Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom

[C-A430]

Don't bother searching back through our news archive for information on this camera or looking for a preview page; the EOS 4000D is not scheduled to hit North American shores.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/03/02/the-new-low-cost-canon-camera-you-might-have-missed-has-missed-the-mark

Has somebody mentioned this before? I only read the f-stoppers article and this forum tread. Have I missed this information or has everyone on this forum failed to notice?

It is probably targeted at China & India, just like my cellphone which was designed to be Indias most popular phone but got sent to developing countries of Europe too, although internet says that my specific sub-model is available in India and Middle East only.

 

[Talys]

Sony releases a relatively cheap full-frame mirrorless monster ... the A7 III ... for $2000.
at the same time....
Canon releases an utterly boring rerun among other reruns ...

... I can understand a reactionary article to vent off frustration at Canons absence at the frontier of innovation in bodies

And far more people will buy the Canon, so what is your point?

Such a simple point and you still don't get it. I recommend Remedial Reading 101 for you.

And $2000 is more than the vast bulk of consumers will pay for a camera.....

Exactly. I began photography as a hobby in the 1980's, and the first and only $2,000 camera body I have ever purchased is a Canon 6DII.

That isn't to say that I haven't spent a lot of money on photography; it's just not on camera bodies -- I've spent a lot more on lighting and lenses (and once upon a time, darkroom and supplies) than I have on camera bodies, and I don't regret my spending priorities at all.

 

[Talys]

I can understand someone being so committed to a camera brand that they cannot abide by any criticism of any of their products or actions, and feel compelled to attack even simple comments that might explain why others aren't so in love.

Oh, wait, no I can't ... that would be asinine

Anyone who is an actual photographer -- and by that, I mean, someone who enjoys the hobby of or earns a living from taking photographs -- should be delighted at the amazing cameras that are available today from nearly every brand.

Each person may have a preference of one brand or another, but the tools are amazing, and in truth, any modern ILC is capable of taking stunning, knock-your-socks-off photographs. Every person may have a preference of one model or another, and sure, more expensive models have additional capabilities that make our lives easier, or photography more efficient, or the tools more durable, and more expensive lenses offer a little crisper images, or more reach.

But: if you can't take an amazing photographs with a $500 ILC that's sold today, the problem isn't with the gear.

There's a big difference with saying, "I love model X and prefer it to model Y because of these reasons", to saying "People who buy model Y are idiots." Just like, there's a big difference between, "I love Feature A", to saying, "People who don't see how feature A is amazing are stupid."

So if you love a brand, say it. If you don't love a model or design choice, say that. Just be respectful that other people may have totally different priorities than you, and at the end of the day, the best camera for any photographer is the one that they are most comfortable with.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Don't bother searching back through our news archive for information on this camera or looking for a preview page; the EOS 4000D is not scheduled to hit North American shores.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/03/02/the-new-low-cost-canon-camera-you-might-have-missed-has-missed-the-mark

Has somebody mentioned this before? I only read the f-stoppers article and this forum tread. Have I missed this information or has everyone on this forum failed to notice?

It is probably targeted at China & India, just like my cellphone which was designed to be Indias most popular phone but got sent to developing countries of Europe too, although internet says that my specific sub-model is available in India and Middle East only.

Yes, the fact that 4000D was not being sold on the American market was ignored so far.
But my surprise is: So far, Rebel T7 also does not appear on the BH nor Adorama website.

 

[dak723]

Don't bother searching back through our news archive for information on this camera or looking for a preview page; the EOS 4000D is not scheduled to hit North American shores.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/03/02/the-new-low-cost-canon-camera-you-might-have-missed-has-missed-the-mark

Has somebody mentioned this before? I only read the f-stoppers article and this forum tread. Have I missed this information or has everyone on this forum failed to notice?

It is probably targeted at China & India, just like my cellphone which was designed to be Indias most popular phone but got sent to developing countries of Europe too, although internet says that my specific sub-model is available in India and Middle East only.

