Breaking down the latest Canon gear to appear for certification

jolyonralph

Kodak Brownie
Aug 25, 2015
1,109
332
50
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
No, EOS M line has never been really in question. Only some folks like Thom Hogan and a few n00bs who are unable or unwilling to understand Canon's transition from 2 mirrorslapper mounts (EF, EF-S) to 2 mirrorfree mounts (RF, EF-M).

EF-S is dead. EF is legacy. RF and EF-M will be around for many years to come.
Except that EF-S has been given a huge new boost of life with the EOS R camera. Those EF-S lenses happen to be the best value lenses for 4K video on the EOS R. Throw on a EF-S 10-18 and you can do some great wide angle 4K footage.

Can you use your EF-M 11-22 for 4K ultrawide recording? Nope. Not until Canon release a EOS M with full-width 4K.

EF-M has been sidelined and positioned clearly as low-end. There will never be an APS-C 7D-class EF-M mount camera.

I wouldn't rule out Canon launching an APS-C version of the EOS R to suit the 7D market (well, once they have a fast enough sensor) and even launching some RF-S lenses to suit it.

However.....
Remember the patent about exchangeable mounts? What if a future 7D class APS-C camera had interchangeable EF-M and RF mounts? I can't imagine it'd be cost-effective for Canon to do that but who knows...

EF is legacy. RF will be the semi-pro to professional mount, and EF-M will be relegated to low end. If you invest in the EF-M system you are stuck in it and won't be able to take advantage of RF lenses, nor will you be able to use your EF-M glass on a RF body, even one with an APS-C sensor. If you invest now in EF-S glass and use it with adaptors on your EF-M, your investment is far more safe, unfortunately.
 

HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
457
49
Unless there's a real shock coming I don't think Canon are able to compete with the A9 yet. No IBIS, sensor tech not yet close. Canon have some advantages, especially when it comes to DPAF, but I think an A9 or 1DX class mirrorless is a long way off..
===

Actually there is a Canon FF camera that just BLOWS AWAY the Sony A9!

The one I use for my stills during Sports, Wildlife and Action projects is Full Frame. Has a CONTINUOUS Burst rate of 60 FPS at full 4:4:4 RAW at 18+ megapixels for as along there is available storage medium. The sensor is BEAUTIFUL and has the utterly excellent DPAF and when I use the high end lenses has the most beautiful Bokeh! YES! It's a tad heavy and expensive when you fully kit it out but I'm used to that!

I say TRY the Canon C700 FF camera...one of top TWO best Stills Shooters out there! Only ONE other current production model camera can beat it and that manufacturer (Arri) has a camera that is TWICE the price (Alexa-65)!
 

Cryve

EOS 80D
Jul 4, 2018
108
70
Germany
There is NO WAY that the 32 mp camera is an aps-c camera. This is most certanly a full frame camera.

The other 24 mp cameras 435 and 436 could be the 80d replacement though, with a BSI sensor and 4k video features.
The 7d iii and the "90d" will share the same sensor, just as the 7d ii and the 70d did. Because of this, and because the 7diii
will prefer a lower mp count for faster fps sensor readout and better low light, it is highly likely that canon will only give us a 24 mp sensor for the 7d iii and 90d for economical and practial reasons.
 

jolyonralph

Kodak Brownie
Aug 25, 2015
1,109
332
50
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
===

Actually there is a Canon FF camera that just BLOWS AWAY the Sony A9!

The one I use for my stills during Sports, Wildlife and Action projects is Full Frame. Has a CONTINUOUS Burst rate of 60 FPS at full 4:4:4 RAW at 18+ megapixels for as along there is available storage medium. The sensor is BEAUTIFUL and has the utterly excellent DPAF and when I use the high end lenses has the most beautiful Bokeh! YES! It's a tad heavy and expensive when you fully kit it out but I'm used to that!

I say TRY the Canon C700 FF camera...one of top TWO best Stills Shooters out there! Only ONE other current production model camera can beat it and that manufacturer (Arri) has a camera that is TWICE the price (Alexa-65)!
Well, OK, I stand corrected in that :) But they certainly don't have this sensor capability scaled down in both dimensions and price for it to be suitable in a MILC yet.
 
