Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

May 31, 2015
2
0
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Batman6794 said:
One piece of your post I do disagree with: If you spend 1500 dollars from the business, that is 1500 that is not profit, and therefore not taxed. You should only be paying taxes on profits. If your accountant tells you something different, get another accountant.
Wow..you do need a lesson. If i make $1500 revenue and spend $1500 on capital/3 year amortized sw, i owe taxes on $1000.

If I make $1500 revenue and spend $1500 on expense, i owe nothing.

If your accountant tell you differently, get a different accountant
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,913
1,056
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Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Batman6794 said:
I do disagree with your original assertion that adobe would be happy to lose a customer because they are not the type they are after, and your second assertion that the subscription is designed to cater to pros...
Then read the financial projections Adobe put to the market when they proposed the model switch. They specifically said they would make less money for three to five years and that they needed to normalise cash flow from their core business, businesses, governments and the like.

And don't forget, the new model was brought about because the old model was proven to be unsustainable, Adobe themselves suffered from inconsistent cash flows that forced them into looking for new ways to work.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,913
1,056
119
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Famateur said:
Just finished the video. Think I'll sit this one out for now. Here's why:

1. The tree for the destination folder is gone.
2. I have no use for the Add Photos screen, preferring the From panel.
3. I always use what is now collapsed in the Gear icon and don't want to click it.*
4. I don't see any new features**, just a new look and lost functionality.

The new Import seems geared more to novices than to power users, confusing visual efficiency for workflow efficiency. Is the majority of their user base overwhelmed with too many options at once? Just seems like they tried to make it a linear wizard. Good for novices, not so much for power users.

If Adobe was listening, here's what I'd request:

1) Make Import its own module, just like Library, Develop, etc. Maintain the same interface design philosophy as the other modules (and legacy import) and include all the advanced features.

2) Include an icon within the Import Module to toggle between Wizard View and Advanced View. Wizard View is the simplified version to accomplish whatever prompted Adobe to make the change to the import for LR6.2.

The above would make it feel more like the rest of Lightroom and satisfy both power users and novices that might be overwhelmed by all the detailed options available to them.

Question for PBD: Does resorting to legacy mode maintain the missing destination folder tree, Move option and other lost functionality? I might consider upgrading if it does, but then I'm gambling on how long that option will be available.

* Is this the start of a move away from the side-docking/hiding menus throughout LR? I hope not. I quite like them and losing that consistency in the import dialog feels disjointed to me.

** Okay, maybe scanning my system for images is a new feature...which I'd promptly disable...like I did face-recognition (seems like Adobe is adopting features from Picasa). In the video, it looks like it's just an on/off. Can it be fine-tuned (like Picasa :p) to select which drives and folders are scanned?
Not by the looks of it. I have switched off the new screen in preferences and if you push Option or Control in the import mode you do get better options, but nothing like what we have lost.

Which I find strange and annoying, Adobe have tied themselves in knots in the past maintaining legacy tools and workflows to maintain familiarity for current users. The new import screen gets a big thumbs down from me after using it for a couple of days shooting and importing in the studio.

I hope that there will be enough kickback to reintroduce a good few of the missing options on future upgrades. Very frustrating and poor performance for Adobe.
 

Batman6794

I'm New Here
Feb 26, 2015
24
16
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

zigipha said:
Batman6794 said:
One piece of your post I do disagree with: If you spend 1500 dollars from the business, that is 1500 that is not profit, and therefore not taxed. You should only be paying taxes on profits. If your accountant tells you something different, get another accountant.
Wow..you do need a lesson. If i make $1500 revenue and spend $1500 on capital/3 year amortized sw, i owe taxes on $1000.

If I make $1500 revenue and spend $1500 on expense, i owe nothing.

If your accountant tell you differently, get a different accountant
You might wanna read what I've said before you disagree with it. Software can only be capital if the license is transferable, which an adobe license is not, so it would still be expense, as I stated a few posts back.

But since it is a lessor expense overtime, you're coming out ahead. (Just not in the first year.)

I said nothing of depreciation in the post you quoted. What makes you think I would apply it in this model?

I only mentioned capital to illustrate that the categories are capital and expense, not capital and leasing.
 

