APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1]

Canon Rumors Guy

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
7,534
289
Canada
www.canonrumors.com
Canon’s prosumer APS-C DSLRs the EOS 7D Mark II and the EOS 80D are both quite long in the tooth.  Unfortunately, there has been very little information about their replacements.
Canon has mentioned that DSLR development will continue for the foreseeable future, which is good news for every Canon shooter that doesn’t have interest in a mirrorless camera at this time. No new EF lenses are coming in 2019, but a few DSLRs definitely are.
Which new DSLRs are coming?

I’m not sure what to make of the recent bit of information we have received, but we’re told that the APS-C DSLR lineup will shrink in model numbers and that the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II cameras will be amalgamated into one DSLR body. The EOS 77D will remain the DSLR above the Rebels, and perhaps an update to the EOS 77D is also coming.
We’ve seen an amalgamation from Canon before, and that was with the release of the EOS-1D X. That camera took the place of the EOS-1Ds Mark III and the APS-S H specced EOS-1D Mark IV...
Continue reading...
 
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Mr Majestyk

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2016
129
39
Sounds like a downgrade is coming and Nikon need not worry about upgrading the D500. So there will be no 300 f/2.8L III or 500 f/4L III this year or at all for EF. Makes little sense to release just the 400 and 600 in EF.
 
Reactions: nitram
Jan 15, 2019
1
0
I hope there is a replacement for one or the other in the next few months. Looking for my new ESO to replace my 650d for a big trip and one with a high frame rate.
 

JonSnow

EOS 80D
Sep 10, 2018
148
100
with mirrorless aps-c doing 20-30 fps now and becoming a real competition when it comes to focusing.... why buying a mirrorslapper?

i would love to see a high-end mirrorless aps-c with 20 fps and great focusing for BIF.
 
Reactions: nitram
Mar 14, 2012
2,268
155
Sounds like a downgrade is coming and Nikon need not worry about upgrading the D500. So there will be no 300 f/2.8L III or 500 f/4L III this year or at all for EF. Makes little sense to release just the 400 and 600 in EF.
Who knows what Canon will do? Canon released the 30 f/2 IS, 28 f/2.8 IS and 24 f/2.8 IS, and people were hoping that the 50 f/1.4 and 85 f/1.8 would get the same treatment... and we got nothing even after all these years.
 

jebrady03

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 2, 2011
529
22
40
Sarasota, FL
It sounds to me like the 7D Mark 3 will have a non-fixed touch screen (Tilt? Articulating?) and that the successor to the 77D will be slightly more upmarket to fill the void of the 80D. 80D folks? They're moving you to RF mount with a heavy reliance on the adapter!
Initially, you'd think they'd move 7D Mark II folks to mirrorless but Canon hasn't yet advanced their AF/FPS and sensor read speed to that level yet. At least, not at the profit margin they'd require so it'll be 4-5 more years of CLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACKCLACK for y'all.
 

YuengLinger

EOR R
Dec 20, 2012
2,320
340
Southeastern USA
I'm fond of my 80D. It's the go-to camera for family walks, to have with me at all times. It's great performance and many types of use make up for its bulk compared to smaller mirrorless cameras. And this might be why it would be the first dSLR to go. It is good enough for many enthusiast photographers, and small enough for casual photographers.

The 7D line, however, is targeted towards action photographers, so I could understand it going one more generation. Maybe we'll see a well-built 7DIII with a better sensor and a flip screen? Improved Live-View, maybe a few ounces lighter, a little bit smaller, and a few hundred less than the initial price of the 7DII. Done.

It might be some time before an EVF is truly as good or better than an OVF for birds in flight and other fast action photography.

Meanwhile, 80D customers will be pushed to entry level FF RF bodies or to M series bodies.
 

hendrik-sg

EOS RP
Apr 21, 2011
246
20
If AF Performance is not yet on pro level, it could mean, that the replacements for 1DXii and 7Dii might be DSLR's. But 80D and 5DS have no reason to not be RF mount bodies. For the small cameras, M seems to be the format which allows systems to be small (and cheap). if somebody wants to upgrade to more pro, loosing the M-kit lens is not a big loss in general context and it still can play backup with the older M-Camera.