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jolyonralph

Kodak Brownie
Aug 25, 2015
1,109
332
50
London, UK
www.everyothershot.com
There is NO WAY that the 32 mp camera is an aps-c camera. This is most certanly a full frame camera.
You're probably right. I think that it may actually end up being the 5D Mark V after all - because right now the 5D Mark IV is looking rather poor value against the EOS R, they're going to have to reduce the price on the 5D IV and that leaves a hole for a more profitable model.
 

siegsAR

EOS RP
Mar 5, 2013
216
7
Auckland
.... S n i p....

If you invest in the EF-M system you are stuck in it and won't be able to take advantage of RF lenses, nor will you be able to use your EF-M glass on a RF body, even one with an APS-C sensor. If you invest now in EF-S glass and use it with adaptors on your EF-M, your investment is far more safe, unfortunately.
This is how i see it on the EF-M side of things too, as someone who invested on it.
But it's success will lie on its perceived segmentation, this will be like EF-S was to EF BUT a lot less
flexible in terms of lens compatibility. Low end is a pretty strong word for a platform that will be
a favorite for consumers and a handy backup for prosumers.
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M2 + EOS M10
Feb 4, 2015
80
25
36
I expect Canon to grow the M series of bodies (and lenses, although not as much...) for many many years.

The Canon future is M for small-and-light APS-C shooters...and R for those who simply must have full frame (professionals and those who want to shoot like professionals!).
Seeing as we have two M bodies lined up for future release (according to certification list), I'm now curious as to what M lenses we can expect to come out in the future. Possibly faster zoom lenses? Longer telephoto lenses? Not really sure how many more prime lenses Canon would need to cover seeing as we already have one (or two if you count the 28mm macro) and the upcoming 32mm F/1.4.
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M2 + EOS M10
Feb 4, 2015
80
25
36
I think the release of the fastest APS-C lens in Canon's history is also testament to their continuing the M line. Hopefully they will soon announce the EF-M 53 f/1.8 IS...
I think so as well, and looking forward to new M lens announcements in the future :). BTW: A 53mm F/1.8 IS lens would be pretty interesting.
 

siegsAR

EOS RP
Mar 5, 2013
216
7
Auckland
Seeing as we have two M bodies lined up for future release (according to certification list), I'm now curious as to what M lenses we can expect to come out in the future. Possibly faster zoom lenses? Longer telephoto lenses? Not really sure how many more prime lenses Canon would need to cover seeing as we already have one (or two if you count the 28mm macro) and the upcoming 32mm F/1.4.
^ Since they legacied the 18-55, maybe they'll release a 15-85 like they have on EF-S.
My bet is on faster glass, whether primes or zooms(my bet is here).
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M2 + EOS M10
Feb 4, 2015
80
25
36
No, EOS M line has never been really in question. Only some folks like Thom Hogan and a few n00bs who are unable or unwilling to understand Canon's transition from 2 mirrorslapper mounts (EF, EF-S) to 2 mirrorfree mounts (RF, EF-M).

EF-S is dead. EF is legacy. RF and EF-M will be around for many years to come.
I know it was never really in question from Canon's end, but there were quite a few discussions about this right after the EOS R announcement. I agree that the EF-M mount was always positioned to replace the EF-S mount at some point. Small and lightweight mirrorless cameras sell quite well and the M100 and M50 are further proof of this. Hoping the M5 Mark II is also a big (if not bigger) hit :). Also, Canon needs to fill the M lens lineup a bit more, and maybe add an EF-M L lens or two into the mix.
 

bokehmon22

EOS RP
Oct 31, 2016
356
186
Unless there's a real shock coming I don't think Canon are able to compete with the A9 yet. No IBIS, sensor tech not yet close. Canon have some advantages, especially when it comes to DPAF, but I think an A9 or 1DX class mirrorless is a long way off..
I agree with you. I don't think Canon is capable of delivering A9 sensor yet, but I think 26 mpx might be the professional version of the EOS-R. Just a slightly faster EOS-R with dual card slot, 7-10 FPS, better eyeAF and maybe IBIS. It will still now be fast enough to replace 1DXII, but it's enough for most photographers to buy into the system

26mpx isn't bad for wedding/portrait works. Who knows, they might push it to 28-30mpx.

Didn't EOS-R was speculate to be around 24-28 mpx too and it turn out to be 30?
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M2 + EOS M10
Feb 4, 2015
80
25
36
^ Since they legacied the 18-55, maybe they'll release a 15-85 like they have on EF-S.
My bet is on faster glass, whether primes or zooms(my bet is here).
An 15-85mm would be a nice option between the more portable 15-45mm and longer reaching 18-150mm. Maybe with a variable aperture of F/2.8-5.6 throughout the zoom range. Possibly a constant F/4. Doubt they could pull off any EF-M zoom with a constant F/2 aperture. That is to say if Canon is even willing to go beyond the 61mm diameter size that all EF-M lenses have been so far.
 