Batman6794

I'm New Here
Feb 26, 2015
24
16
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

privatebydesign said:
Batman6794 said:
I do disagree with your original assertion that adobe would be happy to lose a customer because they are not the type they are after, and your second assertion that the subscription is designed to cater to pros...
Then read the financial projections Adobe put to the market when they proposed the model switch. They specifically said they would make less money for three to five years and that they needed to normalise cash flow from their core business, businesses, governments and the like.

And don't forget, the new model was brought about because the old model was proven to be unsustainable, Adobe themselves suffered from inconsistent cash flows that forced them into looking for new ways to work.
Your logic is so flawed. The that Adobe expects to lose a customer doesn't mean they're happy to.

Also the fact that the old model is unsustainable doesn't mean that in the new model they're only going after a specific segment of customers. Only that their method of selling to all of their customers is changing.
 

Famateur

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 9, 2012
774
88
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

privatebydesign said:
Famateur said:
Just finished the video. Think I'll sit this one out for now. Here's why:

1. The tree for the destination folder is gone.
2. I have no use for the Add Photos screen, preferring the From panel.
3. I always use what is now collapsed in the Gear icon and don't want to click it.*
4. I don't see any new features**, just a new look and lost functionality.

The new Import seems geared more to novices than to power users, confusing visual efficiency for workflow efficiency. Is the majority of their user base overwhelmed with too many options at once? Just seems like they tried to make it a linear wizard. Good for novices, not so much for power users.

If Adobe was listening, here's what I'd request:

1) Make Import its own module, just like Library, Develop, etc. Maintain the same interface design philosophy as the other modules (and legacy import) and include all the advanced features.

2) Include an icon within the Import Module to toggle between Wizard View and Advanced View. Wizard View is the simplified version to accomplish whatever prompted Adobe to make the change to the import for LR6.2.

The above would make it feel more like the rest of Lightroom and satisfy both power users and novices that might be overwhelmed by all the detailed options available to them.

Question for PBD: Does resorting to legacy mode maintain the missing destination folder tree, Move option and other lost functionality? I might consider upgrading if it does, but then I'm gambling on how long that option will be available.

* Is this the start of a move away from the side-docking/hiding menus throughout LR? I hope not. I quite like them and losing that consistency in the import dialog feels disjointed to me.

** Okay, maybe scanning my system for images is a new feature...which I'd promptly disable...like I did face-recognition (seems like Adobe is adopting features from Picasa). In the video, it looks like it's just an on/off. Can it be fine-tuned (like Picasa :p) to select which drives and folders are scanned?
Not by the looks of it. I have switched off the new screen in preferences and if you push Option or Control in the import mode you do get better options, but nothing like what we have lost.

Which I find strange and annoying, Adobe have tied themselves in knots in the past maintaining legacy tools and workflows to maintain familiarity for current users. The new import screen gets a big thumbs down from me after using it for a couple of days shooting and importing in the studio.

I hope that there will be enough kickback to reintroduce a good few of the missing options on future upgrades. Very frustrating and poor performance for Adobe.
Thanks for the info! Agreed on thumbs down. Gonna wait to see if/how Adobe responds. Gonna need to see some big-time features added for me to update from 6.1.1 at this point.

Maybe now is a good time to submit my ideas... :p
 

Famateur

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 9, 2012
774
88
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

infared said:
I look for realism and quality in the shadows. The LR HDR program was giving me lots of noise in the shadows and even huge color shifts. The LR and Photoshop HDR software programs both are very rudimentary and are lackluster on controls, in my experience. I also found the LR HDR to be massively SLOW...and that was with photos from my Micro Four Thirds cameras (much smaller files and therefore much less information to process)...not my full-frame Canon. I did not bother suffering through any FF images in the LR HDR. Plus we do not know much about the files that the Adobe programs are processing??? Are they 16 or 32 bit. I use 32bit Photomatix. There are lots of comparisons out on the web. Here is a basic one here.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v7HqcubeWkg

LR has a lot of strengths...HDR is not one of them.
Thanks for the video link. My first impression was that I preferred his LR version (for color). On my calibrated monitor (and browser), the Photomatix version seemed a little muted (particularly the sky).

