Best Possible IQ

[sanj]

Friends.
I am super excited. I have been asked to take a picture for a large coffee table book and the photo will be a two page spread. Within the next three months I am going to be shooting a landscape photo of an old religious city. I am supposed to take a photo in early morning light on which the client will do a LOT of post work - add and remove elements, color correct etc.

My brief is to shoot this on the best possible format.

My questions:
1. What should I use? Obviously it should be large format but since I do not know anything about large formats, 'backs' etc., where do I start figuring out how to proceed?
2. Which lens would translate into a 25/35mm of our full frame Canon? I would shoot at f11 so do not need a lens which is great wide open.
3. Would my heavy Gitzo and Arca be stable enough for this or I would need something else?

Above all I need to know which is the best large format system available today to shoot at ISO 100/125.

I want to stay digital and not shoot on film.

All help sincerely appreciated.

 

[Sporgon]

I'd shoot it on FF as a stitch. Shoot in portrait, take probably five frames across to give suitable format for a double page spread. You will have to use a longer focal length lens to achieve the appropriate field of view up and down. For example a 40mm used in portrait gives same field of view up and down as a 24mm in landscape. Use PTgui professional to stitch. You will end up with a format that is larger than many digital medium format cameras. Note; the final image will be a HUGE file in 16 bit TIFF.

For a reasonably static subject such as a landscape there is no way I would bother to get bogged down with a larger format system nowadays.

 

[sanj]

Thank you Sporgon, but for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

And I think I need medium format and not large format. Am I right about this?

 

[Eldar]

A friend of mine have the latest 80MP Phase One. He made some shots in the Pyrenees this fall, which I saw in high quality 1mx1.5m prints. Incredible dynamics, resolution, color, the lot.

 

[Sporgon]

Thank you Sporgon, but for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

And I think I need medium format and not large format. Am I right about this?

Once you have completed the stitch you are left with a single image file like any other, just much larger, effectively shot on a larger format. It can then be edited in the same fashion as any other file; there's no difference.

If you really wanted digital large format we could help you out with that. We are the UK agents for one of the best known large format cameras. But there's no way you need that for what you've been asked to do, so that leaves you with medium format, but again, personally I don't think you need it.

 

[dryanparker]

A friend of mine have the latest 80MP Phase One. He made some shots in the Pyrenees this fall, which I saw in high quality 1mx1.5m prints. Incredible dynamics, resolution, color, the lot.

I'll second this. Phase One and Leaf make huge sensor medium format digital backs. I'd say it's probably worth renting that kind of system for the shoot if your budget allows. Truth is, for a magazine spread you don't need 80MP, or anywhere near it, but it will yield the most headroom for post work.

 

[neuroanatomist]

...for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

Why? Are there going to be moving elements in the scene?

 

[sanj]

Thank you Sporgon, but for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

And I think I need medium format and not large format. Am I right about this?

Once you have completed the stitch you are left with a single image file like any other, just much larger, effectively shot on a larger format. It can then be edited in the same fashion as any other file; there's no difference.

If you really wanted digital large format we could help you out with that. We are the UK agents for one of the best known large format cameras. But there's no way you need that for what you've been asked to do, so that leaves you with medium format, but again, personally I don't think you need it.

Dearest Sporgon. Stitching will not work as I need to hold the camera steady and then take multiple photos of the same shot every two minutes so the client can delete people that are moving around in the frame and create an empty shot of the place.

And I will not buy, I will rent it all for 4 odd days. Try the shot every day and pick the one with best morning light.

 

[sanj]

...for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

Why? Are there going to be moving elements in the scene?

There you go Neuro. God you are smart!

 

[sanj]

A friend of mine have the latest 80MP Phase One. He made some shots in the Pyrenees this fall, which I saw in high quality 1mx1.5m prints. Incredible dynamics, resolution, color, the lot.

I'll second this. Phase One and Leaf make huge sensor medium format digital backs. I'd say it's probably worth renting that kind of system for the shoot if your budget allows. Truth is, for a magazine spread you don't need 80MP, or anywhere near it, but it will yield the most headroom for post work.

Thank you both. So I will look up Phase on and Leaf. Are these complete cameras? I do not know what 'back means'. And yes headroom in post work is what is required for this job. I am allowed to rent whatever I want, so why not the best? The rental will be perhaps not so much compared to other expenses: Flights, hotels, etc.
Thx.

 

[neuroanatomist]

...for the photo I need to take stitch is not possible for the type of work the client requires.

Why? Are there going to be moving elements in the scene?

There you go Neuro. God you are smart!

Perhaps I should have said, moving elements that you want to keep. If the point is to clone them out anyway, it doesn't really matter if they're in one part of a stitched panorama, but not another part, or if they've moved from one exposure to the next - they're not going to be in the final image anyway.

If people are actually moving, not standing still, you could consider a 10 stop ND filter as a way to effectively remove them. Depending on how populated the area is, stitching may actually make removing the people easier. Say you take a portrait oriented four shot 'FF' pano (giving you a final aspect ratio of 8:3, meaning you would still need to crop the sides off a bit). With your pano head and it's markings, you have predetermined the exact positions for each frame. You shoot several rounds of 1-2-3-4 in succession, then when you go to stitch them together, you might pick frames 1 and 3 from the first series, frame 2 from the second series, and frame 4 from the third series, selecting the ones with the fewest people or no people in each case.