Yes, the fact that 4000D was not being sold on the American market was ignored so far.
But my surprise is: So far, Rebel T7 also does not appear on the BH nor Adorama website.

According to our very own Canon Rumors. the camera will come to North America and be called the T100.

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-rebel-4000d-the-cheapest-dslr-ever-will-come-to-north-america-as-the-eos-rebel-t100/

 

[aceflibble]

Aspirational =/= inspirational.

CR writer straight-up completely misread and misunderstood what was being said.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Don't bother searching back through our news archive for information on this camera or looking for a preview page; the EOS 4000D is not scheduled to hit North American shores.

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/03/02/the-new-low-cost-canon-camera-you-might-have-missed-has-missed-the-mark

Has somebody mentioned this before? I only read the f-stoppers article and this forum tread. Have I missed this information or has everyone on this forum failed to notice?

It is probably targeted at China & India, just like my cellphone which was designed to be Indias most popular phone but got sent to developing countries of Europe too, although internet says that my specific sub-model is available in India and Middle East only.

Yes, the fact that 4000D was not being sold on the American market was ignored so far.
But my surprise is: So far, Rebel T7 also does not appear on the BH nor Adorama website.

According to our very own Canon Rumors. the camera will come to North America and be called the T100.

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-the-eos-rebel-4000d-the-cheapest-dslr-ever-will-come-to-north-america-as-the-eos-rebel-t100/

On the site Adorama and BH there are still no Canon T100 as well.

 

[RickWagoner]

I love how camera bloggers and forum members have no idea what they're talking about yet they demonize a company who knows exactly what they're doing.

Canon is the number one selling brand of SLR cameras in the world and all people do is complain about them ?

What you're are missing are these fine points. First the majority of the buying SLR market is $1200 body or less, so much so that Canon still outsells the old 70D new five times as much as the 5d3/5d4 put together, Think about that for a second. Canon sells more entry level bodies in one day than any 7d2 and higher body together sells in a month. Another thing is how much profit the company makes selling a entry level body vs the higher end stuff, you would think they make more profit on the higher end stuff being a higher price tag but you are incredibly wrong. The machining needed for the higher end bodies cost more to produce and require more refreshes for a lower volume than the entry level bodies machining that is much cheaper to make and lasts a lot longer. Why sell five 5d4's when you can sell fifty T6 bodies in the same time and make more profit?

Seriously if 1% of the first time entry level buyers return to buy one more Canon body in the future the company can last easily for another 15 years, that is how large the entry level market is.

Before you all say "what about the pro market? What about buyers like me?". Well you're nothing to the camera market, remember money talks. Also guess where all that money comes from to develop your camera body, from the entry level profits. If they cared so much about you they would not be in business for long or would be the size of the tiny SLR division of Nikon. Sony is only doing what it is with cameras to keep you in the brand, they sell you a cheap feature packed camera today and later you buy a tv and some headphones from them and they make their money that way.

Also stop talking about 4k. No one cares about an SLR shooting 4k! Most people don't have the computer to work with 4k and these same people have devices already in their pocket that can do the job. When i say no one i mean the majority of the Canon SLR buying market...the people buying a cheap and entry level "pro SLR" to take pictures....this is where the money is!

 

[Richard CR]

Aspirational =/= inspirational.

CR writer straight-up completely misread and misunderstood what was being said.

not really.

to inspired by a camera, or for a camera to be something you aspire to are quite similar.

the intent of his article and wording until the end was really he wasn't inspired by the camera, and therefore it was bad, and shows a failure of the manufacturer. That's the way I read the article.


The fact that he chose to use the term aspirational during his conclusions, IMO, was ludicrous, but i didn't want to really call him a complete idiot.

A $400 camera regardless of features may be something that someone aspires to simply because it's the only camera they can afford new. Regardless of what you can buy used, hand-me-downs, there's always that special feeling when you get something new - especially in a country that is more disadvantaged than North America.