The detail difference was the most interesting, and I'd have to agree that it's a bit of a deal-breaker in his comparison. I wonder if/how it might change playing with the ghosting settings. Perhaps detail in the whole image is suffering from the de-ghosting? It's given me something to look for in my own images and something to test.

That said, there have been times I've obtained much better results with something others have complained about, so now that I know a couple things to look for, I'll do my own tests before making a conclusion.

Thanks again...
 

Famateur

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 9, 2012
774
88
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

JonAustin said:
Famateur said:
Just thought of a feature I'd like: Undo (remove) a specific step from the History without losing all the steps that came after it (or can I already do this and just don't know?). Or be able to switch off a step as an additional alternative to removing it.
I would love this feature, as well, and have searched exhaustively for a way to do it, but don't think it's possible.
Probably because the results produced by each step in the history depends on the state of the image based on the step immediately before it, and the ability to remove any step from the sequence might result in wildly unexpected or physically / logically impossible results. It still would be nice to have, since you could (theoretically) always undo it, if you didn't like the results.
You might be right. Since everything is non-destructive, though, it would seem to me that with (perhaps complex) calculations, the relative impact of switching on/off a step in the history could be computed with predictable results. Maybe it's a processing overhead issue where it just takes too long to re-calculate all the newer actions. Sure would love to know what the engineers at Adobe have to say about it! :p
 

Famateur

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 9, 2012
774
88
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Famateur said:
JonAustin said:
Famateur said:
Just thought of a feature I'd like: Undo (remove) a specific step from the History without losing all the steps that came after it (or can I already do this and just don't know?). Or be able to switch off a step as an additional alternative to removing it.
I would love this feature, as well, and have searched exhaustively for a way to do it, but don't think it's possible.
Probably because the results produced by each step in the history depends on the state of the image based on the step immediately before it, and the ability to remove any step from the sequence might result in wildly unexpected or physically / logically impossible results. It still would be nice to have, since you could (theoretically) always undo it, if you didn't like the results.
You might be right. Since everything is non-destructive, though, it would seem to me that with (perhaps complex) calculations, the relative impact of switching on/off a step in the history could be computed with predictable results. Maybe it's a processing overhead issue where it just takes too long to re-calculate all the newer actions. Sure would love to know what the engineers at Adobe have to say about it! :p
With a little more pondering, I'm thinking the main challenge is to link associated actions with a hierarchy of dependency. For example, everything that belongs to a particular local adjustment brush pin would be turned off if the history item of adding that adjustment is turned off. Seems pretty doable. Would SO love this feature...
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Famateur said:
Famateur said:
JonAustin said:
Famateur said:
Just thought of a feature I'd like: Undo (remove) a specific step from the History without losing all the steps that came after it (or can I already do this and just don't know?). Or be able to switch off a step as an additional alternative to removing it.
I would love this feature, as well, and have searched exhaustively for a way to do it, but don't think it's possible.
Probably because the results produced by each step in the history depends on the state of the image based on the step immediately before it, and the ability to remove any step from the sequence might result in wildly unexpected or physically / logically impossible results. It still would be nice to have, since you could (theoretically) always undo it, if you didn't like the results.
You might be right. Since everything is non-destructive, though, it would seem to me that with (perhaps complex) calculations, the relative impact of switching on/off a step in the history could be computed with predictable results. Maybe it's a processing overhead issue where it just takes too long to re-calculate all the newer actions. Sure would love to know what the engineers at Adobe have to say about it! :p
With a little more pondering, I'm thinking the main challenge is to link associated actions with a hierarchy of dependency. For example, everything that belongs to a particular local adjustment brush pin would be turned off if the history item of adding that adjustment is turned off. Seems pretty doable. Would SO love this feature...
Yah, it SEEMS like that wouldn't be too difficult, considering LR is already a non-destructive editing tool. Hell, I can add adjustments to adjustments to adjustments using phone software (snapseed) and remove intermediate steps at will.
 
