Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom

HTML:
<p>Fstoppers’s Wasim Ahmad posted an <a href="https://fstoppers.com/originals/canons-4000d-and-race-bottom-photographers-hearts-and-minds-226103">article</a> today on the 4000D, Canon’s new entry level of entry level cameras.</p>
<p>Needless to say, he’s pretty put out over Canon coming out with a brand new camera for under $400 dollars.</p>
<blockquote><p>Products like these show a fundamental misunderstanding of the camera market today. Instead of lowering the bar, why not raise it with higher quality hardware and software that can beat the smartphone and convince consumers that real cameras are worth it? It’s time to make an aspirational camera.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have problems personally with this article.   For starters, not every camera should be a inspirational camera in the industry and secondly, your inspiration should come from photography and not the camera itself.   Giving a youngster a unbreakable piece of plastic camera that they can toss around that doesn’t cost alot of money – isn’t a bad idea to fuel inspiration.  The article also tends to ignore the fact that not everyone can afford a Google Pixel 2 or a Apple XL with a high end computational camera, and a camera that costs around 1/3 of a top end phone fits in some people’s budget far better.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, I’d never purchase a 4000D for myself, but I may consider it for my grandson when he gets a little older.  This or a M100 styled camera, he may have alot of fun with.  Inspiring his creativity I think is very important.</p>
<p>Thoughts? I’d love to hear them in the forum.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
 

LDS

Sep 14, 2012
1,763
293
These are evidently not cameras for for the GAS addicted ones. Not everybody starts photography with a $1000+ cameras and lenses. Used ones may not be easily available everywhere, may look too complex, and there's always the risk of a dud.

I can see a market in:

1) Developing countries.
2) True beginners looking for a cheap cameras to start with.
3) Cash constrained people who still wants a reflex, for whatever reason.

Of course no one will probably ever attach a 100-400 to them (if not for fun), and anyway, with heavy lenses I'm careful about how I handle them even with sturdier cameras. Canon talked about different kits - maybe the 18-55 won't be the only lens sold with. Some of the design choices of course would be unbelievable at a different price point, but they fit the strategy.

The blog also doesn't understand that in the phone market models equivalent to these cameras do exist and sell (although their margins are very thin) - if he believes everybody buys an iPhone X, Google Pixel or Samsung S9 he doesn't understand that market too. The cheap Android phones have not the components quality and processing power to deliver the same images the high-end ones do.

Google even launched the "GO edition" of Android 8 to allow low-end phones to run a slimmed down version - because it too knows the bottom line is important to bring people into its platform, and I think Canon is trying to achieve something alike. Maybe we'll see a M4000 also.

If he also believes software processing can do everything, he will find software is able to do only what it is already programmed for - even with AI which just undergoes more sophisticated training. And when it is pushed out of its envelop it could fail big. Even Google acknowledges its "Portrait mode" is far from being perfect, and fails with subjects it don't recognize, being trained on faces only. And anyway, you'll be bound to what the software thinks is right, not what to achieve. That is not an issue for the snapshot crowd taking the same photos over and over - those who wish to learn and start to control their images could find this camera useful, of course if they take it out from the Auto/Scene modes.
 
Upvote 0
Mar 25, 2011
16,848
1,835
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment. Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers. Those who do well with it may move to high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one. In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

As someone noted, photography classes which require a point and shoot costing $400 or more may move to cameras like this, or at least put them on a suggested list.
 
Upvote 0

Talys

Canon R5
CR Pro
Feb 16, 2017
2,127
451
Vancouver, BC
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment. Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers. Those who do well with it may move to high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one. In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

Well said :)
 
Upvote 0
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment. Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers. Those who do well with it may move to high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one. In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

As someone noted, photography classes which require a point and shoot costing $400 or more may move to cameras like this, or at least put them on a suggested list.
And also in some countries photographic equipment is very expensive in relative terms with all those taxes. Cameras like this have better chance of attracting main street buyers with their price points. It is like all those cheap Chinese phones selling like crazy. Does it have same 80d sensor with dpaf?
 
Upvote 0
No doubt that this camera will resonate with some, but I would argue, those coming into the fold of ILC's would make their way regardless of this model. I have not heard a compelling argument as to why this will bring in the next generation of photographers. eBay, hand-me-down, refurb, good camera phones, have been around much longer then this new camera. The Next generation is currently being given access/experience to Smartphone cameras that can produce wonderful results, as well as being able to experiment with apps and settings. Dials and knobs don't necessarily interest the next gen. Nor are most newcomers interested/patient in setting the camera up for the best shot or taking the time to gain experience. The next generations that come to the ILC playground will have their expectations dashed with this no-frills video gimped model.
IF canon was really interested in the next generations, more then they are in maintaining the status quo, they would produce an intuitive new design with touch menus that guide/teach you how to produce better compositions. :p
 
Upvote 0

slclick

EOS 3
Dec 17, 2013
4,634
3,040
lwan said:
Your point about a cheap DSLR for a kid, I get it perfectly. Makes sense.
The 4000D wouldn't be a problem if the high end bodies were stellar, but they aren't.
There is a market between the 1D and the 3 of 4 digits lines that is simply not happy at all with what they get (compared to what the competition has to offer right now).

No one said it's a problem...because it's not. Making correlations between top of the line and bottom? You've really got nothing there except an urge to gripe it seems. Who btw isn't happy? Online reviewers? Next.
 
Upvote 0

Hector1970

CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,554
1,162
I've no problem with Canon producing a 4000D.
It's a good camera for beginners. It seems to be like a 500D from 8 years ago.
I'm not sure if its a great thing for Canon though.
It depends on whether the profit margin is.
I'd expect they'll sell quite a few but it will cannibalise the existing lower end cameras.
It would be fine as an emergency backup camera.
Canon probably hope it will sell more lens.
It is though in danger of being a race to the bottom.
Alot of people who buy this camera may never buy anything other than the kit lens.
 
Upvote 0
I had many cameras in the last years before I bought the 1200D at the end of 2015. The first lenses were the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens and the 60mm f/2.8 macro lens. Both the camera and the kitlens are great to start with. If I had more money at the time I'd probably bought a 24-70mm lens but I could not afford it. Those who will buy the 4000D will not buy the Canon 100-400mm as their first lens and those who can buy the 100-400mm as the first lens will not buy the 4000D as the first camera so there no problem with the plastic mount.
Smartphone cameras are better now than few years ago but a 4000D (or any APS-C) has a sensor that is 21 times larger so no smartphone can come close to them. Canon should probably put newer sensors and processors in some of the entry level cameras but these would cost more. But the quality of the photos you take does not depend solely on the camera but also on how you use it.
 
Upvote 0