APS-C DSLR lineup to get a shake up? [CR1]

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
I also wonder why no native English speaking web site - or forum dweller - seems to be able to find the α character in their machines.
Oh, we all know how to type an alpha. We’re all just such Canon fanbois —even the Sony lovers and trolls here are closet Canon fanbois— that we use an ‘a’ instead just to thumb our noses at Sony. ;)
 
Aug 23, 2018
2
0
Horses for courses... My understanding is that in Japan DSLRs reign supreme. They are considered “macho”, “manly”... “size makes you a better photographer”. DSLRs continue to sell very well in Japan.

The Japanese are also the biggest consumers of cameras in the world. I remember reading a statistic on a forum (Yes, I know, this isn’t exactly a hard fact!) which suggested that the the Japanese buy about 70% of all DSLRs sold annually in the world.

In many worldwide markets DSLRs are “DEAD”! Only the middle-aged, like me, still buy them! Yes, I want a 7D3, but I have to resign myself to reality - Canon might not give me one.

Speaking as a resident of Australia I can say that DSLRs are definitely dead here! Only professionals still use them. Australia is predominantly Canon - more professionals use it as opposed to Nikon. Sales here are now all mirrorless, mirrorless, mirrorless...plus the Fujifilm GFX which sells much better than any traditional DSLR.

Worldwide, Canon has made the right decision in going “R”. As a dinosaur who loves DSLRs I am not coping very well :(
 

takesome1

EOS 6D MK II
Aug 23, 2013
1,486
119
98
Licking, Missouri
For wildlife photography, a main market for a 7D like camera, a mirror slapper still makes sense. Wildlife means that you sit in your camouflage tent and peer for hours at your motif, and nothing happens - and then, suddenly, comes the moment you've been waiting for (or never). With a ML camera you pay for every look through the EVF with a sip of electrical energy. So you have to carry much more replacement batteries with you than with an OVF camera. I know, wildlife photography is a bit crazy, but people like me love it, and IMO ML technology isn't yet mature enough for this application.
Total nonsense. I own both and if I take a crop body to the blind it will be the M5 not the 7D II. As you say you spend your time waiting, that translates in to very few shots and battery life is inconsequential. Case in point I set in the blind this last weekend, in four hours had shot a total of 8 frames. Personally I like the EVF and the tilt screen, it allows you to take pictures without your face against the camera which in turn helps reduces your profile by keeping more of you hid when the animal is close.

If you want to make a BIF argument then you have some legitimacy.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
Horses for courses... My understanding is that in Japan DSLRs reign supreme. They are considered “macho”, “manly”... “size makes you a better photographer”. DSLRs continue to sell very well in Japan.

The Japanese are also the biggest consumers of cameras in the world. I remember reading a statistic on a forum (Yes, I know, this isn’t exactly a hard fact!) which suggested that the the Japanese buy about 70% of all DSLRs sold annually in the world.

In many worldwide markets DSLRs are “DEAD”! Only the middle-aged, like me, still buy them! Yes, I want a 7D3, but I have to resign myself to reality - Canon might not give me one.
Ummmm....no. Just....no.

About 45% of the interchangeable lens cameras (ILCs) shipped to Japan are DSLRs, and 55% are MILCs – in most other geographies more DSLRs are sold than MILCs (globally, 62% of ILCs are DSLRs). So DSLRs certainly don’t ‘reign supreme’ in Japan, in fact the opposite is true. Also, about 7% of DSLRs go to Japan, not 70%.

Those are hard facts, based on the CIPA data for Jan-Nov 2018.

Speaking as a resident of Australia I can say that DSLRs are definitely dead here! Only professionals still use them. Australia is predominantly Canon - more professionals use it as opposed to Nikon. Sales here are now all mirrorless, mirrorless, mirrorless...plus the Fujifilm GFX which sells much better than any traditional DSLR.
Your statements above were blatantly false, and this is more BS. In every geography outside of Japan, DSLRs are more popular than MILCs, so your suggestion that sales in AUS are all mirrorless is clearly false. Globally, sales of Fuji ILCs aren’t sufficient to make more than a blip in market share, so your statement that the GFX outsells the ~60% of ILCs that are DSLRs is almost certainly another falsehood.

Worldwide, Canon has made the right decision in going “R”. As a dinosaur who loves DSLRs I am not coping very well :(
To be clear, Canon’s decision was to start selling a FF MILC line. Nothing else. THey certainly haven’t said they’re stopping DLSR development, in fact they’ve said (publicly) the exact opposite.