Jul 15, 2015
10
0
www.dennirussel.com
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

JonAustin said:
Famateur said:
Just thought of a feature I'd like: Undo (remove) a specific step from the History without losing all the steps that came after it (or can I already do this and just don't know?). Or be able to switch off a step as an additional alternative to removing it.
I would love this feature, as well, and have searched exhaustively for a way to do it, but don't think it's possible.
Probably because the results produced by each step in the history depends on the state of the image based on the step immediately before it, and the ability to remove any step from the sequence might result in wildly unexpected or physically / logically impossible results. It still would be nice to have, since you could (theoretically) always undo it, if you didn't like the results.
It depends on the kind of thing you want to undo - you can always 'undo' a specific edit, or set of edits simply by resetting that particular edit. Do you have an example of something you'd like to be able to 'undo' to?
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

dennirussel said:
Do you have an example of something you'd like to be able to 'undo' to?
As I interpret the request: anything. Choose an edit in the middle of the history, and delete it without causing all the edits above to be deleted.

I frequently crank the exposure to the right so I can see things better for certain operations. Then, once I've finished, I want to return to the correct exposure. So I go down the the state before I cranked it to the right, then I go back to the top and set the exposure. Would be nice to just delete that edit.

dennirussel said:
It depends on the kind of thing you want to undo - you can always 'undo' a specific edit, or set of edits simply by resetting that particular edit.
Does the reset button only apply to the current edit? I always thought it was global.
 

JustMeOregon

EOS 80D
Sep 10, 2013
146
0
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

I remember asking myself on Monday afternoon if I should wait a while before upgrading to LR 6.2, but I've been having so much success with the global Dehaze adjustment on my Milky Way pics that I just couldn't wait to play with the editable (local adjustment) version. Now I have to add my cries to the growing chorus... LR 6.2 is TOTALLY unusable on my iMac running OSX 10.9.4. The few times that crashes & freezes are not immediately crippling me when I start LR, then the simplest click of the mouse will soon take a minute or more to register! I'll finally have to Force Quit for my sanity's sake...

This has been my only big upgrade issue I've had with Adobe in a long time; if I dig deep enough in my garage I bet I can still find the set floppies for Photoshop 2.5 (I believe that it was the first version to allow working with Layers) -- Adobe & I have had a long and happy relationship... So I'm going to try to remain calm and take the wife to the coast for a photo-weekend (supposed to be some big wave-action)... When we get back on Monday night, if there isn't an update waiting to be downloaded (that has already successfully fixed everyone's LR problems) it'll be back to version 6.1.1 for me...
 
Jul 15, 2015
10
0
www.dennirussel.com
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

3kramd5 said:
dennirussel said:
Do you have an example of something you'd like to be able to 'undo' to?
As I interpret the request: anything. Choose an edit in the middle of the history, and delete it without causing all the edits above to be deleted.

I frequently crank the exposure to the right so I can see things better for certain operations. Then, once I've finished, I want to return to the correct exposure. So I go down the the state before I cranked it to the right, then I go back to the top and set the exposure. Would be nice to just delete that edit.

dennirussel said:
It depends on the kind of thing you want to undo - you can always 'undo' a specific edit, or set of edits simply by resetting that particular edit.
Does the reset button only apply to the current edit? I always thought it was global.
In that case, it's actually pretty easy to undo any edit non-sequentially :). For an exposure adjustment, all you have to do is move the slider back. It won't undo any of the edits you did afterwards. It's as easy to do as it is to click on a particular history state. That's the approach for many of the edits.

When it comes to editing order, try starting off with White Balance and doing everything else afterwards. WB adjustments will impact exposure, so getting that right first will minimize edit requirements down stream.

While there is a global reset, many of the individual tools have their own reset button. Every tool in the Develop tool bar (crop, spot removal, red eye, graduated filter, radial filter and adjustment brush) has its own reset button. The spot removal tool even lets you delete specific 'heals' by clicking on a spot circle and pressing delete.

Does this help at all?
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
404
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

dennirussel said:
3kramd5 said:
dennirussel said:
Do you have an example of something you'd like to be able to 'undo' to?
As I interpret the request: anything. Choose an edit in the middle of the history, and delete it without causing all the edits above to be deleted.

