Camera Body Breakdown [CR1]

[macfly]

Thanks kubelik, the Mila pix were all with the EOS, none of the Nikon work is published yet, so I can't put it up yet, but the difference really is startling. The Nikon genuinely is blowing my mind and opening creative possibilities I never thought I'd ever see in terms of image capture and quality in low light. When I rent it for the shoot on Saturday I'll make sure to do some side by sides to show you guys. I'll keep it to the 135mm f2 lenses as they are both excellent, and just do 800/1600/2400/5000 ISO

 

[Stuart]

Its a CR1!
a 600D before a 7dMk2 - only if they reuse the 18M sensor a 4th time. if so maybe they want to add the 60 flip screen and movie mode AF to deal with panasonic.

Or If the 600D has say a 22MP sensor with good iSo then i'd be interested (in the iSo) but the only reason i'd expected this to be before the 7d is that a digic 5 processor was unavailable in the near time frame.

Maybe they want to catch up on the ISO front and go down to 16Mpixels for smaller files too - but they have not done thi before.
Anyway its CR1 speculation.

 

[kubelik]

Thanks kubelik, the Mila pix were all with the EOS, none of the Nikon work is published yet, so I can't put it up yet, but the difference really is startling. The Nikon genuinely is blowing my mind and opening creative possibilities I never thought I'd ever see in terms of image capture and quality in low light. When I rent it for the shoot on Saturday I'll make sure to do some side by sides to show you guys. I'll keep it to the 135mm f2 lenses as they are both excellent, and just do 800/1600/2400/5000 ISO

very much looking forward to seeing that

 

[KyleSTL]

The only precedent Canon has for stepping down in resolution is the Powershot G10 -> G11 (14.7MP vs. 10MP). As far as lifecycle goes, the 5D Mark II has another 300-some days to match the life of the original 5D. But, there is the caveat that the 5D was released 11 months after 1Ds Mark II and 5D Mark II was released 13 months after 1Ds Mark III. I think we're in for a changing of lifecycles with this next batch of cameras. Check out this thread for the analysis on previous lifecycles: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,333.msg4550.html#msg4550
and
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,333.msg4869.html#msg4869

BTW, macfly, I checked out your website. Some awesome celebs you've shot. Heidi Klum, Charlize Theron, Ed Norton. Jealous.... Awesome work.

 

[kubelik]

a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition. things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.

 

[Admin US West]

a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition. things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.

I'm sure that manufacturers would like this, however, there is always the competition to deal with. If the competition adds a new model with more bells and whistles, then you have to match or lose sales. Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante, so Canon is free to take their time. Introduction of a new model can be a very expensive thing, particularly if it involves a new sensor.

 

[Stuart]

With the Bells and whistles being differentatiors, the market is open for a module based approach where you buy a base level body then add modules in hardware or software as you need them.

Sensors are the main differentatiors and exceed the limits of much of the glass used. So expect better dynamic range, ISO performance, global shutter, etc to keep driving sensor performance.

 

[macfly]

scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.

 

[Sinsear]

Introduction of a new model can be a very expensive thing, particularly if it involves a new sensor.

That's clearly not a problem for a big company like Canon. Just look at Intel, they spend billions and billions to upgrade their manufacturing processes when switching to a new architecture for their chips.

 

[Sinsear]

a question that's been bouncing around in my mind is, are we going to get to some critical point where traditional digital update cycles have a paradigm shift and move into longer replacement timelines, maybe 4-5 years instead of 2-3?

in the first decade of digital camera technology, we saw huge jumps in capability every two years, which warranted tight refresh cycles to stay ahead of the competition. things appear to be leveling out for all the major manufacturers right now, however -- I know none of the cameras on market can be described as "perfect" but there definitely seems to be diminishing returns with every cycle of updates.

more AF points, more FPS, more or less pixels, weathersealing, viewfinders ... all of these sort of have a max-out point and we seem to be getting pretty close to it.

The only thing I can think of that isn't hitting a "max-out point" is the processor and storage medium. Someday, I want to be able to burst 120fps continuous for an indefinite amount of time.

 

[Sinsear]

It doesn't look like Canon is planning on introducing anything to compete with the Nikon D3s at low light levels. I just took some pictures of Yuletide reenactors at a local historical village/museum, in a room lit with 3 candles, that's it, 3 frigging candles. A typical exposure was 1/15 sec and f/1.4 at ISO3200. Image quality as good as the D3s at ISO51200 would get me to 1/60 sec and f/2.8 and allow me to use my 24-70 and 17-35 zoom lenses.

Is anybody at Canon listening?

I don't think Canon is, but I certainly am.

 

[KyleSTL]

scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.

To be fair, though, the 1Ds Mark III vs. D3s is one fight between the two that Nikon is clearly dominating by a wide margin.

Here is my take on the other matchups:
draw D3000 and Rebel XS (1000D)
D3100 over T1i (500D)
T2i (550D) over D90
draw D7000 and 60D (different approaches, but worthy competitors)
7D over D300s
D700 over 5D Mark II (although very close, and very different approaches)
D3s over 1D Mark IV (price competitors)
D3s over 1Ds Mark III (form-factor competitors, but again very different)
1Ds Mark III over D3x (slightly)

So [in my opinion] Nikon has a 4-3-2 lead over Canon. But at the top, I would give Nikon the advantage. I will follow up my analysis stating I haven't used the vast majority of the current cameras, but it my research online regarding general reviews and overall image quality this is how I see the shaking out.