So to sum up for the TL;DR folks, your whole post is fallacious fantasy, except perhaps the very last bit about you having trouble coping.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,250
680
Canon don’t make money from people who stick with gear they have. They need to sell new items to customers. They are the Eos R cameras and accompanying EOS R lens.
No. They are the Canon authorized services, Canon system and Canon brand. People buy Canon's MFUs because Canon's cameras earned their trust. Or at least I do.

An EOS-R APS-C would be compatible to the new EOS-R lens natively.
Ther is no RF lens that people buying a mirrorless APS-C camera would buy. It's a dead market, and will remain dead for quite a while.
 

ykn123

EOS T7i
Oct 1, 2013
80
28
52
Germany
www.fotoflucke.de
With the ‘amazing MILC spec sheets’, don’t you wonder why consumers buy DSLRs? Yet they do...more frequently than they buy MILCs. So in all likelihood, the rumored Canon will not only ‘compete with’ the new Sony, it will outsell it.
The AI Eye AF (with tracking i Servoe Mode ) looks very interesting from their youtube videos, but i don't like the a6xxx sytöe bodies at all. And yes, the price sounds interesting as well. Still would like to see those features in a different body.
 

Hector1970

EOS 6D MK II
Mar 22, 2012
1,086
260
No. They are the Canon authorized services, Canon system and Canon brand. People buy Canon's MFUs because Canon's cameras earned their trust. Or at least I do.


Ther is no RF lens that people buying a mirrorless APS-C camera would buy. It's a dead market, and will remain dead for quite a while.
According to Canon Rumors
Photokina – Cologne, Germany // May 8, 2019 – May 11, 2019
This is the first spring Photokina show, as they are moving to a yearly cycle in the spring going forward. We’re not sure how companies are going to react to this new way of doing things, and if there will be any attempt to get products announced for the show in May.
We think this would be the latest that Canon announces a new EOS R body and the new “holy trinity” of RF lenses, the RF 16-35mm f/2.8L, RF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS and RF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS.
Very common lens APS-C camera owners upgrade to. All they are short is a 100-400
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
According to Canon Rumors
Photokina – Cologne, Germany // May 8, 2019 – May 11, 2019
This is the first spring Photokina show, as they are moving to a yearly cycle in the spring going forward. We’re not sure how companies are going to react to this new way of doing things, and if there will be any attempt to get products announced for the show in May.
We think this would be the latest that Canon announces a new EOS R body and the new “holy trinity” of RF lenses, the RF 16-35mm f/2.8L, RF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS and RF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS.
Very common lens APS-C camera owners upgrade to. All they are short is a 100-400
Agree with the sentiment. While most APS-C owners never buy lens(es) beyond what came with their camera (or buy only the nifty fifty because of the low cost), those that do are quite likely to buy L-series lenses, particularly at longer focal lengths. Still, I suspect the actual number of people who do so is rather small relative to the market as a whole. Canon has those data, and chose to not provide an upgrade path whereby owners of their M line could purchase lenses for their full frame mirrorless line to use on the M.
 

mpb001

EOS T7i
Sep 10, 2016
63
43
I am a 5DIV shooter, but I think that it would make sense to fold a potential 90D/7DIII into one advanced pro-grade crop sensor body. I know that Canon says that they will continue to make DSLRs, but my hunch is that over time (years), they will be phased out once they really get the mirrorless thing down. I have heard that a future 5DSR was shelved because Canon is considering making it a mirrorless body. As for the rest of the crop sensor line, I would not be surprised to see the Rebel line vanish or be folded into some amalgamation of an M series body. Just my thoughts.
 

AprilForever

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 31, 2010
764
8
aprilforever.com
If Canon nerfs the 7d mk III, I WILL SCREAM. I love the APS-C pro-ish camera, I want tgere to keep being an actually almost pro apsc camera, it would be a marketing move stupid beyond belief for Canon to ruin the lineup.
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,250
680
According to Canon Rumors
Photokina – Cologne, Germany // May 8, 2019 – May 11, 2019
This is the first spring Photokina show, as they are moving to a yearly cycle in the spring going forward. We’re not sure how companies are going to react to this new way of doing things, and if there will be any attempt to get products announced for the show in May.
We think this would be the latest that Canon announces a new EOS R body and the new “holy trinity” of RF lenses, the RF 16-35mm f/2.8L, RF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS and RF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS.
Very common lens APS-C camera owners upgrade to. All they are short is a 100-400
They aren't. They have EF100-400. My wife has, for example.

