A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]

jolyonralph

EOS R Mark II
Aug 25, 2015
1,120
353
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
We'll see a 1DX Mark III no sooner than 2020 based on previous product cycles.

We'll probably not see a 5D Mark V until after that date too, and 6D Mark III 9 months after that.

So, any new FF mirrorless that Canon launches now is NOT going to be a direct replacement for any of these models.

The only model that is in need of an immediate refresh is the 5DS(R). A 5DSR replacement as a mirrorless could work very well. Except I think it's more likely the 5DSR II will be a normal mirrorslapper in a 5DIV shell.
 

Isaacheus

EOS RP
Jun 22, 2017
208
16
New Zealand
dak723 said:
KirkD said:
They are so far behind Sony, that it will be a miracle if their FF mirrorless can stop the massive Canon-to-Sony hemorrhaging that is bordering on avalanche status since the announcement of the "basic" A7III. I'm cheering Canon on, but with pretty much zero expectations they will be able to catch up to Sony within the next two years.
Yes, Canon is way behind Sony...except in color science.
Yes, Canon is way behind Sony...except in ergonomics.
Yes, Canon is way behind Sony...except in lens selection and quality.
Yes, Canon is way behind Sony...except in reliability.

Yes, I am cheering Sony on, but I doubt very much they will be able to catch up to Canon within the next two years.
I agree that Sony have a way to catch up in these areas, although I think there has been significant improvement in all these fronts over the gen 1 - 3 a7 series, and the gap has been closing, and the list is getting smaller too. Dual card slots and battery life used to be two of the main complaints, and those have been mostly address, at least to a point where it isn't an issue for the majority.

I'm hoping canon do the same in the areas where they are still behind, like they did with dynamic range in the 5dmk4
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
491
308
Don't expect the 1DXIII to be mirrorless but a new mirrorless action cam could do something that the 1DXII can't which is shoot at very high frame rates. Only people that don't use these cameras think 12 FPS is fast enough. There are times I'd like to shoot 3 or 4 times that fast and Canon is reaching the limits of just how fast they can move the mirror, focus and have a reasonably limited blackout period. That's a "killer app" I might be willing to trade an OVF for. Although the option to interchange between OVF and EVF depending on use would be the ideal solution.

Personally, I'm having trouble seeing what a mirrorless 5D or 6D can do that the current 5DIV and 6D2 can't. Certainly nothing that I'd be willing to give up the 5DIV's outstanding OVF for. I guess they would be better for shooting Video but still wouldn't be anywhere near as good as a dedicated cinema camera. Squinting at a little display screen in a black box through a magnifier is hardly a replacement for a high quality OVF (in my opinion). A hot shoe mounted EVF or an external touch screen (ie. C200) could be helpful for video. Of course you could also just buy a C200 for video.

I'll switch to mirrorless when it does most things better than an DSLR and we are a long way from there by my estimation.
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 12, 2016
586
272
Why do all of these leaks of information read like they were written by someone who was abducted into an alien spacecraft, drugged, and then shown a prototype camera?
 

IglooEater

EOS 6D MK II
Nov 15, 2014
904
0
Kit Lens Jockey said:
Why do all of these leaks of information read like they were written by someone who was abducted into an alien spacecraft, drugged, and then shown a prototype camera?
That's a fairly apt description... ;D

It makes me think that at least some of the leaks are done by people that have nothing to do with the actual development but rather manage somehow to be in the right room at the right time to see things they aren't supposed to. Say a janitor, a printer technician, or errand boy.
 

brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,349
121
S Florida
Kit Lens Jockey said:
Why do all of these leaks of information read like they were written by someone who was abducted into an alien spacecraft, drugged, and then shown a prototype camera?
Did I miss the part about anal probing?


I want to believe...
 

Orangutan

EOR R
Sep 25, 2010
2,140
3
brad-man said:
Kit Lens Jockey said:
Why do all of these leaks of information read like they were written by someone who was abducted into an alien spacecraft, drugged, and then shown a prototype camera?
Did I miss the part about...
That's not the sort of thing one can easily miss...perhaps you need to go to a recovered-memory specialist. :)
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,347
1,978
Irving, Texas
BillB said:
Orangutan said:
KirkD said:
the massive Canon-to-Sony hemorrhaging that is bordering on avalanche status since the announcement of the "basic" A7III.
I wasn't aware that sales figures were available yet...could you please link to the info?
Some of us have special cable packages that the rest of us can't get.
Y'all need to lay off KirkD. Those Sony guys all get one of these when they order the body and kit lens: https://www.amazon.com/Electro-Deflecto-Unisex-Foil-Size/dp/B01I497JAM

They get special facts direct from Alex Jones. Very. Special. Facts.

Sotrolls. ::)

BTW: The hat also prevents them calling Sony service centers to check on their gear sent in months ago or complain the thing still isn't fixed after 5 tries. Doubles as a rain cover too. ;)
 

eosuser1234

EOS 80D
Jul 16, 2013
138
18
Japan.
Sounds like my EOS M-5 with the markings taped over with black masking tape.

Interesting will be if the same camera is made with EF-m and EF mount. EF mount would be simply the same with the adaptor built into the camera.

The EF-M mount would include the adaptor.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
eosuser1234 said:
Sounds like my EOS M-5 with the markings taped over with black masking tape.
Well the image is obviously not real :)

Unless Canon FF MILC is really just a rebadged Leica :)
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images2000x2000/leica_19000_q_typ_116_digital_1160027.jpg

eosuser1234 said:
Interesting will be if the same camera is made with EF-m and EF mount. EF mount would be simply the same with the adaptor built into the camera.