As for holding the camera still, that's what your tripod is for, right?

 

[dryanparker]

A friend of mine have the latest 80MP Phase One. He made some shots in the Pyrenees this fall, which I saw in high quality 1mx1.5m prints. Incredible dynamics, resolution, color, the lot.

I'll second this. Phase One and Leaf make huge sensor medium format digital backs. I'd say it's probably worth renting that kind of system for the shoot if your budget allows. Truth is, for a magazine spread you don't need 80MP, or anywhere near it, but it will yield the most headroom for post work.

Thank you both. So I will look up Phase on and Leaf. Are these complete cameras? I do not know what 'back means'. And yes headroom in post work is what is required for this job. I am allowed to rent whatever I want, so why not the best? The rental will be perhaps not so much compared to other expenses: Flights, hotels, etc.
Thx.

Medium Format cameras tend to be modular in design. That is, the body, lens, viewfinder and sensor (called the "back") are separate elements that are assembled to create the camera. The benefit is that you can use the same camera body (just a box with some electronics, really) with any compatible back. The newest generation of backs go up to 80MP. Both Phase One and Mamiya Leaf make those. Hasselblad is another leading Medium Format player. Leica makes a "Medium Format" DSLR-style camera, the S system. It's a fully-contained system like your interchangeable lens DSLR with a 37.5MP sensor. My understanding is the Leica S is exceptional.

The interchangeable digital backs are very expensive. The 80MP varieties are in the $40k range. As such, the modular system allows you to upgrade the backs without upgrading your entire camera.

Even though it's (arguably) the highest quality, I might warn against blindly renting a system like this for an important shoot if you haven't worked with different formats before. They aren't exactly "plug-and-play", and like anything else, it will most certainly take some practice with the system to get the most from it.

My thinking is the Leica S would offer a more familiar and streamlined workflow. Either way, sounds like a great assignment! Best of luck!!

 

[unfocused]

Just how big is this "coffee table book?"

I can't imagine it will be larger than the largest size print you would make from a 1D or 5D. The reproduction is going to be in CMYK at about 300 DPI, right? Which means it can't possibly be more demanding than an actual print. So long as you shoot at ISO 400 or less, what advantage would larger format offer?

What am I missing here?

 

[dryanparker]

Just how big is this "coffee table book?"

I can't imagine it will be larger than the largest size print you would make from a 1D or 5D. The reproduction is going to be in CMYK at about 300 DPI, right? Which means it can't possibly be more demanding than an actual print. So long as you shoot at ISO 400 or less, what advantage would larger format offer?

What am I missing here?

You're not missing a thing. I'm a Medium Format devotee, but it's generally unnecessary without a specific need for what it offers. Some will tout the "look"...but only a trained eye can spot that. I got into it because I wanted resolving power for very large prints.

I have to say, if I was the one hired for this shot, I'd be using a 5D3 and a 24mm TSE. If I wanted more resolution, I'd rent the Schneider-Kreuznach 50mm PC lens and do some stitching.

 

[chauncey]

Let me see if I've got this right...It's a coffee table book and the client is doing all the PP work.
Stitch the tripod mounted images using what you have, insuring spot-on camera settings, and move on.
You don't need to make a huge production out of it...when he finishes, you probably won't even recognize it anyway.

 

[alexanderferdinand]

Maybe a little conversation with the people who make this book would be helpful.
The PP- human sure knows what he likes to have and what not?
Wishes and no-gos.
Sounds all a bit diffuse to me.
Sorry, just my first thought I read it.

 

[Halfrack]

What is the budget for this shoot? For the best possible image you can:

-Rent a medium format system for a week, learn enough to shoot the image, and bracket for DR
-Rent a Canon 5d mk3 and use a TS-E lens and bracket/stitch the snot out of it
-Rent a D800e/A7r and lens or adapter to use existing Canon glass

OP would help us a lot by letting us know what gear you already have. How wide or long the shot will be (aka you're going to use every bit of the frame, so are you shooting at 24mm, 85mm or a 200mm?)

Have you already shot the image the client is looking to publish? If not, do a survey of the shot with the gear you have, and see if and where you have an issue. Depending on the shot, you may be better off with a technical camera like an Alpa/Arca/Cambo - even if you pair it with a low resolution 22-30mp Phase One or Leaf back.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'd stick with a camera that you know how to use. Getting a medium format camera, learning that the lens you thought was right was not, and generally becoming expert with it is too much to absorb in three or four days.

Rent a heavy tripod, panorama head, or use a tilt-shift lens and you should get fantastic results. If the PP user is good, let him do the final stitching. I'd think that by having multiple images of the same subject, it would be easy to remove people or moving objects and paste in the area from a image where they were not there, or select a image to include in the stitching where the person had moved on. So many good possibilities.

 

[pdirestajr]

How about go totally crazy and rock one of those Sigma DP Merill cameras!

 

[emag]

OP, You posed a question to the forum to gain some insight / tips. I can't anything to what has already been stated....but....having seen Sporgon's work I'd be inclined to take his advice if I was in a similar situation. I've also played around with the technique Neuro mentioned, stitching shots taken with an ND10 filter to get rid of people. You have time to perfect these methods. Renting a camera system you're unfamiliar with for what is an important assignment seems to me akin to renting a stickshift with a worn clutch for one day in San Francisco.