So, the question is:
If they do have these lenses in EF, why would they buy them in RF?
If they don't have these lenses in EF, why would they buy them in RF, but would not buy in EF?
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,932
1,242
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Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
If Canon nerfs the 7d mk III, I WILL SCREAM. I love the APS-C pro-ish camera, I want tgere to keep being an actually almost pro apsc camera, it would be a marketing move stupid beyond belief for Canon to ruin the lineup.
I don't think you will have to scream. Canon set the standard in this segment with the original 7D. Nikon tried to abandon this segment and then after a long absence they got back in it with the excellent D500. There is a demand for these 1DX/D5 comparable crop frame bodies. Both manufacturers wait a long time between models in order to build up demand, but they won't abandon the segment -- these are targeted to a very desirable audience with lots of disposable income.
 
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ShermN8r

I'm New Here
Nov 26, 2018
9
2
For a Canon Fanboy you seem to be very doom and gloom and that Canon will go the way of Encyclopedia Sellers.
Canon try not to be so they bring out new products which they hope their customers will buy.
It’s Canon’s strategy to push MILCs to maintain or increase sales. 2019 appears to be the year of MILC lens development. What they are short is cameras to support them. You may be happy with what you have as so not much further use to them as a customer. They are trying to sell to new customers (who have a range of options open) or existing customers who may want to replace or upgrade.
A 7DIII mirrorless would bring sports and wildlife shooters into their target range.

You may think mirrorless cameras are no better than mirrored cameras but that's in your shoes. Customers in general when they are buying something new are often looking for the latest innovation or future proofing their investment. In five years time do you expect Canon to be still bringing out new EF lens. I don't, I expect the only new lens they will be bringing out by then will be EF-R lens. Do I currently need a 70-200 2.8 lens? No I already have one.
If I had an EOS-R would I buy a 70-200 2.8 R lens. Well I might because while my old 70-200 is working away well its a little battered looking and I can't screw filters into it. I may buy a new lens for it.
If Canon brought out a new 7DIII would I buy it - no because my 7DII will do until the mirror fails.
If Canon brought out a new 7DR with silent shutter and a faster frame rate yes I might buy one.
This is what Canon needs to do to increase sales. They need to tempt new users and users like me who might upgrade. (They seem unlikely to see future sales from you as to seem to be happy with your lot which is very good for the environment and more of us should be like you).
If the 7D III becomes the next mirrorless offer from Canon, I'll stick with my Fujifilm X-T20 and possibly the X-T3 as well as the current Canon gear I already have...By that, I won't spend another dime on Canon!
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
910
434
When Canon downgraded after the 50D, I stopped buying xxD line and my next camera was a 7D, but the Mark II was more action focused and didn’t have as good a general purpose sensor as the 80D. If they combine them back, I would hope for a true successor to the 50D and original 7D with their handling features: joystick, full LCD, heavy duty body but with 80D or better DPAF low light capable gp sensor.
Well, except that above ISO 800, the 7D Mark II already has higher DR and S/N ratio than the 80D. The only place the 80D's sensor is qualitatively better than the 7D Mark II's sensor is at ISO 100 and ISO 200.

20190119ss3.png
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
910
434
I hope they don't sacrifice the 80D. That's the better of the two cameras for portrait, wedding, and landscape photographers so they'd be losing out on a huge industry. I could care less about shutter speed for photos, I want the best sensor, the most feature full apsc camera, fantastic video capabilities, and a compactish size. Also it better not be made into a eos-m camera, we need an eos-R camera or mirrorless body with ef-s lenses. There's no point in continuing to develop ef-M lenses it's a wasted resource and splits the userbase.
What few serious portrait, wedding, and landscape photographers that were left still shooting with APS-C moved to full frame with the introduction of the 6D/6DII at roughly the same price point as the 7D/7DII/80D.

I doubt Canon sees a large enough market left for APS-C cameras among portrait/wedding/landscape photographers to justify the space in the product line.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
910
434
I don't think that 80D users care about price, I chose the 80D over the 7D ii for the better sensor, more features, better videos options, & smaller body. So I could care less about the price I didn't want the 7D ii at all so a lesser price wouldn't have changed that. To me the 80D is the superior camera because of what I shoot.

The 80D and 7Dii are both Canon's top end APSC cameras, they have different purposes and therefor are priced according to the manufacturing process for Canon.

If the new combined camera can do everything I need from my 80D and have features the 7dii users need then sure but they better know that going into it.
If you don't care about price, why aren't you shooting with a 6D Mark II? It's cheaper than a 7D II and wipes the floor with the 80D for wedding, portrait, and landscape work.
 
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