Like i said earlier I was curious on how people would react to the article, if they could see the place for such a camera (like I could for instance) and if the general CR community was different than what I saw in the comments section over in f-stoppers.

Which thankfully it is

 

[Talys]

A $400 camera regardless of features may be something that someone aspires to simply because it's the only damned camera they can afford new. Regardless of what you can buy used, hand-me-downs, there's always that special feeling when you get something new - especially in a country that is more disadvantaged than north america.

Couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Richard CR]

A $400 camera regardless of features may be something that someone aspires to simply because it's the only damned camera they can afford new. Regardless of what you can buy used, hand-me-downs, there's always that special feeling when you get something new - especially in a country that is more disadvantaged than north america.

Couldn't have said it better myself

why thank you

also to add in some areas of the world they have very large import taxation rules in place so even a sub-$400 camera becomes considerably more expensive, and higher valued units are basically out of reach to the general public and even really what is a slim middle class.

We are blessed in Europe as well as North America that import taxation is minimal.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

A $400 camera regardless of features may be something that someone aspires to simply because it's the only damned camera they can afford new. Regardless of what you can buy used, hand-me-downs, there's always that special feeling when you get something new - especially in a country that is more disadvantaged than north america.

Couldn't have said it better myself

why thank you

also to add in some areas of the world they have very large import taxation rules in place so even a sub-$400 camera becomes considerably more expensive, and higher valued units are basically out of reach to the general public and even really what is a slim middle class.

We are blessed in Europe as well as North America that import taxation is minimal.

At the moment, the official Canon store in Brazil is selling the following cameras with a price converted to US dollars:

70D kit 18-135mm.......US$3076
T6S body only.............US$1999
T6i kit 18-55mm......... US$1200
T5i kit 18-55mm..........US$923
T5 kit 18-55mm...........US$769

 

[okaro]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Canon could build an EOS body out of cardboard and it would still be better than every smartphone camera or P&S ever made.

Point and Shoot cameras never should have existed at all.

Anything that is compatible with the EOS ecosystem is better than pretty much everything that isn’t.
(I’d say the same for Nikon, but they just get a slightly softer recommendation.)

Compact cameras are handy if you want a camera with long zoom in small size and at a cheap price. Also new compact cameras with one inch sensor are in most cases a match to EOS cameras in the image quality.

 

[Ozarker]

Sony releases a relatively cheap full-frame mirrorless monster ... the A7 III ... for $2000.
at the same time....
Canon releases an utterly boring rerun among other reruns ...

... I can understand a reactionary article to vent off frustration at Canons absence at the frontier of innovation in bodies

And far more people will buy the Canon, so what is your point?

Such a simple point and you still don't get it. I recommend Remedial Reading 101 for you.

And $2000 is more than the vast bulk of consumers will pay for a camera.....

It isn't a 6D in a 4000D wrapper. The sort of indignance we see all the time.

 

[Refurb7]

The article is just too damned STOOPID to deserve much commentary. I'll just say that it ignores a whole bunch of high end Canon products. Canon wisely makes a broad range of products, something for every budget.

 

[rifleman]

Canon are not replacing the 1Dx with the 4000 - so what's the issue?

I'm sure that they have a market for those that want to replace the Nazi salute of the cellphone with a proper camera - and maybe have the sense to start with an SLR ( or M50?)

Maybe Canon will, one day, catch up with Sony et al, with a full frame mirrorless or even some better firmware for the M5, you know, folders, GPS etc. ML lenses even.

I can wait - and play with my 1Dx for now.

 

[9VIII]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Canon could build an EOS body out of cardboard and it would still be better than every smartphone camera or P&S ever made.

Point and Shoot cameras never should have existed at all.

Anything that is compatible with the EOS ecosystem is better than pretty much everything that isn’t.
(I’d say the same for Nikon, but they just get a slightly softer recommendation.)

I wonder how many us started digital photography with a P/S camera?

