Canon’s EOS-1D X Mark II equivalent mirrorless is coming sooner than originally thought [CR1]

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,137
2,066
All adapters will affect the mounting of a lens on one body relative to how it would mount to another.

Most combinations will be acceptable for photography. Those which are not are outliers. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if the current eos r cameras have AFMA but that it’s not user accessible. View attachment 185243
The x-axis is in standard deviations from the mean. I'll take a bet that the Canon standard deviations are much less than the Chinese knock-offs and most will be within spec. But some of those knock offs that are not even outliers will cause problems. There was post that 20µ difference could be noticeable but I am not going to hunt through the posts for it.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,953
330
The x-axis is in standard deviations from the mean. I'll take a bet that the Canon standard deviations are much less than the Chinese knock-offs and most will be within spec. But some of those knock offs that are not even outliers will cause problems. There was post that 20µ difference could be noticeable but I am not going to hunt through the posts for it.
I’d bet it’s measureable. Noticeable becomes a qualitative assessment.
 

sdz

EOS 80D
Sep 13, 2016
156
85
Pittsburgh, PA
I just hope Canon doesn't rush out a half baked idea that was put out just to say they have one. I would rather see a later truly pro camera that puts the competition back to the stone age as the EOS system did 30+ years ago. It has taken this long for the competition to catch up to the EOS and now an incremental lame introduction just is not going to impress. It must be hyper fast, full frame 8K at 120p with no crop or line skipping as Nikon and Sony do to make the FF claim. In other words skip the lame 4K, that train has left the station, move on to a blow them away 8K that is not dumbed down and the still frame rate is second to none by a good margin. No rolling shutter issues either. Minimum stills at 50 MP for this camera and DR at 25 stops. Canon has all these capabilities now they just refuse to incorporate them into their regular camera lines {emphasis added}.
Canon may not have the technology needed to accomplish these goals. If they do not have it, then they are not refusing to provide it. They cannot provide it.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
2,953
330
At this point Canon cannot just equal the competition. It must excel and beat the competition demonstrably. Otherwise they are just playing catch-up and the next sonikon will just leave it in the dust playing perpetual catch-up.
Canon-centric sites often label the competition as Sonikon. Sony-centric sites often label it as Canikon. What do nikon-centric sites call it? Canny? Sonon? Sonosonic? Either way it’s dumb. Stop.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
995
462
I did not in that post claim anything about the adapter mount, so I don't know why you brought it up.
A tilt induced by an adapter will affect the phase detect AF, and would require AFMA even for mirrorless (contrast-based AF is relatively less affected).
Pick one.

I just pointed out that AFMA can be required to correct for tilt etc of the lens relative to the on-sensor AF.
No, you did not say "can be required". You said "would require". Such a claim needs the numbers to defend.

If you want me to say something about an adapter, I will do. It's not a question about being "essentially the same stuff", it's the standard problem of propagation of error when combining more than one component: if there is an error of tilt angle of the lens flange of e1 and that of the adapter front surface of e2 and of the rear surface e3, then the errors will sum as e(total) = sqrt(e1^2 + e2^2 + e3^2). On average, the overall tilt angle increases as more components are added, and in some rarer cases there will be compensation.
And what is the threshold value for e(total) where AFMA starts to be required for DPAF, and to which tilt angle value does it correspond?

The x-axis is in standard deviations from the mean. I'll take a bet that the Canon standard deviations are much less than the Chinese knock-offs and most will be within spec. But some of those knock offs that are not even outliers will cause problems. There was post that 20µ difference could be noticeable but I am not going to hunt through the posts for it.
Inabilitiy to keep the whole flat chart in focus by a tilted lens has nothing to do with autofocus and cannot be fixed with AFMA.
 
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sdz

EOS 80D
Sep 13, 2016
156
85
Pittsburgh, PA
If you look at some of their industrial products they are amazing. Check it out.
I have looked at the industrial products. But these sensors need not provide a platform for a consumer/professional camera. A camera would have ergonomic requirements that industrial imagers would not have. Cooling would also be easier to control on an industrial camera than it would on DSLR/ML cameras.

Canon, sadly, lags behind Sony in sensor development. Canon News has this evaluation of the situation:

The author also felt that Canon was “holding back” that they should have simply put better technology into their cameras. While it would be wonderful if Canon had the best technology in the business, the current state is that they are behind. Their sensor readout speeds are slower, and their processors are struggling with the increased workload that mirrorless demands. My belief is that we will see Canon move forward, possibly quickly, however, it will be most likely based upon when they have faster DIGIC processors available to work with. Not to mention new sensor designs such as stacked sensors.
 
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amorse

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2017
348
300
www.flickr.com
It will be interesting. They cannot measure up but must substantially exceed as Sony has rhe MII version ready to go so canon is obliged to exceed that as well.
I don't know, I think Canon is going to release something they think is competitive for the expected potential buyers and may not concern themselves on whether or not it meets/exceeds some/all of the a9II's specifications.