At the moment APSC DSLR's are cheaper than their equivalent MILC counterparts, which makes no sense, a MILC should be cheaper to be produced. For this reason, it should be no problem to replace them by MILC's except loosing the "coolness surcharge", but this one will get lost anyways, as soon as all cool guys have spend their early adopters fee, or it will go to not loose the market to phones even more fast (as now the cheap DSLR's try)

Actually, a APSC DSLR makes not much sense, if paired with it's slow kit lens only, a G7 can do the same (smaller sensor but brighter lens) and is by far smaller. So this are powerfull small tools, which can be beaten only by big glass,
 

criscokkat

EOS 80D
Sep 26, 2017
187
162
Madison, WI
I can't imagine the 7D Mk III not getting the fold out screen like the 80D and R. If the rumors are true, the a7000 is getting the 925 focusing system. If this is to be the last DSLR aps-c pro like camera I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a 1dx focusing engine in it.
 

criscokkat

EOS 80D
Sep 26, 2017
187
162
Madison, WI
If AF Performance is not yet on pro level, it could mean, that the replacements for 1DXii and 7Dii might be DSLR's. But 80D and 5DS have no reason to not be RF mount bodies. For the small cameras, M seems to be the format which allows systems to be small (and cheap). if somebody wants to upgrade to more pro, loosing the M-kit lens is not a big loss in general context and it still can play backup with the older M-Camera.

At the moment APSC DSLR's are cheaper than their equivalent MILC counterparts, which makes no sense, a MILC should be cheaper to be produced. For this reason, it should be no problem to replace them by MILC's except loosing the "coolness surcharge", but this one will get lost anyways, as soon as all cool guys have spend their early adopters fee, or it will go to not loose the market to phones even more fast (as now the cheap DSLR's try)
The cost of a prism (or mirror), a motor to flip it up out of the way, and some glass to show the image in the viewfinder is way less than the cost of the hardware needed to provide a high resolution small screen. The bodies of the smaller cameras need more expensive materials to keep them sturdy, and the cost of the material to actually make the shell of the body is fractions of a penny difference between a top of the line camera and a cheap one. I don't know why this rumor of how mirrorless is cheaper than DSLR's got started, but it's getting old. At some point that may be the case if high pixel count very small displays become a mainstream thing with augmented reality glasses but until that time they are niche.
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,059
230
Canon should keep making the 77D or 80D but the 7DIII should be an Eos-R camera. Canon need to start moving customers to mirrorless. An APS-C high frame rate , silent shutter , good focusing system , two cards would help push lens sales.
Then also have some entry level APS-C mirrorless Cameras and drop the M series which no longer have a real future.
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
832
162
I think it’s likely that Canon is unsure of its near future roadmap because the technology and market is changing so quickly. Plans that have been in place are being scrapped for new strawman plans as the market is evolving. Canon will need to become faster at camera evolutions to keep up with competitors. These confusing and changing rumors are likely a result of some internal turmoil at Canon.
 
"We’ve seen an amalgamation from Canon before, and that was with the release of the EOS-1D X. That camera took the place of the EOS-1Ds Mark III and the APS-S H specced EOS-1D Mark IV."

There is another way to look at that "amalgamation" — and it suggests that it wasn't an amalgamation as much as a reordering.

The 1Ds series was initially the slower-buy-highest-megapixel Canon DSLR series. These were great cameras whose features appealed strongly to photographers such as those doing certain kinds of studio work and to landscape photographers – where absolutely speed as a bit less important than highest possible image quality. The 1Ds provided full frame sensors with then state-of-the-art high MP numbers. All other Canon DSLR cameras at that time used 1.3x or 1.6x cropped sensors

With the advent of the 5D series, which was (and arguably still is in some ways) a lower-level camera system in the Canon line-up, something interesting happened. Many (I don't have numbers, but I'd guess "most") photographers who had used the 1Ds bodies for their higher image quality potential realized that they could get the same image quality from the 5D series at a much lower price, and that for most of them the supposed disadvantages (lesser AF capability, smaller body, etc.) were not worth that added cost of the 1Ds models.