Also, there are a lot of people in my camera club who shoot with superzooms, and some who shoot with iPhones.

My camera kit still includes a P/S camera. The Olympus TG-4.... which survives repeated immersion in water FAR better than any Canon DSLR...

As the fantastic EF-S 55-250STM now shows, you can get superzoom performance on an entry level SLR.
That lens didn’t always exist, but now that it does there’s no point in making P&S Superzooms anymore.

Ok, underwater may be the last refuge for non-ILC bodies.
But it’s still a highly specialized application, in that case you’re going out of your way to buy a waterproof camera, like drone photography or rear view cameras on your car, this isn’t what’s being advertised as the ideal first camera for someone wanting to do general photography.

What about superzooms? The Nikon P900 is very popular in my camera club, and zooms from (equivalent) 24 to 2000 mm. That’s a long way past 250mm......

Anything the Superzoom can do can be done better in an ILC format, but those aren't cheap or small cameras to begin with so really you don't gain anything by getting the superzoom, you only lose the standard EOS feature set.

 

[scyrene]

I almost forgot, I guess I missed Canon's massive display at the trade show, showcasing the 4000D. Which trade show was that, again?

You can go ahead and file that post under irrelevant tangents. Or verbal diarrhea.

The Canon cult is indistinguishable from the Apple cult.

Etienne, your original point was a meaningless comparison between two very different things. Now you're responding to all criticism with vacuous dismissal of everyone with dissenting opinions. Why so defensive all of a sudden? Don't you have anything substantive to say?

Let's say next time around Sony releases an entry-level camera at around the same time Canon comes out with a flagship model. The two would still have no relevance to each other. It's not about brands, it's about apples and oranges. But I think (hope) you know that.

 

[old-pr-pix]

As the fantastic EF-S 55-250STM now shows, you can get superzoom performance on an entry level SLR.
That lens didn’t always exist, but now that it does there’s no point in making P&S Superzooms anymore.
...

What about superzooms? The Nikon P900 is very popular in my camera club, and zooms from (equivalent) 24 to 2000 mm. That’s a long way past 250mm......

Anything the Superzoom can do can be done better in an ILC format, but those aren't cheap or small cameras to begin with so really you don't gain anything by getting the superzoom, you only lose the standard EOS feature set.

The P900 is about $500 - 16 MP and f6.5 @2000mm. To get its 2000 mm equivalent in EF/EF-S mount would take a 600mm plus 2X on APS-C body for a cost of ~$12,000! (OK, w/3rd party 150-600 zoom ~$2000, but @ f13.) Or are you saying just use the 55-250 on an 80D (bundled ~$1250 @ Costco) and crop in like 500% ? That leaves how many MP? Maybe one? Seems to me the Superzoom might in fact be a good choice for very casual long tele use!?

 

[Don Haines]

As the fantastic EF-S 55-250STM now shows, you can get superzoom performance on an entry level SLR.
That lens didn’t always exist, but now that it does there’s no point in making P&S Superzooms anymore.
...

What about superzooms? The Nikon P900 is very popular in my camera club, and zooms from (equivalent) 24 to 2000 mm. That’s a long way past 250mm......

Anything the Superzoom can do can be done better in an ILC format, but those aren't cheap or small cameras to begin with so really you don't gain anything by getting the superzoom, you only lose the standard EOS feature set.

The P900 is about $500 - 16 MP and f6.5 @2000mm. To get its 2000 mm equivalent in EF/EF-S mount would take a 600mm plus 2X on APS-C body for a cost of ~$12,000! (OK, w/3rd party 150-600 zoom ~$2000, but @ f13.) Or are you saying just use the 55-250 on an 80D (bundled ~$1250 @ Costco) and crop in like 500% ? That leaves how many MP? Maybe one? Seems to me the Superzoom might in fact be a good choice for very casual long tele use!?

Pls, the superzooms is a lot smaller and lighter..... this is a huge (pun intended) factor when on a hike.... plus the convenience of no lens changes.....