped selling the boxed kit with the T6 and started stocking the T7 box.
Which might mean a T8 is imminent?

Maybe this "Joey" is an EOS Rebel T8/2100D?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Seems to me that at least one potential purpose of the "next" Rebel is simply to have a "latest model" available for marketing purposes.

I'd expect most Rebels to be purchased either by people new to 'serious' photography, i.e. their first step into interchangeable lens territory, or perhaps by colleges.

For a number of first adopters (and I know a few, as I often get asked by people buying their first SLR) £250-350 is a lot of money - it's a new fridge, dishwasher, washing machine budget. For them, getting "the latest model" is an important part of the choice of what to purchase - the same reason that car manufacturers release new versions of essentially the same model every 4 years or so.

For someone making (for them) a significant consumer purchase, ensuring they buy something that will not shortly become obsolete (due to apparently being superseded - more experienced customers know it isn't actually obsolete ) really does seem to feature in their decision making. It should't matter, but it does. (Caveat: my limited experience of 'newbies' only).

If it is a new DSLR, I'd expect a refreshed model, with latest updates for features that are either as cheap, or better still cheaper, to manufacture, for the simple reason of being able to offer a "latest model" to new/future customers.
That's essentially what Canon has been doing with the Rebel/xx0D/xx00D line since they introduced the Digital Rebel/300D in 2003. They've probably sold more of them than all xD/x0D/MxD/Mx0D/Cx00D/etc. sales combined.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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298
Yes, indeed. Slcklick and others theoretising about average joy buying his next hamburger, not understanding the basic message of those complaining and answering the questions noone asked. Everybody and your mom knows, that most ppl buy stuff without emotional attachement. So why state the obvious? The basic message was not about why the world needs another Rebel. But why the world needs it NOW? So competition announces e.g. A7R IV and Canon is expected to come up with exactly what - next Rebel? Really great marketing reaction then ....
How many entry level ILCs does Sony sell? (Hint: 0)
How much profit does Sony make on entry level ILCs? (Hint; $0)
Who makes more profit on entry level ILCs, Canon or Sony? (Hint: Canon)
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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nobody will repair cheap, low-end digital cameras 4-5 years down the road. cost of labour is way to high.

inexpensive, functionally capable, excellent IQ, highly compact mirrorfree EOS M cameras are "by design" mechanically way more robust and reliable than any "Rebel with slapping mirror inside" which don't even offer AFMA to correct for minor AF misalignments.

Nobody disputes that Canon Rebel DSLRs and EF-S glass were an excellent entry point into photography 10 years ago. but today, in 2019 they are simply totally antiquated tech and mirrorfree EOS M plus great, well-affordable EF-M lenses is the only crop sensor system Canon needs to offer to get new buyers into their ecosystem and retain market leadership.
Nobody disputes that 1080P televisions were an excellent entry point into watching TV 10 years ago. But today, in 2019 they are simply totally antiquated tech and 4K/8K TVs are the only thing TV makers need to offer to get new buyers into their ecosystem and retain market leadership.

See how silly that sounds?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Neither of us knows, what Canon is thinking in particular, apart from some official memos. We can't be even sure, that the camera coming is a DSLR Rebel. My guess is, it is not. And if it is, and just mostly refurbishes old tech, then I just go - meh. Some ppl are fine with Canon being a sales leader, I would prefer Canon being a techology leader again. In the long term, it might make a difference. And I can bet, that Canon knows that too and new tech is around the corner ...
Who says the same company can't be both a sales leader *and* a technology leader?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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298
Neuro, Nokia probably had hard numbers too, before first iPhone was released, right? So much for your dependency upon the statistical "evidence".

I myself don't care much about the the tourists using an ILCs. If hammer could make an image, they would use hammer instead of the camera probably. I do care abou the ecosystem I live in - wedding photogs, studio groups, influencers. I know what kind of shift I am seeing in last cca five years.

I think that Canon knows, that at some point they need upgraded sensor tech. I bet that the new tech is in development for quite some time already, even if Canon might still be growing their numbers with recent tech. Based upon your logic of following only hard sales figures, there would not be much need for an innovation, or would it?
Which set of consumers buy more total cameras?
Which is a potentially more profitable market?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
677
298
I don't precisely know, who actually Kardashian is, but you seem to do. No wonder you limit the word "influencer" to social and tabloid media :)
And yet you somehow have your finger on the pulse of the global camera market?
 

canonical

EOS 80D
Jul 3, 2019
103
82
Out here in the real world there are a lot of BestBuy and Costco shoppers, and ‘normal’ people don’t have 2-3 cameras costing hundreds of dollars each tucked away in drawers.
there are more than enough people / households with a compact/Powershot and a "Rebel/Joey" plus kit lens sitting unused at home in some drawer. All they ever use today is their phones. For snaps and video.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
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there are more than enough people / households with a compact/Powershot and a "Rebel/Joey" plus kit lens sitting unused at home in some drawer. All they ever use today is their phones. For snaps and video.
I see that you haven’t yet figured out that when you have no evidence to support a claim, repeating that claim multiple times on a forum doesn’t make it true.
 
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