Are the latest "updates" intended to keep EF on life support?

[YuengLinger]

Look at the minimal improvements to some recent lenses, such as the version III of the already wonderful ef 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. Also, rumors regarding the new big whites. Seriously, except for weight, which would be minimal, and some "new" coatings, how much better could new versions of the big whites be?

Could this be Canon's attempt to keep the EF L series lenses selling through the transition to whatever the new mount that will be used for FF mirrorless? Keep EF relevant long enough (years more, yes) for the FF mirrorless market to be approaching maturity?

 

[Don Haines]

NO!

A most emphatic NO!

It takes many years of sales of L lenses to recoup the development costs. If Canon was planning to abandon the EF mount, the would not be going through an update cycle, and particularly not an update cycle where the changes are more control and coatings oriented that optical formula....

Optically, these lenses are already as good as they are going to get. If they were planning to abandon the mount, they would be spending their effort on new lenses.

 

[YuengLinger]

NO!

A most emphatic NO!

It takes many years of sales of L lenses to recoup the development costs. If Canon was planning to abandon the EF mount, the would not be going through an update cycle, and particularly not an update cycle where the changes are more control and coatings oriented that optical formula....

Optically, these lenses are already as good as they are going to get. If they were planning to abandon the mount, they would be spending their effort on new lenses.

You might be right, but the very minimal improvements seen in the latest updates suggest that Canon is updating for show, to make a point--to make your point, in fact, that, despite the FF mirrorless chatter, EF is alive and well.

I think the updates being so minor strongly suggests that the FF mirrorless will not be native EF, though an adapter will be quickly available.

 

[BillB]

Look at the minimal improvements to some recent lenses, such as the version III of the already wonderful ef 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II. Also, rumors regarding the new big whites. Seriously, except for weight, which would be minimal, and some "new" coatings, how much better could new versions of the big whites be?

Could this be Canon's attempt to keep the EF L series lenses selling through the transition to whatever the new mount that will be used for FF mirrorless? Keep EF relevant long enough (years more, yes) for the FF mirrorless market to be approaching maturity?

Updates were likely for things like new coatings, faster AF communication with the camera and the iterative AF focussing that Canon has been using since 2012.

 

[Don Haines]

NO!

A most emphatic NO!

It takes many years of sales of L lenses to recoup the development costs. If Canon was planning to abandon the EF mount, the would not be going through an update cycle, and particularly not an update cycle where the changes are more control and coatings oriented that optical formula....

Optically, these lenses are already as good as they are going to get. If they were planning to abandon the mount, they would be spending their effort on new lenses.

You might be right, but the very minimal improvements seen in the latest updates suggest that Canon is updating for show, to make a point--to make your point, in fact, that, despite the FF mirrorless chatter, EF is alive and well.

I think the updates being so minor strongly suggests that the FF mirrorless will not be native EF, though an adapter will be quickly available.

Have you seen the MTF curves for the big whites? It’s just one big fat line at the top of the chart..... there really isn’t anywhere up left to go to. Just like the recent 70-200 upgrades, version 2 was essentially as optically good as you are going to get.... all that is left to improve is coatings, AF, and IS.... and that seems to be what the recent updates are all about....

 

[YuengLinger]

A lot of expense and prep time goes into updates. Which makes the very slight improvements puzzling in some respects. One way to explain them is to see Canon's desire to assure "L" customers that they can keep buying EF for the time being. For the time being.

Even as kids, we knew when we saw comic books add the "Still Only" to the price on the cover that a change was coming. These scant improvements, updates for the sake of reassurance says pretty clearly to me that we shouldn't get nervous when a new mount comes with the FF mirrorless.

I'm not saying EF will be discontinued immediately, but I think we are in the late autumn of its run as a mount standard. Updates for the sake of asserting relevancy are leaves turning brown. "Look around..."

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

If you look at the MTF curves for high end lenses, they tend to be very high, near the possible limits of manufacturing techniques. When the optics are so good, its only possible to get incremental optical improvements, usually at the corners and edges since the center is near perfect already.
So, we will see smaller optical improvements, and improvements with coatings, IS, and AF.

 

[YuengLinger]

If you look at the MTF curves for high end lenses, they tend to be very high, near the possible limits of manufacturing techniques. When the optics are so good, its only possible to get incremental optical improvements, usually at the corners and edges since the center is near perfect already.
So, we will see smaller optical improvements, and improvements with coatings, IS, and AF.

Then why new versions? To incorporate slight improvements? Or do you think more for marketing?

 

[unfocused]

If you look at the MTF curves for high end lenses, they tend to be very high, near the possible limits of manufacturing techniques. When the optics are so good, its only possible to get incremental optical improvements, usually at the corners and edges since the center is near perfect already.
So, we will see smaller optical improvements, and improvements with coatings, IS, and AF.

Then why new versions? To incorporate slight improvements? Or do you think more for marketing?

Could be manufacturing efficiencies. Incorporating new manufacturing processes that save time and money.

 

[timmy_650]

A lot of expense and prep time goes into updates. Which makes the very slight improvements puzzling in some respects. One way to explain them is to see Canon's desire to assure "L" customers that they can keep buying EF for the time being. For the time being.