The 1Ds disappeared not because Canon "merged" it with the faster-and-lower-MP version of the 1-series cameras (though that was Canon's marketing line) but because buyers of the high MP systems mostly didn't see value the the 1Ds series provided over the 5D series cameras. Those users did not (at least not in significant numbers) shift from the 1Ds to the newer "amalgamated" 1Dx — they moved to the 5DII, 5DIII, 5DIV, and — especially — the high MP 5DsR.

What we currently in the Canon line-up, insofar as the cloudy picture begins to clear a bit, is less about downsizing the number of "serious" camera bodies and more about managing a multi-year transition from DSLR models to highly capable mirrorless camera systems. Clearly, Canon cannot instantly delete the entire DSLR line-up and equally quickly boot up a full, viable mirrorless line-up. This is a transitional process that is likely to take a period of years. And during that period we can expect to see a trajectory that diminishes the number of DSLR options as it increases the number of (and capability of) the replacement mirrorless models.

G Dan Mitchell
 

nchoh

EOS 80D
Apr 3, 2018
198
103
Calgary
Sounds like a downgrade is coming and Nikon need not worry about upgrading the D500. So there will be no 300 f/2.8L III or 500 f/4L III this year or at all for EF. Makes little sense to release just the 400 and 600 in EF.
That would be good news for Nikon as thay are currently only selling one Nikon for every 2 Canon DSLRs.
 

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
820
199
Turku, Finland
With the 77D series of cameras, it might indeed make sense to end the x0D/7D split and return to a single enthusiast/prosumer APS-C line. Canon bumped the 60D down a bit too much (no AFMA!) and the 70D and the 80D have crept back upward in the lineup. That would, however, mean that there wouldn't be a real response to the D500, which would make some people quite unhappy. The 80D does sit in a fairly awkward position right now, with only some fairly small things (+AFMA) separating it from the 77D.
If the amalgamation happens, I'd expect to see something like:
  • At least partially mag alloy body (like the 6D)
  • At least 6D2 level weather sealing
  • A new AF system, maybe 2nd gen 65pt all-cross-type
  • A moderate or no bump to resolution from 24Mpix
  • Roughly 7D2 fps and buffer, or a little less (9fps?)
  • Tilty-flippy touchscreen (which means more 80D-like ergonomics)
  • GPS
  • 4K, latest DPAF, etc.
 
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Reactions: Daner and NetMage

Daner

EOS M50
Aug 15, 2017
25
15
Stockholm
Combine the flippy touch-screen and improved sensor of the 80D with the enhanced autofocus and focus control aspects of the 7D Mark II. Would be nice if they retained the dual card slots, even if they swapped out the CF for a second SD. Would also be nice if they retained 10fps, but as a product manager I would probably choose more capable 4k video over a high frame rate for stills. Either will likely require dual processors (Digic 8?). They could cut costs by providing 80D-level build quality, durability, and 7fps and many potential buyers would not complain.

Of course, I would rather see and use a true 7D Mark III that would go more head-to-head with the D500, but with the impending switch to the RF mount, Canon might feel that they need to go in a different direction.
 
Reactions: pj1974 and NetMage

NetMage

I'm New Here
Aug 22, 2018
17
32
When Canon downgraded after the 50D, I stopped buying xxD line and my next camera was a 7D, but the Mark II was more action focused and didn’t have as good a general purpose sensor as the 80D. If they combine them back, I would hope for a true successor to the 50D and original 7D with their handling features: joystick, full LCD, heavy duty body but with 80D or better DPAF low light capable gp sensor.