The EF-M mount would include the adaptor.
I sure hope that it's not a EF-M mount (which is almost exactly the same size as the Sony E mount). It's a PITA mount that doesn't do anything positive for most lenses, and the only thing it accomplishes is to make almost every lens longer.

If they don't sell one with a permanent EF mount, they probably won't have much luck selling the camera to me :)
 

jolyonralph

EOS R Mark II
Aug 25, 2015
1,120
353
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
Talys said:
I sure hope that it's not a EF-M mount (which is almost exactly the same size as the Sony E mount). It's a PITA mount that doesn't do anything positive for most lenses, and the only thing it accomplishes is to make almost every lens longer.
Not when you factor in the shorter flange distance. Plus it does allow different designs that take advantage of the shorter distance, such as my two favourite FE lenses, the Sony Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and the amazing Sony Zeiss 55mm f/1.8

I dream of having a Canon lens and body combination that provides the superb quality of the 55mm 1.8 along with the ultra-light weight.
 

Diko

7 fps...
Apr 27, 2011
433
5
37
Sofia, Bulgaria
My take:

There'll be an FF MILC: Advanced ONLY in the beginning reflecting the current 5D(s) and 1Dx DSLRs' features and options. At least half of the colleagues want to jump to FF MILC. I want it as well. Later on the cheaper more user-friendly , but limited in functionality versions would appear as well.

Canon are NOT ready to launch a pro series body with new (M or not) class lenses. So they are stuck with the EF mounts. That means there' will be either built-in distance sensor-glass or (more likely) there'll be additional to buy adapter.

I don't expect anything before 2019-2020. ;-)
 

LDS

EOR R
Sep 14, 2012
1,593
164
jolyonralph said:
I simply don't believe that Canon would develop a new autofocus camera and make it incompatible with FD lenses. The FD line is too big and valuable to abandon and start new.
That would have been true if you don't take into account the very different state of the FD mount back then, and the EF now. The "new FD" was the third evolution of what was the Canon R mount (1959), going through FL and FD improvements. It had fully mechanical couplings, one of shortest flange distance, and a relatively small diameter.

Canon made an attempt to retrofit AF to FD lenses with the T80 and its AC lenses. Canon believed that the AF motor was to be in the lens, not in the camera with another mechanical coupling. But it didn't like the result, and went for a new mount.

That's why it designed the larger EF mounts, and gave it only electrical signals couplings. That makes the mount still actual - even if a shorter flange distance could be used for a mirrorless camera.
 

Woody

EOS 6D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
1,143
43
Canon Rumors said:
There is nothing on the 2018 road map that suggests Canon will be announcing a full frame mirrorless camera this year, though that could still change between now and Photokina, but we put the possibility of this happening quite low.
Hmmm... Thom Hogan says otherwise:

"... Canon will be headed into the full frame mirrorless arena at Photokina, and Nikon will launch their "basic camera to expect more from" as mirrorless full frame by the Christmas buying season...

Nobody's going to fault you for buying a Sony A7III. It'll take great pictures, I'm sure. But it also isn't going to launch your fame and fortune because it lets you do things that you were never able to do with competitive products. It's a basic model.

And it will have competitors by the end of the year.

And that's the way it is."
- http://sansmirror.com/newsviews/wind-in-the-sony-marketing.html
 

Chaitanya

EOS 6D MK II
Jun 27, 2013
1,148
232
33
Pune
bwud said:
Woody said:
- http://sansmirror.com/newsviews/wind-in-the-sony-marketing.html
Boy, there are some ridiculous people out there.
ByThom summarised presstitute behaviour nicely regarding sony's launches. Sure there are some good features on A7 III which should have been incorporated by Dumb Canon on 6D mk 2 but there are some compromises with FF MILC most prominently after adding "pro" lenses they are no longer smaller or more portable than FF DSLR. It seems like these presstitutes are too eager to cover end up doing job of Sony Marketing team. This is excluding all the coverage on youtube and "positive" reviews given based on the fact that sony pays for their trips and the so called real world scenarios are all controlled by Sony.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,058
329
Vancouver, BC
jolyonralph said:
Talys said:
I sure hope that it's not a EF-M mount (which is almost exactly the same size as the Sony E mount). It's a PITA mount that doesn't do anything positive for most lenses, and the only thing it accomplishes is to make almost every lens longer.
Not when you factor in the shorter flange distance. Plus it does allow different designs that take advantage of the shorter distance, such as my two favourite FE lenses, the Sony Zeiss 35mm f/2.8 and the amazing Sony Zeiss 55mm f/1.8

I dream of having a Canon lens and body combination that provides the superb quality of the 55mm 1.8 along with the ultra-light weight.
Yes, there will be like, 5 lens+camera combos that are smaller. But there will be 50+ where the total package size is not any smaller, but the lenses are significantly larger. No thanks.

Plus, there are a lot of 1DXII's sold to people that primarily use lenses that are in the 1.5kg+ category.

And finally, the last thing in the world I want are $2,000 focus by wire lenses like Sony has.
 

bwud

EOS RP
Sep 3, 2014
305
10
Chaitanya said:
ByThom summarised presstitute behaviour
Hah, that’s a great term. I wonder if Sony’s promotions team (I try not to conflate that with marketing, of which it is merely a small part) has managed to build up a sycophantic media following, or whether this is just indicative of the sensational, hysteria style reporting which has become so ubiquitous in the press at large.