I have seen these upgrades to be the other way, theses upgrades are to save money. I joke about the new white on the 70-200 but that can be a big cost saving. My last job we did our own paint similar to lenses. It is annoying and waste time to switch colors. I believe they have been going to more machine built lenses which is projected to save them money and make higher quality lenses.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

If you look at the MTF curves for high end lenses, they tend to be very high, near the possible limits of manufacturing techniques. When the optics are so good, its only possible to get incremental optical improvements, usually at the corners and edges since the center is near perfect already.
So, we will see smaller optical improvements, and improvements with coatings, IS, and AF.

Then why new versions? To incorporate slight improvements? Or do you think more for marketing?

Could be manufacturing efficiencies. Incorporating new manufacturing processes that save time and money.

They do not need a new model number to implement a new manufacturing process as long as there is no major design change involved.

They do update designs for a variety of reasons, and to be sure, Canon pinches every penny. Any new design will be saving money.

Reasons for a new model can include:
Better lens coatings(Some coatings cost more but are less expensive to apply making them cost less overall)
Improved ISLighter constructionRedesign of common failure pointsReplace obsolete electronic componentsImproved optical formulaRobotic assemblyNew Technology that justifies the cost(usually that means costs less).Expensive new Technology like the newer Diffractive Optics where buyers pay more for the weight reduction.

 

[YuengLinger]

Even those photographers who are exceedingly comfortable financially would feel some aggravation if they bought a Big White and found within a few years the lens mount is obsolete for new cameras (but can be kept alive with an adapter, granted). So, no surprise, there is defensive whistling in the dark. ;D

 

[Mikehit]

No

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

 

[YuengLinger]

No

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

Because the great minds of journalism have done so much to maintain their profession's integrity and credibility.


So you are saying a rumors forum is no place to ask questions or speculate?

 

[Mikehit]

No

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

Because the great minds of journalism have done so much to maintain their profession's integrity and credibility.


So you are saying a rumors forum is no place to ask questions or speculate?

I said nothing of the sort - merely highlighting a truism about headlines with a question mark in them.

 

[YuengLinger]

You accept bromides as facts that apply to all situations? That can lead to many difficulties.

And you have dodged the question, but were made anxious enough about its implications to reply with nonsense.

If the new FF mirrorless mount is EF, why doesn't Canon simply say so and reassure customers? Are they using a little suspense as buzz? I'd say they are working on various strategies to ease the transition for their sake and ours.

If a working professional needs a new lens, he/she will buy what is needed. We don't get many such types here on CR, as they are generally too busy to be obsessing over gear. Hobbyists might have some concerns about the end of the EF mount, at least enough to wait for Canon to give some guidance regarding the future of FF mounts--and dSLR's.


And eventually the internal combustion engine will be obsolete. But, if you need a car now, alternatives are limited.

 

[Mikehit]

You accept bromides as facts that apply to all situations? That can lead to many difficulties.

And you have dodged the question, but were made anxious enough about its implications to reply with nonsense.

Random word generator....

If the new FF mirrorless mount is EF, why doesn't Canon simply say so and reassure customers? Are they using a little suspense as buzz? I'd say they are working on various strategies to ease the transition for their sake and ours.

This 'buzz' has only happened in the last 2-3 weeks yet you seem to suggest it has reached a point where people are really worried and need to be reassured? I know that some say people now need instant gratification but that is going some.

If a working professional needs a new lens, he/she will buy what is needed.

Probably how Canon sees it. Which is why they have not said anything.

 

[YuengLinger]

You accept bromides as facts that apply to all situations? That can lead to many difficulties.

And you have dodged the question, but were made anxious enough about its implications to reply with nonsense.

Random word generator....

If the new FF mirrorless mount is EF, why doesn't Canon simply say so and reassure customers? Are they using a little suspense as buzz? I'd say they are working on various strategies to ease the transition for their sake and ours.

This 'buzz' has only happened in the last 2-3 weeks yet you seem to suggest it has reached a point where people are really worried and need to be reassured? I know that some say people now need instant gratification but that is going some.

If a working professional needs a new lens, he/she will buy what is needed.

Probably how Canon sees it. Which is why they have not said anything.

Perhaps anxiety has clouded your usual thought processes--and memory. Two to three weeks of buzz? Wow, you've taken a break from being online:

http://www.canonrumors.com/more-than-one-active-full-frame-mirrorless-project-at-canon-cr1/

 

[Mikehit]

I know reports have been back a few months, but only recently have they reached this intensity. The fact that link is 9 months old does not seem to have hurt Canon sales, which brings us back to the question of whether there is any concern that Canon needs to address by announcing its plans. It seems not.

 

[YuengLinger]

Actually, Canon might be more worried about "concerns" when the new FF mirrorless is revealed to have a new mount.

I'm simply explaining why I believe strongly that something big is afoot. Canon has nothing to lose by telling us ahead of time EF will continue in the mirrorless lines. But if they announce otherwise, there may be a significant hit to purchases until the missing spaces on their new map are filled in.

Canon isn't doomed or any of that nonsense. But we might very well be looking at a world with EF on the way out, starting as soon as this fall.