 

[ptk]

Admin, if you have some free time (and rumors are slow like they are now) could you put together a list of quotes from the "THERE WILL BE NO 60D!" people? I think it'd be very amusing as well as relevant since we're now seeing some people claiming the merging of the 1D and 1Ds lines as well as other things.

 

[niko]

scalesusa, you say that "Right now, Nikon has not uped the ante"

This can only mean you are not working with these two side by side, Nikon has left the EOS 1Ds MkIII for dead with the D3s. I can promise you Nikon are blowing Canon away right now. The quality, the low light ability, the incredible ability to run tethered shooting bursts of 30+ frames non stop with Capture One, and the amazingly sharp glass.

The difference is as great as the one Canon made with the original EOS 1 which got me, and everyone else, to sell my slow and awkward F4 and make the switch to Canon.

The appaling mess of the G12, which I hate, after the G10, which i loved, has really put me on alert that Canon may well have lost the plot, and not be listening to people who work with the things everyday.

To be fair, though, the 1Ds Mark III vs. D3s is one fight between the two that Nikon is clearly dominating by a wide margin.

Here is my take on the other matchups:
draw D3000 and Rebel XS (1000D)
D3100 over T1i (500D)
T2i (550D) over D90
draw D7000 and 60D (different approaches, but worthy competitors)
7D over D300s
D700 over 5D Mark II (although very close, and very different approaches)
D3s over 1D Mark IV (price competitors)
D3s over 1Ds Mark III (form-factor competitors, but again very different)
1Ds Mark III over D3x (slightly)

So [in my opinion] Nikon has a 4-3-2 lead over Canon. But at the top, I would give Nikon the advantage. I will follow up my analysis stating I haven't used the vast majority of the current cameras, but it my research online regarding general reviews and overall image quality this is how I see the shaking out.

Nikon clearly has the edge in terms of low light performance currently, however the 1Ds III was never meant to compete with a D3s as that camera came out much later.

Judging by the rumors around the 5d II announcement, I believe that Canon had the technology to release a camera with excellent AF and ISO performance based on the 19 point AF and a lower MP sensor, however Canon underestimated the push by Nikon to gain market share and chose to a different route instead. I expect Canon to address the shortcomings (both real or perceived) in the next gen cameras.

 

[c.d.embrey]

I know you guys will hate me saying this, but for the 7th job in a row I'm renting the Nikon D3s because it is just so much nicer on skin, especially at low light, than my old 1Ds Mklll. I also am blown away by how much crisper their 24-70 zoom is. I thought they'd never equal Canon again, but right now they really have stolen a march on Canon.

If Canon don't get their act together soon, and at least let us know when the 1Ds MklV is coming I'm jumping ship, and going back to Nikon altogether, (after exactly 20 years!) because a year of renting just isn't worth doing waiting and hoping Canon will introduce a camera that may never appear!

mac, I don't think anyone can fault you with wanting to go back to nikon, especially given that you're actually making a living off of your equipment. I'm intrigued that you see such a huge difference between the canon and nikon systems in how they render skin tone, but I've heard it from others ... guess something I'm not seeing in the files.

really great work! the shot of mila kunis you have on your page really is, as you said, stunning (although I know you were talking about the actress rather than the photo)

If I use it regularly I own it. If I use it occasionally I rent it. That just makes good economic sense.

It sounds like you should have bought that Nikon D3s a long time ago.

BTW this isn't Canon bashing ... it's just admitting that, for some people, Nikon has regained the lead in Pro Cameras and Lenses.

 

[Macadameane]

I know this is OT, but shouldn't this thread be in "EOS Bodies" ?

 

[infrahead]

Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?

 

[Etienne]

I hope Canon steps up their game with the 5DIII in 2011. They need an all-round convincing FF in a small body with top-notch video features. If it wasn't for my interest in video I would have bought the D700 over my 5DII.

I think Canon dropped the ball with the 60D. I'm looking for a second body that can do video, but even with my canon L lenses I'm inclined to buy a Panasonic GH2, a pancake and the 7-14mm f4. It looks like Panasonic has set the standard for video in compact cameras now with the GH2. Full reviews will tell the whole story, but initial looks are pretty convincing so far, and in a much smaller package. Canon should have improved the video AF, and included full res hdmi out on record with the 60D. Now the GH2 is a much more attractive option, unless you need that body primarily for stills.

If the 5DIII doesn't beat Nikon's D700 replacement at least in Photography (low light, AF, build quality, responsiveness), I'll probably jump ship to Nikon, and use the Panasonic for video.

 

[Admin US West]

Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?

The S95 just came out. There might be another next fall. I did not like my S90 due to its small buttons, but that works well for many.

 

[infrahead]

Concerning "PowerShot The usual upgrades can be expected to start in late January. I’ve received nothing out of the ordinary."
I'm thinking of buying the Powershot S95. Should I hold off for a while?

The S95 just came out. There might be another next fall. I did not like my S90 due to its small buttons, but that works well for many.

Thanks!

I actually bought the panny LX5, but returned it 'cause it wasn't really pocketable = it won't fit easily in a jeans/shirt pocket. Otherwise I liked it, and it's in many ways a superior camera compared to the S95.
But now I'm going for the S95 since I'll be able to have it with me everywhere.