Different users have different needs, and for many users the specs race which is so frequently touted on forums and blogs is largely irrelevant. The bottom line is the mirrorless 1Dx equivalent camera probably doesn't need to beat the a9ii in specs, it just needs to convince current 1Dxii users that it will get the job done with the same reliability that the 1Dxii had. Make no mistake, that's not a small feat. Just because one body has better performance on paper doesn't mean people will transition in droves or else we'd already have seen people give up on the 1Dxii a long time ago. As with all things though, time will tell!
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,155
1,430
It will be interesting. They cannot measure up but must substantially exceed as Sony has rhe MII version ready to go so canon is obliged to exceed that as well.
Sony’s specs have exceeded Canon’s for years...over which time Sony failed to capture ILC market share from Canon. But hey, maybe the next time Newton lets an apple go, it will float up.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,137
2,066
Pick one.


No, you did not say "can be required". You said "would require". Such a claim needs the numbers to defend.


And what is the threshold value for e(total) where AFMA starts to be required for DPAF, and to which tilt angle value does it correspond?


Inabilitiy to keep the whole flat chart in focus by a tilted lens has nothing to do with autofocus and cannot be fixed with AFMA.
I am interested in the general theory about on-sensor AFMA and its limitations, and how it will affect my photography. Here are some good articles of how PDAF actually works and on-sensor limitations: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/understanding.autofocus/ and https://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/101335/does-on-sensor-phase-detection-autofocus-need-adjustment-for-accuracy

PD uses phases from opposite sides of the lens, and these may be affected by aberrations of the lens and differences in path length because of mechanical errors. On-sensor PDAF requires contrast detection or its equivalent for final accuracy: PD instructs the direction of movement focus of the lens, CD or (Canon's DP equivalent) then nails the focus. In the absence of CD, on-sensor PD is more accurate than DSLR PD, but the errors are reduced and may not necessarily be eliminated.

Read this to see how AFMA can still be necessary if you are not convinced: https://eduardolibby.com/2018/12/22/nikons-z7-requires-af-fine-tuning/ ("The claims that on-sensor phase-detection autofocus sensors in Nikon’s Z7 does away with autofocus fine-tuning are wrong. I had to use AF Fine Tuning to get my lenses to focus properly.")
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
422
388
Maybe I'm being naive, but I believe what really matters for a body in the EOS 1 category, is less to "beat" Sony in specs, but in reliability and professionality (handling, menu, colors,sealing).
High fps. and AF are of course not to be neglected, and I'm quite confident, Canon will once again succeed! (Or, is there any more reliable camera than the EOS 1?, certainly not from ...)
 
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jonebize

I'm New Here
Dec 15, 2018
24
19
If I buy a tough body like 1DX, I want it to work under every condition. An adapter is a liability. You won't understand this if you don't push your kit to its limits.
You're talking for shooting sports? I'd be curious to hear what it's like to push it to the limits.
 

Hallvardk

I'm New Here
Apr 10, 2014
9
2
I've shot professionally with 1DX2 for the last 3 years, making a living shooting action sports in the Arctic; both photo and video. I also own Canon cinema gear and quite some lenses.

Adapters: Hate 'em, but will use them if absolutely needed. I'd pay another $1-2 if it would mean that I got rid of it. If something breaks on a shoot you need a replacement, which is expensive and not always easy to find. I'm hesitant to carry 3-4-5 adapters to fit all lenses.

For a 1DX3, mirrorless or not, it would first of all be as good as the mark 2, but then add something that would make it financially reasonable to buy it for. 10 bit 422 internal, 8K external, log, double battery life, 40 MP. Something in that range. I don't care about 5 more MP or 2 fps more, and I don't think any other pro does either. The camera needs to bring in jobs or take over for other existing gear to make sense.

Canon are workhorses. Yes, reliability is the main point with the 1D line to me and many of my colleagues, and I don't really care what Sony is doing until they fix sealing, battery stuff and the good ol' ergonomics.
 
May 30, 2019
8
6
Sony’s specs have exceeded Canon’s for years...over which time Sony failed to capture ILC market share from Canon. But hey, maybe the next time Newton lets an apple go, it will float up.
But in the past Sony did not have much if any glass that was competitive with Canon, that is changing. The G Masters are really nice lenses. I still do not see most Canon users jumping ship. But the ones that do are enjoying the benefits that Sony already brought to market. That is more fun than coming to CR daily hoping the next release will be the one they have been waiting for. They must have the technology, but I see the problem with Canon is too many lines have power over one another. Every camera seems to be limited in some way. Most are awesome, but missing something that is available in another line. Unless they revamp the entire way to do their business, we will see more of the same. Luckily the lenses don't work that way.
 
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