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Mr Majestyk

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2016
183
73
It would be odd for the 5D class mirrorless to have a 6d Mark II size sensor and the 6D class to have a 5D Mark IV sensor :)

It makes sense if the "EOS Rx" is a more video-oriented camera, but I think it more likely based on resolution and time difference that this will be the 6D class camera and priced less than the EOS R
Unless the 26MP sensor has BSI and or is stacked design, much faster readout speed so desperately needed for DPAF. This could be a true A7III competitor. Then again knowing Canon it could be another ho-hum crippled camera.
 

Jethro

EOS R
Jul 14, 2018
252
126
My biggest thing now is just do I buy an EOS R today or wait and buy a 26 MP R+ tomorrow.

I suspect that I will be happier with the 26MP camera, and don't really want to end up with both.
This is indeed the question. But when will 'tomorrow' be?
 
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Aug 26, 2013
67
4
I'm thinking that there won't be a 7d mark iii.

Mirrorless is obviously where canon is heading with its lens development, except for the big primes. And if one can afford a big prime, I think canon might be happy with them also having to buy a 1dx-class ef-mount body. How many people really need 10fps, and who don't have the money for a 1dx mark II? Many in the fps crowd also have a 500, 600 or 200-400mm lens.

At the moment the 7dii makes a lot of sense with the 100-400, but how much money is canon going to make from that segment in the next 5 years? My hunch is that a lot of people in that segment also use their camera for other photography, and might like to put their cash towards a mirrorless camera to take advantage of the new lenses, too.
 

razorzec

700D
Sep 16, 2016
30
36
Mars
Will Zeiss commit to Canon RF?
There's nothing stopping Zeiss from supporting RF. the thing is they never made AF lenses for EF!

An Otus Prime that works for both Z and RF mount is not going to be far fetched. it will have the best image quality and will cost a fortune but that's what Zeiss has been for decades or even centuries.
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,084
380
I'm thinking that there won't be a 7d mark iii.

Mirrorless is obviously where canon is heading with its lens development, except for the big primes. And if one can afford a big prime, I think canon might be happy with them also having to buy a 1dx-class ef-mount body. How many people really need 10fps, and who don't have the money for a 1dx mark II? Many in the fps crowd also have a 500, 600 or 200-400mm lens.

At the moment the 7dii makes a lot of sense with the 100-400, but how much money is canon going to make from that segment in the next 5 years? My hunch is that a lot of people in that segment also use their camera for other photography, and might like to put their cash towards a mirrorless camera to take advantage of the new lenses, too.
and need the converter for their white teles in the process. If Canon makes a 7DIII much better than 7DII and close or even better to Nikon's D500 that's all it needs to make money.
And to get the same pixel density for birding they will either have to make a high mpixel FF (= very expensive relative to 7DIII) or a crop mirrorless where wait there is the M series for that...
 

pj1974

80D, M5, 7D, & lots of glass and accessories!
Oct 18, 2011
600
65
Adelaide, Australia
An 15-85mm would be a nice option between the more portable 15-45mm and longer reaching 18-150mm. Maybe with a variable aperture of F/2.8-5.6 throughout the zoom range. Possibly a constant F/4. Doubt they could pull off any EF-M zoom with a constant F/2 aperture. That is to say if Canon is even willing to go beyond the 61mm diameter size that all EF-M lenses have been so far.
I own the Canon EF-S 15-85mm USM IS lens, and it's a great range for a walkaround on my APS-C DSLRs (80D, 7D, etc)
I also own the M5 with 15-45mm - which is so lovely and compact, but yes, I really miss the reach. If Canon could produce a 15-85mm, at the same size as the 15-45mm - that would be IDEAL (even if it was f/6.3, I would live with that)... but I realise the laws of physics are probably against us! (but even if it was the size of the EF-M 18-55mm that would be NICE!).

I have the EF-M 22mm which is great as an ultra-compact street prime too. I have the 18-150mm which is very versatile, and great for travel, but yes, makes the camera so much longer / bigger package. Having said that, I do find having the EOS M5 with 18-150mm and the Samyang 12mm f/2 is a GREAT versatile 2 lens travel package... very capable for a lot of situations (even night / astro-photography). IBIS for the M5ii would be killer!!!! :)