I frequently crank the exposure to the right so I can see things better for certain operations. Then, once I've finished, I want to return to the correct exposure. So I go down the the state before I cranked it to the right, then I go back to the top and set the exposure. Would be nice to just delete that edit.

dennirussel said:
It depends on the kind of thing you want to undo - you can always 'undo' a specific edit, or set of edits simply by resetting that particular edit.
Does the reset button only apply to the current edit? I always thought it was global.
In that case, it's actually pretty easy to undo any edit non-sequentially :). For an exposure adjustment, all you have to do is move the slider back.
Yah, that's what I do, but it adds another step in the history which affects performance (obviously not noticeable in a single photo, but in a multi-hundred-thousand image library, it adds up).

dennirussel said:
While there is a global reset, many of the individual tools have their own reset button. Every tool in the Develop tool bar (crop, spot removal, red eye, graduated filter, radial filter and adjustment brush) has its own reset button. The spot removal tool even lets you delete specific 'heals' by clicking on a spot circle and pressing delete.

Does this help at all?
You can delete individual heal/clones and adjustment brushes, radial filters, gradients, etc, but if you hit reset on the adjustment brush tool, doesn't it reset all of the adjustment brushes? That's what I mean by global reset. I could be wrong; I'm not looking at it and going from memory.


The feature request is to eliminate the need to workaround by facilitating directly deleting something from the middle of the history. Again, it *seems* to me (a non-programmer) that since it's a non-destructive environment, that should be a pretty simple thing to implement.
 

AvTvM

EOS 5D MK IV
Nov 4, 2011
3,165
0
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

3kramd5 said:
The feature request is to eliminate the need to workaround by facilitating directly deleting something from the middle of the history. Again, it *seems* to me (a non-programmer) that since it's a non-destructive environment, that should be a pretty simple thing to implement.
It is a limitation of LR's very program design. Easier, more intuitive user interface but still non-destructive editing with an "edit history stack" versus Photoshops' much more complex user interface and "layer concept" (including "adjustment layers").

Occasionally I also run into the problem that i would like to reverse some earlier edit step edit in LR. Usually I also just reverse/change the settings of a specific edit action via the respective slider.

The tip to start off with WB adjustments is good. It is also usually my first action. Other than tha, I always do global settings first, local touches later in the process.
 

KBStudio

EOS T7i
Oct 24, 2013
64
0
www.kimbrunstudio.com
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Finally succeeded in returning to LR 6.1.1. What an ordeal. Adobe has really buried the 6.1.1 update. Here is the link https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/07/lightroom-6-1-1-is-now-available.html
 

JustMeOregon

EOS 80D
Sep 10, 2013
146
0
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

Today's update to Lr 6.2.1 seems to have solved the (extreme) problems I was having with (6.2's) stability & performance. Even the new import panel doesn't seem that bad...
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,526
755
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

AvTvM said:
@Private: looks like Adobe is sorely missing my business and my Euros ... and that of millions other amateurs, enthusiastas, semi-Pro's and Pro's who are also refusing to RENT from them, but would be willing to continue BUYING from them, if Adobe were to SELL the goods [e.g. De-Haze, global, local] ...
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/06/us-adobe-outlook-idUSKCN0S02P720151006

Looking forward to their full year numbers. :eek: ;D
I read the article. The Strong Dollar is the main reason for declining revenues. You get less US dollars from International customers with a strong dollar.

The second reason was the transition of the last segment of their software business to the web based subscription.

I would, however, expect sales to follow the pattern of camera sales in general. DSLR Camera sales are dropping, so the need for high end software drops as well.

Its a triple Whammy, and hardly to be blamed on customers not moving to the subscription mode.

We would see other software makers increasing business substantially if Adobe customers were going elsewhere.
 

Kathode-Ray

Shoot, shoot, shoot!
Jun 29, 2012
66
2
Re: Adobe Releases Lightroom 6.2 & CC 2015.2

KBStudio said:
Finally succeeded in returning to LR 6.1.1. What an ordeal. Adobe has really buried the 6.1.1 update. Here is the link https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2015/07/lightroom-6-1-1-is-now-available.html
Here's a link with all the direct downloads listed: http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-lightroom-6-cc-direct-download-links.html

Very handy for a stand-alone Lightroom user such as myself. I rolled back to 6.1.1 yesterday :)